Is The MG Tush Push Better Than The Stanley Sneak?

[HawkeyeHypnosis]

You are wrong.

Not surprising. When I was skimming something it had a mistype. Said it was average when he had a 7 yard carry.

 

[99topdawg]

Better than Yanda in your opinion? Talking NFL...

Yanda was a beast and my kind of lineman. Haven't really watched Linderbaum in the NFL, so I really can't say, but it would be tough to top what Yanda did. Yanda should/will be in the HOF, even though he was a guard. Linderbaum was a Pro Bowl center and I don't doubt he'll be all-pro multiple times. Yanda was 2 time 1st team all pro and 5 times on the 2nd team. That will be tough to top.

In short, I haven't watched them enough to say for sure. A couple of incredible ass kickers for sure.

 

[HawkeyeTech]

Gronowski rarely gets more than a yard on sneaks. Stanley regularly got 3-4 yards, sometimes more. There's no comparison. Hating Brian Ferentz isn't a reason to disrespect Stanley.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Stanley's TP was definitively more impressive. Lindy was an alltimer and Stanley was a bull. That was unstoppable. MG doesn't get the same push, but it is still effective.

The TP should be banned for three reasons:

1. Its not an American football play. It is a rugby play and I don't like rugby. It was illegal for many years and should be again.
2. You cannot officiate it properly. Everyone is offsides, the OL usually takes off early, you can't find the ball, you have no way to know when forward progress stops. All of this is because this is not an American football play. In rugby, none of that shit matters.
3. Its ugly and dumb looking. Some teams run it 6 7 times a game.

That all said, I am only in favor of tweaking the rule so that you cannot line up right behind the QB and push him in as part of the play design. Anyone who is lined up at least two yards behind the QB can run up and push the pile.

I think pushing and pulling a runner down the field as part of an organic effort to aid the runner, as opposed to a called and designed play, should remain legal as well.

 

[Fryowa]

Stanley's TP was definitively more impressive. Lindy was an alltimer and Stanley was a bull. That was unstoppable. MG doesn't get the same push, but it is still effective.

The TP should be banned for three reasons:

1. Its not an American football play. It is a rugby play and I don't like rugby. It was illegal for many years and should be again.
2. You cannot officiate it properly. Everyone is offsides, the OL usually takes off early, you can't find the ball, you have no way to know when forward progress stops. All of this is because this is not an American football play. In rugby, none of that shit matters.
3. Its ugly and dumb looking. Some teams run it 6 7 times a game.

That all said, I am only in favor of tweaking the rule so that you cannot line up right behind the QB and push him in as part of the play design. Anyone who is lined up at least two yards behind the QB can run up and push the pile.

I think pushing and pulling a runner down the field as part of an organic effort to aid the runner, as opposed to a called and designed play, should remain legal as well.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

You so get me, Fry.

 

[Fryowa]

You so get me, Fry.

Don't worry, I think the DH rule should be outlawed.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Don't worry, I think the DH rule should be outlawed.

I have a compromise on the DH rule. Allow the DH, but for every 3 games as a DH, the player has to play one on the field. They said that Big Papi didn't even own a baseball glove. That doesn't sit right with me. So, make them play a little in the field, while still avoiding the automatic out when the pitcher comes up.

 

[Fryowa]

I have a compromise on the DH rule. Allow the DH, but for every 3 games as a DH, the player has to play one on the field. They said that Big Papi didn't even own a baseball glove. That doesn't sit right with me. So, make them play a little in the field, while still avoiding the automatic out when the pitcher comes up.

Make it one of the following two options and we have a deal:

1) Cannot play 1B, or

2) Every other game instead of every 3 games.

 

[ShemHawk]

Stanley's TP was definitively more impressive. Lindy was an alltimer and Stanley was a bull. That was unstoppable. MG doesn't get the same push, but it is still effective.

The TP should be banned for three reasons:

1. Its not an American football play. It is a rugby play and I don't like rugby. It was illegal for many years and should be again.
2. You cannot officiate it properly. Everyone is offsides, the OL usually takes off early, you can't find the ball, you have no way to know when forward progress stops. All of this is because this is not an American football play. In rugby, none of that shit matters.
3. Its ugly and dumb looking. Some teams run it 6 7 times a game.

That all said, I am only in favor of tweaking the rule so that you cannot line up right behind the QB and push him in as part of the play design. Anyone who is lined up at least two yards behind the QB can run up and push the pile.

I think pushing and pulling a runner down the field as part of an organic effort to aid the runner, as opposed to a called and designed play, should remain legal as well.

#2 is a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

If teams want to run the tush push, let's get rid of forward progress. If the entire offense can propel the ball carrier forward, let the entire defense carry his a$$ 10 yards into the backfield and spot the ball there. Let's even it out and see how long teams want the tush push around.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Make it one of the following two options and we have a deal:

1) Cannot play 1B, or

2) Every other game instead of every 3 games.

Come on, you know the old saying: "fat kid who can hit? Put him at First Base."

I am good with every other game. I have never liked professional DHers. That is not a baseball player, that is a baseball hitter. But, I like the DH rule to spur more offense. There is definitely a compromise to be had.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Did you guys see the Vikings tried a strategy of laying a guy sideways in front of the center to prevent the interior line from being the lowest? It kind of worked.

This whole situation remains baffling to me. The play is:

1. Boring in that it is almost always successful, even outside of Philly. Recall that the NFL moved the extra point back because it was a non-competitive play from the 2.
2. It is largely unpopular with fans because it is ugly and a non-competitive play. Sort of like touchbacks on every kickoff until they changed the rule two years ago and tweaked it again this year to force action.
3. It puts some of the biggest stars in the game at THE most important position in the middle of a highly physical play surrounded by a couple tons of humanity. Almost every rule change for a generation has tried to put a virtual bubble around the QB.

How this play remains legal is a mystery. I suspect this is its last season.

 

[Fryowa]

How this play remains legal is a mystery. I suspect this is its last season.

Nah, fans love it. Any press is good press in the NFL.

Defenses in NFL and college will adapt eventually like they do anything else. Wildcat was the hot thing for a while and now it's not really a thing anymore because DCs found ways to defend it. It's one of the things about football I like, since the 40s it's been a cat and mouse game between OCs and DCs to come up with something new every 5 or 10 years and then it's on to the next. You have to adapt constantly because the next new shiny offensive scheme is right around the corner. The only thing offensively that's ever stuck around in football for decades has been West Coast.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Nah, fans love it. Any press is good press in the NFL.

Defenses in NFL and college will adapt eventually like they do anything else. Wildcat was the hot thing for a while and now it's not really a thing anymore because DCs found ways to defend it. It's one of the things about football I like, since the 40s it's been a cat and mouse game between OCs and DCs to come up with something new every 5 or 10 years and then it's on to the next. You have to adapt constantly because the next new shiny offensive scheme is right around the corner. The only thing offensively that's ever stuck around in football for decades has been West Coast.

Let's put a pin in this and we can virtually wager what happens in the offseason. I predict the rules will be tweaked to ban or curtail the TP in its current form. You believe it will stand. One of us can eat crow in a few months. Caw!!!

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Maybe defensive players should be allowed to try to dislodge the football or relocate the ball carrier behind the line of scrimmage for 25 seconds after the play is first whistled dead. So you have the initial whistle, and then a 25 second clock starts where defensive players get a second shot. They can pile on, rip at the ball, drag the QB back by the ankles if they can get to him, etc. No head shots or biting. That period only ends after 25 seconds. Spice things up a bit.

 

[dagdaj]

I love that this thread has devolved into overanalysis of a decided silly play.
Allow me to over-over-analyze. Because I love over-analyzing.
We're rather happy at the moment. We've got a team that shows some offensive life for the first time in over a half a decade. We're not the butt of jokes. Even when we were the butt of jokes, our team still managed to win quite a few. But, we were so demoralized and hopeless at times. We'd been through "if we just had an average offense we could win some serious games". And year after year, it got WORSE.

Yet, here we are. Debating the relative success of designed 1 yard plays. Not insignificant plays. But it's not like we have anything stellar to work with other than a few fairly nice long passes and some great YAC.

We're not bemoaning a QB that looks helpless. An offense that looks anemic beyond a runningback who has some pop or some pretty amazing tight ends. There's some life here.

But, we're all still a bit leery. We aren't debating if Gronowski is a great quarterback. Or if this o-line is one of the best ever. We probably all agree that it's all fairly good. Certainly not enough to a natty, but enough to make us pretty happy if all goes well. There's still a lot of wait and see. We are some of the most gunshy fans in college football at the moment. This is what 6-7 years of thinking "it can only get better"....when in reality it only got worse.

Also, I love that it somehow got to the DH debate. Just like the Minnesota announcer Blazing Saddles reference lead us to ice fishing.

You guys are the best. This board rocks. I keep trying to explain to my sports loving messageboarding son that I don't want to be on one of the big-ass boards where people argue over meaningless crap and never talk about ice fishing. FTR....I've never been ice fishing. I'm not a fisherman in any way. I just like that's where a conversation wanders to.

 

[Hawkboys]

Solution - never let your opponents cross the 50.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I love that this thread has devolved into overanalysis of a decided silly play.
Allow me to over-over-analyze. Because I love over-analyzing.
We're rather happy at the moment. We've got a team that shows some offensive life for the first time in over a half a decade. We're not the butt of jokes. Even when we were the butt of jokes, our team still managed to win quite a few. But, we were so demoralized and hopeless at times. We'd been through "if we just had an average offense we could win some serious games". And year after year, it got WORSE.

Yet, here we are. Debating the relative success of designed 1 yard plays. Not insignificant plays. But it's not like we have anything stellar to work with other than a few fairly nice long passes and some great YAC.

We're not bemoaning a QB that looks helpless. An offense that looks anemic beyond a runningback who has some pop or some pretty amazing tight ends. There's some life here.

But, we're all still a bit leery. We aren't debating if Gronowski is a great quarterback. Or if this o-line is one of the best ever. We probably all agree that it's all fairly good. Certainly not enough to a natty, but enough to make us pretty happy if all goes well. There's still a lot of wait and see. We are some of the most gunshy fans in college football at the moment. This is what 6-7 years of thinking "it can only get better"....when in reality it only got worse.

Also, I love that it somehow got to the DH debate. Just like the Minnesota announcer Blazing Saddles reference lead us to ice fishing.

You guys are the best. This board rocks. I keep trying to explain to my sports loving messageboarding son that I don't want to be on one of the big-ass boards where people argue over meaningless crap and never talk about ice fishing. FTR....I've never been ice fishing. I'm not a fisherman in any way. I just like that's where a conversation wanders to.

This made me chuckle in a good way. Thanks for putting in the time on that post.