Odds of societal collapse in US...

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

The increases in tuition and fees is the problem. But. The solution is for State legislatures to resume the support and funding they have chipped away for decades. The dependence on more loans is the result of the hatred the Republican Party has for public schools at the secondary and post secondary levels, while they siphon billions to private institutions. I have seen it up close and personal and have heard the voices of the Repubs confirm my views.

NB: Have not had time to look at the article you mention. Will try later.

You think the main cause of tuition at universities rising... Is republicans pulling funding?

 

[Gibsonian]

I don’t think so. I know so.

In Iowa we now provide funding to private schools. It takes funding away from out public schools and there is near zero oversight of these private schools. It’s law provided by Republicans

 

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

I don’t think so. I know so.

I guess you’d also know how that’s causing tuition to rise in blue states as well.

 

[HuckFinn]

I guess you’d also know how that’s causing tuition to rise in blue states as well.

I don’t have a handle on every State.

 

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

I don’t have a handle on every State.

Weird that you only have a handle on the red ones. Well, good luck with all that knowledge.

 

[Gibsonian]

There is plenty of evidence that private institutions are being funded more and more over public schools wherever there is GOP majority. For whatever reason this is the direction of the GOP. What is the mystery here?

 

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

The mystery is that Labas thinks he is an expert in school finance because he read an article that fit his narrative.

You have some shockingly poor reading comprehension skills for a retired high school English teacher and Ph.D.

It's questionable that you think your experience as a local high school educator is informative of the situation in higher education, and rather disturbing that you've never heard of The Closing of the American Mind. I would hope you would hold your former students to a higher standard of critical thinking. I mean, your entire argument rests on an argument to authority, in which you yourself are the authority. Did you use self-citations in your dissertation as well?

It's unfortunate that you've engaged with what I've said at such an elementary level that you are still calling an incredibly influential book an "article." The book isn't even about school finance.

The point of my raising this book was in response to your claims about attacks on academic freedom. I'd really encourage you to read the book, though I don't expect you to gain much from it given your extreme distain for right-leaning individuals. IMO, the far more damaging trend in academic freedom is the complete closing out of right-leaning thinkers in higher education.

I understand you have intense political biases. They are totally clouding your judgement here. Nationwide increases in tuition at public colleges are not principally caused by Republican funding cuts. I'd encourage you to reread our discourse here. Market forces, including the Federal Student Aid program, ballooning administrative salaries and staffs, and political biases in hiring are all vastly more impactful to trends in higher education. I've linked this to problems with academic freedom more generally. These are the claims I would've like you to engage with, but you were more interested in going on a tirade about your own illustrious career in K-12 education.

I would however like to thank you for you service in K-12 education. It's genuinely admirable. I have a few long-tenured public educators in Iowa in my immediate family.

Buzz off, Labas...
If you ever want to engage in a discussion on this topic, I will be happy to supply you with more information than you can likely absorb. You read a simple source written by someone and now you are an expert on school finance encompassing the entire Country. Neither you nor I have a clue about that topic. So don’t insult me with your assumptions.

Youch. I am not going to engage in any further elder abuse here.

I am going to eject for now since you'd rather argue in bad faith and just insert your bias than have an actual discussion or seek alternative opinions, which is not a big deal. We are shooting the shit on a sports message board, after all.

 

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

Buzz off, Labas. I told you where I was coming from. I talked about the two states, Iowa and Wisconsin, where I spent 40 years as a public school employee at levels from HS English teacher to the Superintendency. Just so you will know, I have a Doctorate in School Finance and School Law. Worked with the Iowa State legislature with the VP for Finance at the U of I, Dr. George Chambers, on school finance issues.
...
If you ever want to engage in a discussion on this topic, I will be happy to supply you with more information than you can likely absorb. You read a simple source written by someone and now you are an expert on school finance encompassing the entire Country. Neither you nor I have a clue about that topic. So don’t insult me with your assumptions.

I'd be interested in reading your dissertation. I assure you; I am capable of absorbing whatever it is you wrote.

 

[thedukeofearl]

An strange deep-sea fish washed up on the Oregon shore recently, but it didn't surprise the fish nerds at the Seaside Aquarium.

The crew at the aquarium were familiar with the fish, which had fanged teeth within a wide mouth and measured nearly 5 feet long, as a longnose lancetfish. Known to swim as deep as over a mile below the ocean's surface, lancetfish typically live in warmer waters, but do migrate as far north as the Bering Sea, according to the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration.

Damn...

 

[thedukeofearl]

Florida woman poses as ICE agent, kidnaps ex's wife

From USA Today, got a 6-month online subscription for One Dollar, do the crossword every day

Fun Crossword, fills in the correct letters which makes it a bit easier, also has timer to determine
how inept one is...

 

[thedukeofearl]

Societal Collapse, for certain

Alabama woman faces charges for running over father of her kids
According to the Birmingham Police Department, 30-year-old Shatice Jackson was charged with capital murder in connection with the death of Mickese Bostic, who was killed on April 20.

Witnesses told police that Jackson ran over Bostic, "causing the vehicle to collide with him and his neighbor's house," the press release stated.

WBRC and WBMA reported that Bostic, 27, was between the car and the home. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Happened on Easter Sunday

Damn

 

[HuckFinn]

View attachment 11443

An strange deep-sea fish washed up on the Oregon shore recently, but it didn't surprise the fish nerds at the Seaside Aquarium.

The crew at the aquarium were familiar with the fish, which had fanged teeth within a wide mouth and measured nearly 5 feet long, as a longnose lancetfish. Known to swim as deep as over a mile below the ocean's surface, lancetfish typically live in warmer waters, but do migrate as far north as the Bering Sea, according to the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration.

Damn...

EEeeK

 

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

Florida woman poses as ICE agent, kidnaps ex's wife

From USA Today, got a 6-month online subscription for One Dollar, do the crossword every day

Fun Crossword, fills in the correct letters which makes it a bit easier, also has timer to determine
how inept one is...

It was only a matter of time. ICE just showing up and throwing folks into the back of cars is a really troubling trend. 5-10 years or so back, I met this guy who was detained by ice for a number of weeks. Case of mistaken identity, coupled with language barrier. I'm not really sure how that happens in the US of A. I think this was early in the first Trump administration.

Solution here, IMO, is to chill out a bit with federal law enforcement doing door knocking. I think it results in a really impersonal experience for the accused. I think I'd prefer a model where federal officials work with state/local law enforcement to actually do the arrests. But then I am generally suspicious of a number of three letter agencies. I have the most beef with ICE and ATF, though.

 

[Gibsonian]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/27/us/children-us-citizens-deported-honduras/index.html

Yes troubling trend but fully expected from anyone who understands the character of Trump

 

[Westernhawk]

It was only a matter of time. ICE just showing up and throwing folks into the back of cars is a really troubling trend. 5-10 years or so back, I met this guy who was detained by ice for a number of weeks. Case of mistaken identity, coupled with language barrier. I'm not really sure how that happens in the US of A. I think this was early in the first Trump administration.

Solution here, IMO, is to chill out a bit with federal law enforcement doing door knocking. I think it results in a really impersonal experience for the accused. I think I'd prefer a model where federal officials work with state/local law enforcement to actually do the arrests. But then I am generally suspicious of a number of three letter agencies. I have the most beef with ICE and ATF, though.

Maybe the moderate left and moderate right can unite on that topic. ICE needs some kind of restraint and guardrails.

My personal opinion (feel free to disagree) is that the far right is now perceived as center, so maybe we're just f'd.

 

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

Maybe the moderate left and moderate right can unite on that topic. ICE needs some kind of restraint and guardrails.

My personal opinion (feel free to disagree) is that the far right is now perceived as center, so maybe we're just f'd.

Definitely agree with the former.

As for the latter, I think it's easy for both sides to say the other has become more radical. The loudest factions are at the fringes of both parties. I've tried to find some research on political movement from center, didn't turn up anything great.

In many ways, much of the right is a lot more centrist than they were in, say, the early 2000s. Certainly in the social sense. As for economics? I mean, I'm not even sure where to put populism on the left-right spectrum. There's definitely a lot more stupid in our modern politics. I think that's just true on average. Next to no critical thinking from basically anyone.

A lot of the right would use terms like the "Overton window" to say that they haven't moved to the right, it's the spectrum that has moved to the left. I don't know that I totally buy that, but I do think it has some merits, at least on social issues. But then, as I said, I think a lot of folks are a lot more tolerant socially than they were before, so I'm not really sure how to square that all.

 

[Westernhawk]

Definitely agree with the former.

As for the latter, I think it's easy for both sides to say the other has become more radical. The loudest factions are at the fringes of both parties. I've tried to find some research on political movement from center, didn't turn up anything great.

In many ways, much of the right is a lot more centrist than they were in, say, the early 2000s. Certainly in the social sense. As for economics? I mean, I'm not even sure where to put populism on the left-right spectrum. There's definitely a lot more stupid in our modern politics. I think that's just true on average. Next to no critical thinking from basically anyone.

A lot of the right would use terms like the "Overton window" to say that they haven't moved to the right, it's the spectrum that has moved to the left. I don't know that I totally buy that, but I do think it has some merits, at least on social issues. But then, as I said, I think a lot of folks are a lot more tolerant socially than they were before, so I'm not really sure how to square that all.

I'm not sure how to square the "window" concept with whatever is going on now under Trump. First off, I'm not sure what to call MAGA. They have elements of alt-right extremism, but they are sort of unique.

At any rate, I'm not sure what one considers radical, but:

1. Ignoring court rulings
2. Pardoning felons after the Jan 6 insurrection
3. Threatening to send citizens to a prison in another country
4. Making decisions usually reserved for congress in a really bizarre fashion, using a S. Afrikan guy as a wrecking ball.
5. Closing or disabling federal agencies in a unilateral fashion.
6. Having the Justice Department bend to his will.
7. Crippling the research efforts of universities so that they get in line with the president's agenda.

I personally don't care about left v right anymore, I just want a functioning democracy when all is said and done.

Also have no need to argue with anyone here, just noting that some of the things we're seeing here are arguably unconsititutional.

 

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

I'm not sure how to square the "window" concept with whatever is going on now under Trump. First off, I'm not sure what to call MAGA. They have elements of alt-right extremism, but they are sort of unique.

At any rate, I'm not sure what one considers radical, but:

1. Ignoring court rulings
2. Pardoning felons after the Jan 6 insurrection
3. Threatening to send citizens to a prison in another country
4. Making decisions usually reserved for congress in a really bizarre fashion, using a S. Afrikan guy as a wrecking ball.
5. Closing or disabling federal agencies in a unilateral fashion.
6. Having the Justice Department bend to his will.
7. Crippling the research efforts of universities so that they get in line with the president's agenda.

I personally don't care about left v right anymore, I just want a functioning democracy when all is said and done.

Also have no need to argue with anyone here, just noting that some of the things we're seeing here are arguably unconsititutional.

1. Ignoring court rulings
I think the gag orders were patently unconstitutional. Otherwise I’m only familiar with the Boasberg stuff, and I think Boasberg is generally way out of line. Anything I’m missing?
2. Pardoning felons after the Jan 6 insurrection
Agree, blanket pardons were dumb.
3. Threatening to send citizens to a prison in another country
Trump is an idiot. Not sure how many times this has actually happened though. One unlawful deportation is more than is acceptable.
4. Making decisions usually reserved for congress in a really bizarre fashion, using a S. Afrikan guy as a wrecking ball.
Not unique to Trump, or Republicans. Not sure what the second sentence is referring to. Oh, Elon. lol. It seems Elon is going to take a backseat and try to get Tesla back on track. Good for all of us.
5. Closing or disabling federal agencies in a unilateral fashion.
I don’t have a problem with reigning in federal agencies. Not sure he’s actually done anything in this realm outside his power, but also not unilaterally saying he hasn’t. I don’t think it’s radical, and certainly not new. Standard Republican position for a sizable portion of the party since at least the Reagan admin.
6. Having the Justice Department bend to his will.
Not unique to Trump, and unitary executive. The DOJ is squarely within the executive branch. That’s how our government works. I hope you have an issue when people other than Trump misuse the DOJ. I don’t love it, but i also don’t know that there’s a better way. Regardless, changes require a constitutional amendment. Good luck with that. It is worth pointing out that this is a relatively conservative view on a constitutional issue.
7. Crippling the research efforts of universities so that they get in line with the president's agenda.
Have these actually been targeted at specific research, or are you just talking about cuts to federal grants, generally? I don’t think cutting the DoE is particularly controversial on the right. Certainly not a new idea in Republican circles, so I wouldn’t call it a sort of new radicalism.

It seems to me the things that you point to as evidence of new radicalism from the right is actually just Trump being an idiot. Maybe you just think these proposals have always been radical, but they aren’t new. The pardons were broadly unpopular. AFAIK, court rulings haven’t actually been ignored.

As to the topic of the thread, I don’t think any of that is evidence of impending doom for the republic or democracy. We’ve certainly weathered worse.

FWIW, I think Trump approval is down to like 40%.

 

[Westernhawk]

1. Ignoring court rulings
I think the gag orders were patently unconstitutional. Otherwise I’m only familiar with the Boasberg stuff, and I think Boasberg is generally way out of line. Anything I’m missing?
2. Pardoning felons after the Jan 6 insurrection
Agree, blanket pardons were dumb.
3. Threatening to send citizens to a prison in another country
Trump is an idiot. Not sure how many times this has actually happened though. One unlawful deportation is more than is acceptable.
4. Making decisions usually reserved for congress in a really bizarre fashion, using a S. Afrikan guy as a wrecking ball.
Not unique to Trump, or Republicans. Not sure what the second sentence is referring to. Oh, Elon. lol. It seems Elon is going to take a backseat and try to get Tesla back on track. Good for all of us.
5. Closing or disabling federal agencies in a unilateral fashion.
I don’t have a problem with reigning in federal agencies. Not sure he’s actually done anything in this realm outside his power, but also not unilaterally saying he hasn’t. I don’t think it’s radical, and certainly not new. Standard Republican position for a sizable portion of the party since at least the Reagan admin.
6. Having the Justice Department bend to his will.
Not unique to Trump, and unitary executive. The DOJ is squarely within the executive branch. That’s how our government works. I hope you have an issue when people other than Trump misuse the DOJ. I don’t love it, but i also don’t know that there’s a better way. Regardless, changes require a constitutional amendment. Good luck with that. It is worth pointing out that this is a relatively conservative view on a constitutional issue.
7. Crippling the research efforts of universities so that they get in line with the president's agenda.
Have these actually been targeted at specific research, or are you just talking about cuts to federal grants, generally? I don’t think cutting the DoE is particularly controversial on the right. Certainly not a new idea in Republican circles, so I wouldn’t call it a sort of new radicalism.

It seems to me the things that you point to as evidence of new radicalism from the right is actually just Trump being an idiot. Maybe you just think these proposals have always been radical, but they aren’t new. The pardons were broadly unpopular. AFAIK, court rulings haven’t actually been ignored.

As to the topic of the thread, I don’t think any of that is evidence of impending doom for the republic or democracy. We’ve certainly weathered worse.

FWIW, I think Trump approval is down to like 40%.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. Trump may be an idiot, but I don't give him a pass on everything just because he appears to be an idiot.

I'm sure you'll disagree with this, but Trump obviously appointed unqualified leaders in his cabinet because they are loyal to him. Most (if not all of them) are patently unqualified for their jobs, but they'll gleefully tear down HHS and other agencies, as that is the will of Trump and Project 2025.

The funding cuts at Harvard? I guess we'll see, but many folks think there's a case here, especially Harvard, LOL:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/4/23/legal-analysis-harvard-trump-lawsuit/

I hope you're right, and that we'll survive Trump and his desire to make the Administrative branch supreme. I also hope the "Trump 2028" hats are completely irrelevant. I hope.