Swoops

[Glass1/2fullguy]

Let's be honest, many of them live in a bubble and it absolutely pizzes them off when a female athlete of white color has this much success, and even more when the rest of the country has fallen in luv with her and her story or career.

There, I said it.

This is the jist of what Jason Whitlock said last year when he said cc is the tiger woods of wcbb. A good amount of people, racist white people I might add, hated the fact a black man was coming in to dominate a predominantly white person sport. WNBA was, at least from what I could find as of 2022, made up of 70% black women. Although 70% is probably nowhere near the percentage of black to whites in golf when tiger exploded onto the scene I would still call that a dominant percentage. It’s an interesting comparison so say the least. The sad thing is racism goes both ways and it’s usually the ones calling racism the loudest that need to take a look at themselves in the mirror.

 

[dagdaj]

Let's be honest, many of them live in a bubble and it absolutely pizzes them off when a female athlete of white color has this much success, and even more when the rest of the country has fallen in luv with her and her story or career.

There, I said it.

I can't quite go there.
Cause, we sure love to hate winners. I can't stand Tom Brady. Pretty sure I'm convinced Mahomes is a douche. I mean, who's ever unhappy watching Alabama football lose? I mean, every year I keep a spreadsheet of the Yankees and Mets payroll to wins ratio compared to the rest of the league. Just kidding. We love underdogs and emerging greatness. And hate dominators. Unless, you're a fan of the dominator. And sometimes it takes awhile for us to come back around.

I'm sure Muhammed Ali had his detractors (regardless of race/faith/etc) issues. My dad says he didn't like him because he was 'arrogant' with the whole "I am the greatest" thing....which is very much in-line with and genuine to my dad. But years later, my dad also got a little teary eyed when he lit the cauldron in Atlanta. I cannot admit anything other than Brady is one of, if not, the greatest of all time. The stats don't lie. I will probably one day tell my grandkids about watching him play.

I, on the other hand, always thought Ali was the greatest. I cherished my Ali action figure and he was always way tougher than my GI Joe. He always saved the day while Joe laid dead from some unforeseen explosion that launched him across the room.

I will say that race came into play in the attenuation of the praise she gets. The Tweets and praise from African American athletes is definitely attenuated, timed pretty tightly with the Reese/Clark interaction and "fallout". Not just race either. Because there's clearly an effort to build up the women's game. No problems with that. It's money. It's a business. To lavish that much on Clark, they're making the assumption that it comes at the expense of others. Like somehow, if they say Clark is the most talented player in generations or ever, that somehow devalues Paige Bueckers.

So, it's all just way safer for media content creators to just attenuate the attention on Clark. No third rails of ignoring other outstanding female athletes. Or risk being accused of celebrating a white person. Which, according to an exceptionally few loud voices just isn't allowable. Way easier to just avoid it. End result, attenuation.

But, that's not stopping the people who can really leverage her impact. I mean, it's one thing for a sports media person to write a story about Paige Bueckers and not Clark. Or JuJu Watkins. They deserve it. Nobody will get in trouble for not writing about Clark. But, let me tell you, Fox television was promoting the HELL out of Clark and Sunday's game. An extra 1% viewership literally translates into TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars. I don't live in Iowa. I'm not in Big 10 country. And Clark was all over my TV leading up to the last game. And then there's the "Caitlin Cam". They're not afraid of it. Cause it's money. And money trumps everything.

 

[thedukeofearl]

Holy crap... Swoopes sure stepped in it over this. Nobody cares or is surprised by Gilbert Arenas being ignorant on it all but her?! She's as tapped into what's going on with womens hoops as anyone. At least she should be especially if she's going to be speaking out on such things.

So if she's pretending she doesn't then that's insulting as all get out and I refuse to believe that. Saying Clark is 25 and that she's in her 5th or 6th yr is beyond nuts. The whole shooting 40 times/gm thing is so obviously insane. What's ironic is Swoopes shot 21 times/gm to Clarks 19 for her career so there's that...

I look forward to the folks in the media roasting her for it.

Profound ignorance is a serious problem

to willfully put one's ignorance on public display is so Sad

 

[Hawkboys]

And Clark was all over my TV leading up to the last game. And then there's the "Caitlin Cam". They're not afraid of it. Cause it's money. And money trumps everything.

I think that's what's driving most of this, that former stars and even current coaches are just flat out jealous of the attentions she's getting. I would say she's probably a top 10 draw in sports across all different sports and men's or women's sports. More popular than any baseball or NBA players.

 

[M1911A1Hawkeye]

Until yesterday, I had never heard of this Swoops, and honestly, I'll forget all about Swoops in a few days. This person is nothing more than a jealous hater.

 

[Dadman]

I think that's what's driving most of this, that former stars and even current coaches are just flat out jealous of the attentions she's getting. I would say she's probably a top 10 draw in sports across all different sports and men's or women's sports. More popular than any baseball or NBA players.

What is so shortsighted about this is that CC is putting Ncaaw and ultimately Wnba on the map to a level never before seen. How is it that the financial guru’s are not explaining and exploiting it to all the negative nancies that think 15 minutes of fame is better than the billions that are out there……

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

I attached Whitlock's Blaze article earlier in the thread. Whether a reader is a fan of Whitlock or not, his analysis in drawing a parallel between Caitlin's experience last year and what happened with Tiger is very interesting. Isaiah Thomas's comments in regard to Larry Bird back in the day could easily be thrown in the mix as well.

In terms of Caitlin, I think there are two components at play here.

One, there is the human tendency to always try to topple anyone or anything at the top of the mountain. Constant exposure, especially praise and adulation, breeds a degree of contempt. For those in the same profession, there is a degree of envy as well. It's human nature. We love the successful....until we don't.

Two, the racial component. It's uncomfortable but can't be ignored. My gut is that it's fortunately a small minority, but, as Whitlock points out (and we as fans have seen it play out numerous times), there can be an upheaval in any sport that is traditionally dominated by primarily one race when someone of a different race comes in and dominates. Think Jack Johnson, Jackie Robinson, Tiger Woods, Jesse Owens, Larry Bird and now Caitlin Clark. It's a sad reflection on our society, but it nevertheless is the reality.

 

[dagdaj]

I think that's what's driving most of this, that former stars and even current coaches are just flat out jealous of the attentions she's getting. I would say she's probably a top 10 draw in sports across all different sports and men's or women's sports. More popular than any baseball or NBA players.

I commented on that article (might have been a Purdue sports writer?) who claimed Clark was the most popular college athlete.

At first I wanted to disagree. Because basketball doesn't draw the eyeballs football does, at least until March. And women's basketball, less so. But, who do you go with? Ask who the best college QB was last season, and you'll get 5 different answers. Ask who the popular college athlete is (assuming people don't provide a homer answer) and you'll get 40 different answers. Numbers game. Clark comes out on top.

I can't even tell you any men's players names right now. I doubt the even less than casual sports fan has at least a chance of knowing who Clark is. It's utterly amazing.

It's why it's stupid not to find a way for her to play at the Olympics. It would benefit USABasketball and the USOC and it would put more eyeballs on players who otherwise aren't watched in the WNBA and draw more potential fans to the WNBA. It's why the WNBA is going to find whatever money it takes to get Clark to go into the draft. They know exactly how many more millions they will make for every 1% increase in viewership.

Of course she's benefitting from those who came before her. Including Sheryl Swoopes. And Swoopes should take pride in that. Clark doesn't happen without Swoopes. But Swoopes is still just Swoopes, without Clark. Great women's college basketball player in the early 90s. And one of the greatest WNBA players. Not exactly world stopping.

Bobby Orr isn't Bobby Orr without those like Gretsky, Messier, Crosby and those who came later. He's just a great player from that sport Canadians really like. If nobody cared about Tom Brady like they do, nobody would give a sh!t about Jim Brown or Johnny Unitas. Cause nobody would care about football the way they do. Commercials during the Super Bowl wouldn't cost brazillions. People wouldn't have parties to watch them play. There wouldn't be an entire food and entertaining industry dedicated to, and a damn near national holiday for the championship like there is now.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Profound ignorance is a serious problem

to willfully put one's ignorance on public display is so Sad

Amen. And it's even worse then that with her. She's since acknowledged some of what she was wrong about but not apologized or even addressed it. I'm waiting on national media talking heads to take a stand. I almost think some won't touch it and that's too bad. Stephen A Smith went out of his way to come to Iowa City to hang out with her for a bit. He's been as big of a backer Clark has had nationally. If he were to come out and give Swoopes the business over all she said that'd be quite the something.... However I get the feeling they'll be crickets from him on it due to the Uncle Tom aspect to it... Hope he and maybe others proves me wrong.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I attached Whitlock's Blaze article earlier in the thread. Whether a reader is a fan of Whitlock or not, his analysis in drawing a parallel between Caitlin's experience last year and what happened with Tiger is very interesting. Isaiah Thomas's comments in regard to Larry Bird back in the day could easily be thrown in the mix as well.

In terms of Caitlin, I think there are two components at play here.

One, there is the human tendency to always try to topple anyone or anything at the top of the mountain. Constant exposure, especially praise and adulation, breeds a degree of contempt. For those in the same profession, there is a degree of envy as well. It's human nature. We love the successful....until we don't.

Two, the racial component. It's uncomfortable but can't be ignored. My gut is that it's fortunately a small minority, but, as Whitlock points out (and we as fans have seen it play out numerous times), there can be an upheaval in any sport that is traditionally dominated by primarily one race when someone of a different race comes in and dominates. Think Jack Johnson, Jackie Robinson, Tiger Woods, Jesse Owens, Larry Bird and now Caitlin Clark. It's a sad reflection on our society, but it nevertheless is the reality.

Amen... Wait till Cooper DeJean becomes the best corner in the NFL in a few yrs.. That'll really have some heads spinning. Best RB is already Christian McCaffery if the best corner ends up being white too the whole league won't know what to do

 

[dagdaj]

What is so shortsighted about this is that CC is putting Ncaaw and ultimately Wnba on the map to a level never before seen. How is it that the financial guru’s are not explaining and exploiting it to all the negative nancies that think 15 minutes of fame is better than the billions that are out there……

They are and they know. Like I said about Fox. Of course, it's the sports arm of Fox television, but it's not "Fox Sports News" that promoted the heck out of that game. Or decided to stream a live shot of a camera focused solely on her on TikTok. If they did, it's to butter the bread of their overlord and line the pockets of Fox.

They know the money is there. The Indiana WNBA team knows that money is there. The WNBA knows this. It's why she will go pro. They will find the money. Or whatever they need to convince her.

But those entities don't have Twitter accounts, weekly columns, or daily TV shows where they spout hot sports takes. As a platform, they have components that do that. And they can let those components more or less do as they please, as long as they can promote and carry the Iowa/Maryland game. The WNBA isn't going to post on their Twitter that Clark is the vanguard for the current interest in women's sports is the biggest potential they've had for growing their audience in ever. But they know it.

They're not Jason Whitlock, Sheryl Swoopes, Mike Farrell, Marty Tirrell, Mitch Albom, Bob Costas, Jim Rome, or own Rob Howe (sorry to put you in there with Tirrell, some of the others are pretty good though, no?)...who's job it is to tell us about sports. Fox, WNBA, etc. Their role is to make money off sports.

And they know it.

 

[Dadman]

They are and they know. Like I said about Fox. Of course, it's the sports arm of Fox television, but it's not "Fox Sports News" that promoted the heck out of that game. Or decided to stream a live shot of a camera focused solely on her on TikTok. If they did, it's to butter the bread of their overlord and line the pockets of Fox.

They know the money is there. The Indiana WNBA team knows that money is there. The WNBA knows this. It's why she will go pro. They will find the money. Or whatever they need to convince her.

But those entities don't have Twitter accounts, weekly columns, or daily TV shows where they spout hot sports takes. As a platform, they have components that do that. And they can let those components more or less do as they please, as long as they can promote and carry the Iowa/Maryland game. The WNBA isn't going to post on their Twitter that Clark is the vanguard for the current interest in women's sports is the biggest potential they've had for growing their audience in ever. But they know it.

They're not Jason Whitlock, Sheryl Swoopes, Mike Farrell, Marty Tirrell, Mitch Albom, Bob Costas, Jim Rome, or own Rob Howe (sorry to put you in there with Tirrell, some of the others are pretty good though, no?)...who's job it is to tell us about sports. Fox, WNBA, etc. Their role is to make money off sports.

And they know it.

Agree with all your observations. Very well put. And Fox, peacock, btn are clearly on board. But what I don’t get are the kim mulkeys, dawn staleys, cheryl swoopes, etc. If anyone should be on board with protecting and promoting their “sport”, they should be front and center. But why advance their protege’s when they can bandwagon their own agendas? (I am trying very hard not to stoop to their level and even allude to their mindset, but we all know where their underlying motivation lies…..).

Just sad that the “haters” can’t enjoy the moment. And they cannot even conceive of the fact that by and large, they come across like morons.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Agree with all your observations. Very well put. And Fox, peacock, btn are clearly on board. But what I don’t get are the kim mulkeys, dawn staleys, cheryl swoopes, etc. If anyone should be on board with protecting and promoting their “sport”, they should be front and center. But why advance their protege’s when they can bandwagon their own agendas? (I am trying very hard not to stoop to their level and even allude to their mindset, but we all know where their underlying motivation lies…..).

Just sad that the “haters” can’t enjoy the moment. And they cannot even conceive of the fact that by and large, they come across like morons.

I think those other coaches and former players are just jealous straight up... Part of it is racial as well. Staley played that card last yr after Iowa beat them insinuating that Bluders comment about rebounding against them was like being like a bar fight. That's a common description for a game that's been a battle and she knows it. Yet she tried spinning that as racial against her. I don't see anything racial about bar fights hell most of the ones I know about are mostly all white guys but that's just her.

I think Swoopes is as well with how she clearly has a dislike for Clark and yet was propping up that JuJu Watkins gal (who is amazing too btw) She's shown her cards too. So I find it interesting that Geno Auriema at UConn has been a voice of reason amongst most of all this. He tries to promote his gals without bringing anyone else down from what I've ever heard anyway.

The blue bloods of womens hoops aren't crazy about little ole Iowa making waves at the top. They really don't like that the crowds and media attention is what it is. They wish it was all for them. Well tough shit. Smile at them and just be Iowa nice back at em. But we sure as hell aren't pushovers.

 

[Fryowa]

Friendly reminder that if this thread turns into a race debate it's going to get moved to OT. Call Swoopes an asshole all you want for being an ignorant, jealous prick, but do not go starting a left/right, CNN/Fox, Race A/Race B, yadda yadda thing on this board. You can have those opinions and express them to your heart's content, but not here.

Obviously content doesn't get removed or changed when that happens (only relocated), but every time I move a thread there is a small yet predictable contingent of posters coming out of the woodwork screaming like little babies.

If you want to do any of those things post it in OT Open.

Also if one individual purposely tries to get it moved via trolling, said person will get their content removed and be banned.

 

[NCHawker]

The Iowa twitter posey is very dilligent, combing the platform to find anyone who says anything short of praise for CC. Like mobs with pitch forks and torches. There is going to be a backlash agains the Iowa mob and CC will pay the price.

 

[gillnh2o]

Did you mean posse?

 

[Hawkfnntn]

The Iowa twitter posey is very dilligent, combing the platform to find anyone who says anything short of praise for CC. Like mobs with pitch forks and torches. There is going to be a backlash agains the Iowa mob and CC will pay the price.

Her BF isn't shy about sticking up for her which I think is awesome to see.

 

[HawkPowerlifter]

Biggest thing is for me is Swoopes came off bitter and jealous. Some of that may be the attention and money that these young athletes are getting that was not made available to Swoopes and her era.

I think the biggest issue is she didn't do her homework. Her chief complaint was that CC shoots more and is using an extra year to break this record. Both erroneous and it makes her look bad. Real bad. Even worse, nobody on that podcast corrected her. Instead they seemed to agree.

As for her argument about CC struggling or not getting as many opportunities, sure, valid or fair comment until otherwise proven. Personally, I think CC will transition just fine into the NBA. She may not score 30+ a night, but I think she will be just fine.

 

[NCHawker]

I'm concerned that in the WNBA she'll be treated as Calvin Jones and Jack Trice were. She's pretty slight, I expect she'll get bullied.

 

[dagdaj]

The Iowa twitter posey is very dilligent, combing the platform to find anyone who says anything short of praise for CC. Like mobs with pitch forks and torches. There is going to be a backlash agains the Iowa mob and CC will pay the price.

Actually, they're just being mined for clicks and social media interaction by people who don't give a rats petard either way.

Like I said, it's a great business model if you have no talent or soul.
It works well in sports. Combine that with social media and it's printing money.
I worked in sports radio for years. The good talent can talk about anything. They can talk about Clark. Praise her. And also find ways to be critical, since nobody is perfect.

The bad talent will tell you that Clark is bad for basketball. Or that what Shohei Ohtani isn't all that great, Babe Ruth did it too. And back in his heyday they would say that Tiger Woods is overrated as a golfer. Cheap radio.