CJF Signs with Kentucky

Fryowa said:
lol.

Bohannon played 29 minutes per game this year and CJ played 25 (and started).

You’re saying that if they had swapped 5 minutes CJ would’ve been satisfied somehow? CJ Fredrick is a total flake and we just didn’t know it till now. Call a spade a spade, man. I don’t always agree with Iowa coaches, especially Ferentz, but you just literally stretch every single thing that happens on an Iowa sports team into an indictment of that particular coach.

If Luka Garza broke his foot and had to take a medical redshirt you would turn it into something about how it was Fran's fault and how he caused it somehow.

I’m surprised when Wirfs got his OWI that you didn’t come in here and tell us it was Ferentz’s fault.
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I wonder what the more to the story is with CJ and his communication with coaches. As had been pointed out with how Fran worded things with kids that transfered out he was always generous and wished em all well. When Moss left it felt like Fran coulda possibly been a tad jilted with that but if he was he never publicly let it on. He gave him a nice send off like everyone else. Until CJ and that wasn't remotely an accident or mistake.

So if CJ was upset with his mins or how he was being used or his injury or a combination of it all I dunno. But he certainly got on the wrong side of Fran and the staff and the fastest way to do that would be to get caught up in a lie. It's not that the kid doesn't have the right to make a move if he wanted more power to him and everyone else that does. But you start playing the shady tampering game and lying about your intentions and as far as I'm concerned you can take a hike.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
I wonder what the more to the story is with CJ and his communication with coaches. As had been pointed out with how Fran worded things with kids that transfered out he was always generous and wished em all well. When Moss left it felt like Fran coulda possibly been a tad jilted with that but if he was he never publicly let it on. He gave him a nice send off like everyone else. Until CJ and that wasn't remotely an accident or mistake.

So if CJ was upset with his mins or how he was being used or his injury or a combination of it all I dunno. But he certainly got on the wrong side of Fran and the staff and the fastest way to do that would be to get caught up in a lie. It's not that the kid doesn't have the right to make a move if he wanted more power to him and everyone else that does. But you start playing the shady tampering game and lying about your intentions and as far as I'm concerned you can take a hike.
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Fran values character. CJ lacks character. He’s perfect for Kentucky. That’s where he belongs and I’m glad he’ll never wear a Hawkeye uniform again.
 
Moss and CJ did Iowa dirty - both were given nothing but opportunities at Iowa and they bit the hand that fed them. They leveraged all the skills, resources and equity Iowa had put into them to get a placement at a better school. Fran's not happy about it. You wouldn't be either, but it happens and it's going to happen again and there isn't a ton Fran can do about it. It happens every day in the real world with jobs - this is no different. I use my current job all the time, my experience and the training they given me to leverage for better offers.
 
InGoodCo said:
Moss and CJ did Iowa dirty - both were given nothing but opportunities at Iowa and they bit the hand that fed them. They leveraged all the skills, resources and equity Iowa had put into them to get a placement at a better school. Fran's not happy about it. You wouldn't be either, but it happens and it's going to happen again and there isn't a ton Fran can do about it. It happens every day in the real world with jobs - this is no different. I use my current job all the time, my experience and the training they given me to leverage for better offers.
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I think Fran was more ok with Moss leaving because he did have CJ coming in am I remembering that right with the timing or did they overlap a yr and we already had CJ? I think Moss was honest with Fran about things and even though Fran may not have been tickled about him leaving he didn't leave us in a lurch like CJ did. Fran put out a positive announcement for when he left wishing him well.

In CJs case with Fran being pissed it's not even about what you've mentioned I don't think. That's just how it is with any kid that's been recruited by a school and been there multiple yrs that wants to leave there's no getting around that. With him it's about whatever CJ told Fran the week leading up to him announcing he's leaving. And then all the tampering rumors of his uncle who Fran knows. There's more to the story with all that and we'll just never find out about it I'm afraid...
 
Hawkfnntn said:
I think Fran was more ok with Moss leaving because he did have CJ coming in am I remembering that right with the timing or did they overlap a yr and we already had CJ? I think Moss was honest with Fran about things and even though Fran may not have been tickled about him leaving he didn't leave us in a lurch like CJ did. Fran put out a positive announcement for when he left wishing him well.

In CJs case with Fran being pissed it's not even about what you've mentioned I don't think. That's just how it is with any kid that's been recruited by a school and been there multiple yrs that wants to leave there's no getting around that. With him it's about whatever CJ told Fran the week leading up to him announcing he's leaving. And then all the tampering rumors of his uncle who Fran knows. There's more to the story with all that and we'll just never find out about it I'm afraid...
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I think he was equally as pissed with Isiah -I mean, with IM he had 4 years of development into him. Iowa is a developmental program. They rely on recruiting under valued kids and building them into all conference type of players by the time they are SRs. Honestly, Moss was in the mold. Think about if players like, White, Uthoff, Jok, Marble - those guys were molded to have a big senior year pay off and they did. They all could have left and played somewhere else in our current environment. Can you imagine what Iowa might have been with IM on that team? With another guard and shooter? How bout Cook for a Sr. year? How bout CJ for 2 more? How bout Wieskamp?

For all the comparisons we do of Fran and Tom Davis and who ever else ya wanna throw out that's coached Iowa.....ya know the old argument about whether he was better or worse or that Fran should get Iowa further then he is getting us because Tom Davis did and what not. I can tell you this. Tom Davis didn't lose on of his top contributors every season to professional basketball or the blue bloods and that's basically the new trend for Fran. The better players he gets the more of them he loses to greener pastures. That's not on Fran imo. There's only so much love you can show someone.
 
InGoodCo said:
Moss and CJ did Iowa dirty - both were given nothing but opportunities at Iowa and they bit the hand that fed them. They leveraged all the skills, resources and equity Iowa had put into them to get a placement at a better school. Fran's not happy about it. You wouldn't be either, but it happens and it's going to happen again and there isn't a ton Fran can do about it. It happens every day in the real world with jobs - this is no different. I use my current job all the time, my experience and the training they given me to leverage for better offers.
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I'm not saying this about you because I don't know your employment situation and there's nothing wrong with always looking for the next best thing especially if you're in a terrible job or getting sub market pay. But what people have to realize is that a significant chunk of the population are star fuckers and prestige whores. I recruited and hired dozens of people up in Chicago right out of school. The jobs are basically fungible, the pay identical across the board. Lockstep pretty much everywhere for 7 or 8 years. And at least half the people would work for a year or two, get training, and cut the F out to just go basically across the street. No more pay, pretty much the same job. Their response was always "well, xyz is higher ranked" or "more prestigious." It's seriously un-fucking-real. It was always the same type - didn't meet the GPA cutoff or had a bad interview or whatever and then as soon as they had a year or two in, gone. Motherfucker, those assholes DID NOT WANT YOU 2 years ago in the recruiting cycle and now that they had a bunch of people quit because the job sucks worse there than here they need bodies and you're just gonna bounce? It was so fucking annoying.

There's just nothing you can do about it. If someone is a star fucker, they're gonna leave as soon as they find their star.
 
okeefe4prez said:
I'm not saying this about you because I don't know your employment situation and there's nothing wrong with always looking for the next best thing especially if you're in a terrible job or getting sub market pay. But what people have to realize is that a significant chunk of the population are star fuckers and prestige whores. I recruited and hired dozens of people up in Chicago right out of school. The jobs are basically fungible, the pay identical across the board. Lockstep pretty much everywhere for 7 or 8 years. And at least half the people would work for a year or two, get training, and cut the F out to just go basically across the street. No more pay, pretty much the same job. Their response was always "well, xyz is higher ranked" or "more prestigious." It's seriously un-fucking-real. It was always the same type - didn't meet the GPA cutoff or had a bad interview or whatever and then as soon as they had a year or two in, gone. Motherfucker, those assholes DID NOT WANT YOU 2 years ago in the recruiting cycle and now that they had a bunch of people quit because the job sucks worse there than here they need bodies and you're just gonna bounce? It was so fucking annoying.

There's just nothing you can do about it. If someone is a star fucker, they're gonna leave as soon as they find their star.
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I've had 5 jobs in 30 years and never been unemployed a day in my life, so I am definitely not a star fucker, but I have used the skills I've gotten at previous jobs to level up. If that makes sense. I've also used skills that I received from an employer that got me a foot in the door at another place. I might use that interview to leverage more pay from my current company or actually level up. That's common place in the work field. I'm a recruiter, so I get people jobs, so I understand how the games played as much as anyone as I am making job offers and negotiating pay rates hundreds of times a week with people.


It's just the way world works and IMO is kind of shitty, but again, how it works. While I agree, you don't want to be star fucker, employers also want to see you level up and continuing to progress in your career. If you stay too long at one place with no advancement that's almost as equally as damaging as job hoping. Employers want talented people, talented people should always be looking and open to opportunities.
 
InGoodCo said:
I think he was equally as pissed with Isiah -I mean, with IM he had 4 years of development into him. Iowa is a developmental program. They rely on recruiting under valued kids and building them into all conference type of players by the time they are SRs. Honestly, Moss was in the mold. Think about if players like, White, Uthoff, Jok, Marble - those guys were molded to have a big senior year pay off and they did. They all could have left and played somewhere else in our current environment. Can you imagine what Iowa might have been with IM on that team? With another guard and shooter? How bout Cook for a Sr. year? How bout CJ for 2 more? How bout Wieskamp?

For all the comparisons we do of Fran and Tom Davis and who ever else ya wanna throw out that's coached Iowa.....ya know the old argument about whether he was better or worse or that Fran should get Iowa further then he is getting us because Tom Davis did and what not. I can tell you this. Tom Davis didn't lose on of his top contributors every season to professional basketball or the blue bloods and that's basically the new trend for Fran. The better players he gets the more of them he loses to greener pastures. That's not on Fran imo. There's only so much love you can show someone.
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I'm sure Fran wasn't happy about IM leaving. Although I think he'd peaked and reached his ceiling as a player his JR yr anyway. But that's hindsight we had no way of knowing that then. You gave great examples of others who all took significant leaps between JR and Sr yrs along with who coulda. The difference with Fran being unhappy without expressing it publicly is with this kind of case he can't. Doing so would lend himself to being a crier and that wouldn't work with how kids transfer so much. He has to then turn around and try to get those kids now too it's a 2 way street like the Rebraca kid. So he had to send him off with well wishes like he did. Which is what makes why he was cold as ice to CJ interesting.

Yeah back in Dr Toms day there was just a heck of a lot less transfering around. Look at Indiana. Bobby Knight couldn't exist now. He'd never get a HC job let alone a high profile one and keep it 30 yrs or whatever. I bet he had 5 kids a year that all wanted to leave but never did just 'because that's how it was' The combination of kids growing up with thicker skin and the times being how they were. Would Mr. Davis have similar issues as Fran if he was coaching today would be the way to try looking at it. And it's just hard to think he wouldn't. Chris Kingsbury was like the highest recruit he got wasn't it and he didn't stick around to graduate.
 
okeefe4prez said:
I'm not saying this about you because I don't know your employment situation and there's nothing wrong with always looking for the next best thing especially if you're in a terrible job or getting sub market pay. But what people have to realize is that a significant chunk of the population are star fuckers and prestige whores. I recruited and hired dozens of people up in Chicago right out of school. The jobs are basically fungible, the pay identical across the board. Lockstep pretty much everywhere for 7 or 8 years. And at least half the people would work for a year or two, get training, and cut the F out to just go basically across the street. No more pay, pretty much the same job. Their response was always "well, xyz is higher ranked" or "more prestigious." It's seriously un-fucking-real. It was always the same type - didn't meet the GPA cutoff or had a bad interview or whatever and then as soon as they had a year or two in, gone. Motherfucker, those assholes DID NOT WANT YOU 2 years ago in the recruiting cycle and now that they had a bunch of people quit because the job sucks worse there than here they need bodies and you're just gonna bounce? It was so fucking annoying.

There's just nothing you can do about it. If someone is a star fucker, they're gonna leave as soon as they find their star.
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So your saying you were the Iowa of the corporate world? You got the leftovers, trained them and lost them to the Blue Bloods?
 
Well I'm not like you guys, I have never made it to the white collar job, You know why? I'm on social security disability. I'm ashamed to say I'm poor. You can all brag that I'm nothing, and I have nothing. Be proud of yourself. Pat yourself on your back and Congratulations for making it....
 
InGoodCo said:
I think he was equally as pissed with Isiah -I mean, with IM he had 4 years of development into him. Iowa is a developmental program. They rely on recruiting under valued kids and building them into all conference type of players by the time they are SRs. Honestly, Moss was in the mold. Think about if players like, White, Uthoff, Jok, Marble - those guys were molded to have a big senior year pay off and they did. They all could have left and played somewhere else in our current environment. Can you imagine what Iowa might have been with IM on that team? With another guard and shooter? How bout Cook for a Sr. year? How bout CJ for 2 more? How bout Wieskamp?

For all the comparisons we do of Fran and Tom Davis and who ever else ya wanna throw out that's coached Iowa.....ya know the old argument about whether he was better or worse or that Fran should get Iowa further then he is getting us because Tom Davis did and what not. I can tell you this. Tom Davis didn't lose on of his top contributors every season to professional basketball or the blue bloods and that's basically the new trend for Fran. The better players he gets the more of them he loses to greener pastures. That's not on Fran imo. There's only so much love you can show someone.
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But, the flip side is, it is Fran who is recruiting these players. Ultimately, it comes back to him if he can't make them happy and it effects the team's short and long range performance. Right or wrong. And, if he loses them, he needs to replace them to keep competitive balance. Not that is it 100% on Fran, but it could come back to bite him in the end if he can't retain and reload on players.

I think Fran would get a higher pass if he had a conference title, or Sweet 16 run or better. It could be stomached more.

He needs to break that glass ceiling and be prepared to be a savvy recruiter and reload if this is the new trend.
 
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HaydenHawk56 said:
But, the flip side is, it is Fran who is recruiting these players. Ultimately, it comes back to him if he can't make them happy and it effects the team's short and long range performance. Right or wrong. And, if he loses them, he needs to replace them to keep competitive balance. Not that is it 100% on Fran, but it could come back to bite him in the end if he can't retain and reload on players.
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That transfer culture isn't on Fran, it's rampant and not a Fran thing. Keeping them here is his job though. I completely agree....but at some point you have to say you've done all you can to help someone. Like you said, right or wrong, it's his problem to deal with, I'm just stating, it wasn't like this 20 or hell, even 10 years ago. Fran used to be able to keep his best players until the pay off cause it used to be difficult to leave your school, it's not anymore... so kids can use schools as stepping stones to better situations. Iowa's on the menu, they are likely never going to be off the menu - and the blue bloods are hungry. Every coach that Iowa hires from here on out is gonna be in the same boat.
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
But, the flip side is, it is Fran who is recruiting these players. Ultimately, it comes back to him if he can't make them happy and it effects the team's short and long range performance. Right or wrong. And, if he loses them, he needs to replace them to keep competitive balance. Not that is it 100% on Fran, but it could come back to bite him in the end if he can't retain and reload on players.

I think Fran would get a higher pass if he had a conference title, or Sweet 16 run or better. It could be stomached more.

He needs to break that glass ceiling and be prepared to be a savvy recruiter and reload if this is the new trend.
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And I'd argue that getting to the Sweet 16 and conference titles was easier to do at a school like Iowa when they could keep their best players. I think about it a lot. Had Iowa had Cook his Sr. season. If Iowa could have Wieskamp next year? If Iowa would have played in the tournament in 20? What it Moss had stayed? Who knows what would have happened. It doesn't make the job easier at a school like Iowa, that I am sure of.

Iowa has been NCAA eligible in 6 out of the last 8 seasons - again, for a school like Iowa, that's impressive in this environment IMO. Also considering the decade of hoops that preceded it in Iowa City. It's definitely more of what we as Iowa fans are accustomed to and that's why a lot of Iowa fans aren't quite as trigger happy with Fran, because we look at it from a broader picture.

I'm all for your opinion as well, Fran needs a sweet 16 to suffice the fan base - he doesn't have it. I just don't think its a firable offense - I want continuity and growth even if it's small steps.
 
InGoodCo said:
That transfer culture isn't on Fran, it's rampant and not a Fran thing. Keeping them here is his job though. I completely agree....but at some point you have to say you've done all you can to help someone. Like you said, right or wrong, it's his problem to deal with, I'm just stating, it wasn't like this 20 or hell, even 10 years ago. Fran used to be able to keep his best players until the pay off cause it used to be difficult to leave your school, it's not anymore... so kids can use schools as stepping stones to better situations. Iowa's on the menu, they are likely never going to be off the menu - and the blue bloods are hungry. Every coach that Iowa hires from here on out is gonna be in the same boat.
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Agreed. Hopefully, we can be that type of school that gets those "blue-blood players rough around the edges".....be able to keep them here a year or two....and do something with them before they go.
 
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