I don't understand Fran

tksirius said:
I'm glad we now agree on this. :D





https://hawkeyenation.com/forum/threads/how-much-longer-does-fran-get.77596/
Click to expand...

IMO Barta doesn't differentiate between the NIT and the NCAA. Fran and Kirk will always be good enough to have Iowa playing in the post-season.

Neither one will ever be forced out due to the bar being set at: "play in the post-season and you're safe".

Gary has changed. Today he wouldn't apply the same pressure to Steve. Bump expected Iowa to be better than the Cyclones in the revenue sports. Those days are gone.
 


BigD said:
I agree. I think your being sarcastic on shitty third place finishes remark. If you finish in third place in the B1G that is respectable. I got frustrated with Alford averaging in seventh or eight place. Off the top of my head I don't know what Fran's average place is. If I were to guess I would say fifth or sixth place. We must also remember that on an annual basis we have more basement dwellers in basketball with the recent expansion of teams going all the way back to when Penn State joined. PSU, Nebraska, Rutgers, are not basketball schools to say the least. Could toss Northwestern in there also but they have been pretty bad long before the expansion so that is why I didn't mention them.
Click to expand...

Tied for 5th
Tied for 3rd
Tied for 3rd
6th
6th

That's pretty darn good for now. Especially the last three years. We were a lot close to being even better than we were to being worse fwiw.
 


BigD said:
I agree. I think your being sarcastic on shitty third place finishes remark. If you finish in third place in the B1G that is respectable. I got frustrated with Alford averaging in seventh or eight place. Off the top of my head I don't know what Fran's average place is. If I were to guess I would say fifth or sixth place. We must also remember that on an annual basis we have more basement dwellers in basketball with the recent expansion of teams going all the way back to when Penn State joined. PSU, Nebraska, Rutgers, are not basketball schools to say the least. Could toss Northwestern in there also but they have been pretty bad long before the expansion so that is why I didn't mention them.
Click to expand...

I agree that there are some basement dwellers. But we also have MSU and Wisconsin (hopefully no more) that are guaranteed top 4 every year. Then we have Maryland and Indiana who are big time programs. Then we have Ohio State, Michigan, Minnesota, Purdue, and Illinois who all are at least as good if not better programs than Iowa. That's 9 teams that are also pissed if they aren't in the top 4.

We have a really good coach that has gone toe to toe with all those programs and only 2 of them have won more Big 10 games in the last 3 years than he has. We all want to be the next Wisconsin (I personally think Fran can get us there) but that took a hall of fame coach to do what they've done and those coaches don't grow on trees. Do you really want to get rid of a guy who has the 3rd most conference wins over the last 3 years on a prayer that we can somehow bring in a future hall of fame coach? What are the odds of that? I can see getting rid of a decent coach hoping to find a good one. But I guess that's the problem. A lot of fans think Fran is only a decent coach. Decent coaches don't turn dumpster fires into one of the best 4 year stretches in the history of Iowa basketball tho.
 


PCHawk said:
Am I the only one who doesn't care about the Big 10 tournament at all as far as judging a coach goes. I hate when we lose early because basketball every day is awesome. I just don't care as far as expectations for a coach. My main concern is regular season. My second concern is NCAA tournament. But even that isn't as much of a concern because one and done settings are too random to base what to do with a coach on. Unless they flame out constantly as a way higher seed.
Click to expand...

I care way more about the regular season too. But since we play the tournament to generate revenue it becomes part of a coach's profile like it or not. It just looks bad to keep losing in it the we way do. And winning a game or two in a tournament setting like that under the bright lights gets you off on the right foot if you play on in the NCAA or NIT. And those games do matter as far as seeding or even getting into the NCAA tournament- an opportunity that we really blew this season.
 


PCHawk said:
I agree that there are some basement dwellers. But we also have MSU and Wisconsin (hopefully no more) that are guaranteed top 4 every year. Then we have Maryland and Indiana who are big time programs. Then we have Ohio State, Michigan, Minnesota, Purdue, and Illinois who all are at least as good if not better programs than Iowa. That's 9 teams that are also pissed if they aren't in the top 4.

We have a really good coach that has gone toe to toe with all those programs and only 2 of them have won more Big 10 games in the last 3 years than he has. We all want to be the next Wisconsin (I personally think Fran can get us there) but that took a hall of fame coach to do what they've done and those coaches don't grow on trees. Do you really want to get rid of a guy who has the 3rd most conference wins over the last 3 years on a prayer that we can somehow bring in a future hall of fame coach? What are the odds of that? I can see getting rid of a decent coach hoping to find a good one. But I guess that's the problem. A lot of fans think Fran is only a decent coach. Decent coaches don't turn dumpster fires into one of the best 4 year stretches in the history of Iowa basketball tho.
Click to expand...


Everything you say is true, but these next couple of years are huge for FM. The program can't take a step back.
 


trj said:
Everything you say is true, but these next couple of years are huge for FM. The program can't take a step back.
Click to expand...

Take a step back from where they were this year? I sure hope not. I'll lead the charge if they do. I'll be more shocked if we don't make the tourney next year than I would be if we won the conference.
 


tksirius said:
I'm glad we now agree on this. :D





https://hawkeyenation.com/forum/threads/how-much-longer-does-fran-get.77596/
Click to expand...


He asked what it would it would take for me - and that's missing the NCAA 3 years in a row and I would be pretty unhappy. I still don't think it would get Fran canned and here are some reasons.

1. The goodwill he's created for the job he's done, which has been exceptional considering what he took over. He's winning at the rate that Iowa fans became accustomed to under Tom Davis and has brought back Iowa basketball to being a consistent competitor.

2. His roll in the community - his family - his sons - his sons coming to Iowa. It matters. His coaching staff has stayed in tact and play huge rolls in the IC community. They have created a family like environment within the program that hasn't been there since the late 90's and has been more of a train wreck/hostile shit show ever since.

3. Iowa is not considered a destination job to many coaches. I know that's hard to hear for a lot, but it's true and always been the case sans Tom Davis. Many coaches would look at Iowa as a stepping stone (Steve Alford, Lute Olsen, Raveling, Miller). When you have a coach as good as Fran, and he's happy here and he's winning or shows signs of winning and going to the tournament, you don't get rid of that kind of guy especially in the current climate of college basketball coaching.

4. He's closed the borders on Iowa kids and he's getting all of the best players from the state he wants. He's getting the Bohannon's, the Woodbury's, The Uthoff's - Harrison Barnes aint leaving right now, Kirk Heinrich's not going to KS. And he's also starting to pull in the top kids from other states (and he did very early with Mike Gesell out of NE) - Garza out of DC, Nunge out of IN (he's considered top 5 in IN), Cook out of MO etc. He's showing that he can recruit and has an eye for talent.

As of this moment, Fran is calling the shots as to how long he's here at Iowa and it's NOT even close and it would take 3 straight down years of missing the dance for me personally, but i bet he would get more time from the administration mostly because there are going to have to be some extreme circumstances that occur for Iowa not the dance over the next 2 years... and I mean extreme. So, it's not even really a conversation worth having.
 




BigD said:
I am hopeful for the next two to three years like everyone else but I don't want to see the basketball program fall into the same trap as the football program and the apathy around it. Things can't be too great as Several posters have stated the only half the seats are occupied during the regular season basketball games. When Lute was here you couldn't get tickets to the game as they were always some out unless we were playing someone we knew we would kill by forty points. A Final Four appearance DOES tend to generate a little interest!

So apparently there is some apathy that has set in. Sure he is doing better that Steve or Lick has done but a time period is approaching where it will be apparent one way or the other what direction this program is going. With 8p weeknight games and--who thought THIS up--SUNDAY games, it changes the dynamic for those "can", or even "want" to, attend.

It appears that our recruiting has ticked up and that is why I have said I can see waiting a couple more years to see what Fran can do with what appears to be upgrades in recruiting. One poster was already arguing one day that even if we don't improve in the next couple of years who is to say it won't happen a few years after that. People get themselves in a trap. Most people don't like change because worse things could happen so just stand put and accept mediocrity and hope once in a while the conference is down combined with slightly better recruits and we win the conference. Lame as hell. Agreed. If this current crop isn't getting out of the first weekend by the team they leave, a reassessment is absolutely necessary.

I know that many on here have been saying the same thing as I have been. We will give Fran a pass this year because his freshmen player well but are very young. I totally agree and have openly said so. Many have also agreed with me that the time of excuses has got to come to an end within three years. I totally agree.

My gripe is with the dumb masses out here who will be making excuses IF Fran doesn't pull it together in the next three years. They are out here and they will support him if that happens and will be talking trash about how great the next recruiting class will be. These types of fans kill me. It's this mindset that destroys sports programs because. It's what Hayden Fry identified as his top priority to change when he first got here............ and they are back in spades.

I ask all of you that are on the same bus as I am not to listen or be influenced by these types of people. If it don't work out ( and I hope it does as I have been supporting Fran all along) then it's time to vocal. My biggest gripe isn't so much with Fran as it is with these fans out here that Hayden Fry was talking about. Accept mediocrity and make up excuses of why it's ok.
Click to expand...
 




InGoodCo said:
maybe over all still, but that won't stand much longer, then whatcha got? - Alford took over a program that was a Corvette at worse - Fran took over a program that was a Chevette at best. Their NCAA resume and hit percentage aint even close and their conference win percentage (games that count against better competition) aint close either.
Click to expand...

More accurately, Alford took over a program that was Corvette AT its best. Fran took over a program that was three levels BELOW a Corvair at ITS best.
 






InGoodCo said:
He asked what it would it would take for me - and that's missing the NCAA 3 years in a row and I would be pretty unhappy. I still don't think it would get Fran canned and here are some reasons.

1. The goodwill he's created for the job he's done, which has been exceptional considering what he took over. He's winning at the rate that Iowa fans became accustomed to under Tom Davis and has brought back Iowa basketball to being a consistent competitor.

2. His roll in the community - his family - his sons - his sons coming to Iowa. It matters. His coaching staff has stayed in tact and play huge rolls in the IC community. They have created a family like environment within the program that hasn't been there since the late 90's and has been more of a train wreck/hostile shit show ever since.

3. Iowa is not considered a destination job to many coaches. I know that's hard to hear for a lot, but it's true and always been the case sans Tom Davis. Many coaches would look at Iowa as a stepping stone (Steve Alford, Lute Olsen, Raveling, Miller). When you have a coach as good as Fran, and he's happy here and he's winning or shows signs of winning and going to the tournament, you don't get rid of that kind of guy especially in the current climate of college basketball coaching.

4. He's closed the borders on Iowa kids and he's getting all of the best players from the state he wants. He's getting the Bohannon's, the Woodbury's, The Uthoff's - Harrison Barnes aint leaving right now, Kirk Heinrich's not going to KS. And he's also starting to pull in the top kids from other states (and he did very early with Mike Gesell out of NE) - Garza out of DC, Nunge out of IN (he's considered top 5 in IN), Cook out of MO etc. He's showing that he can recruit and has an eye for talent.

As of this moment, Fran is calling the shots as to how long he's here at Iowa and it's NOT even close and it would take 3 straight down years of missing the dance for me personally, but i bet he would get more time from the administration mostly because there are going to have to be some extreme circumstances that occur for Iowa not the dance over the next 2 years... and I mean extreme. So, it's not even really a conversation worth having.
Click to expand...

^^^^^ THIS!!! ^^^^^ THIS!!! ^^^^^ THIS!!! ^^^^^ THIS!!! ^^^^^ THIS!!! ^^^^^

The only thing missing, IMHO, is the fact that the program is trending forward!! Yes, Iowa took a slight step back this year, but everyone expected it. The fact that the Hawks did as well as theydid is a testament to the coaching job Fran did.

I'll admit that I wasn't real high on the incoming class. The only play that had any real hype was Cook. But Fran caught lightning in a bottle with Pemsl and Bohannon. Is it any coincidence that those two played so well together this year?

I am so looking forward to '17-'18 and seeing how this team grows and matures and blends with Garza, Nunge, and McCaffery.

GO HAWKS!!!
 










Joshbrown said:
IMO Barta doesn't differentiate between the NIT and the NCAA. Fran and Kirk will always be good enough to have Iowa playing in the post-season.

Neither one will ever be forced out due to the bar being set at: "play in the post-season and you're safe".

Gary has changed. Today he wouldn't apply the same pressure to Steve. Bump expected Iowa to be better than the Cyclones in the revenue sports. Those days are gone.
Click to expand...
IMO, no one is going to take you seriously if you think Bart's lumps NCAA and NIT as equals.

And if Kirk can get his team in the NIT or NCAA then he should get a10 year extension--minimum.
 


tksirius said:
Which car are we now?
Click to expand...

An Audi S7. But it's still getting work done, once the V8 is upgraded and we get the graphite package with the napa leather piped seat finished...look out. Top end performance will be insane good, but I'm more concerned about reliability and consistent high end output.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.


Latest posts

Share this page






Top