In Regards To Jok's Flagrant Foul







In case anyone wonders about what is a live ball....

Section 1. Live Ball
Art. 1. The game and each period start when the ball becomes live.
Art. 2. The ball shall become live when:
a. On a jump ball, the ball leaves the official’s hand.
b. On a throw-in, the ball is at the disposal of the thrower-in.
c. On a free throw, the ball is at the disposal of the free-thrower.
 


Flop by Showalter...laughing on the bench, waiting for the fake elbow to pay off, not a red mark on his smirky face, brofriending with his fellow badger players on the sideline, waiting to celebrate the end of their losing...all good...

BOOM...not so fast my faker...
 


Unless someone is an official at a high level, I am typically wary of people using the rule book to win their point.

My brother officiates football in a major conference. Typically any given play that someone wants to question might involve multiple rules from the rule book that need to all be considered and interpreted for that given situation. In football, finding a rule in the book and posting it like you did here would not mean that the rules were necessarily enforced properly.

I don't know about this specific instance, and it certainly seems cut and dried. I am just telling you what I know to be true in football from someone that knows more about the rules than most people will ever dream of knowing.
 


revkev73 said:
Flop by Showalter...laughing on the bench, waiting for the fake elbow to pay off, not a red mark on his smirky face, brofriending with his fellow badger players on the sideline, waiting to celebrate the end of their losing...all good...

BOOM...not so fast my faker...
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Are you serious? He obviously caught an elbow to the head. If he flopped or not is irrelevant, really. What is relevant is if the refs had a right to review it on the monitors after the free throw. They got the call right, really. But if they weren't supposed to review at that time, it is also legitimate to say they ripped us off.
 


When watching, I was wondering how the hell can they look at the monitor AFTER a free throw was already shot. Was really weird to me. It that is an infraction by the officials, how the heck does that happen. It just shows the Q/C issues the BIG has with their refs.

You would think a ref would take a step back and think "Boy, I'm not sure we can take a look now".
 


Thawki said:
Unless someone is an official at a high level, I am typically wary of people using the rule book to win their point.

My brother officiates football in a major conference. Typically any given play that someone wants to question might involve multiple rules from the rule book that need to all be considered and interpreted for that given situation. In football, finding a rule in the book and posting it like you did here would not mean that the rules were necessarily enforced properly.

I don't know about this specific instance, and it certainly seems cut and dried. I am just telling you what I know to be true in football from someone that knows more about the rules than most people will ever dream of knowing.
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The rules are out there free of charge for any literate person to read. You don't have to be an official to understand them.
http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4...ens-basketball-rules-and-interpretations.aspx
 


While a lot of the rules involve some gray area, some are pretty black and white. I have yet to see an official call a foul for a defender putting both hands on a ball handler, despite it happening several times a game.

Art. 4. The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a player with the ball:
a. Keeping a hand or forearm on an opponent;
b. Putting two hands on an opponent.
c. Continually jabbing an opponent by extending an arm(s) and placing a hand or forearm on the opponent;
d. Using an arm bar to impede the progress of a dribbler.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR17.pdf
 


Showalter clearly wrapped his arm around Jok, a rather nice swim move by Jok, and a gutless, dead Badger on the floor....that's what I saw. The biggest flop was at the top the key by that freshman guard when he ran into Pemsl or Wagner....anyone catch that one?
 


Thawki said:
Unless someone is an official at a high level, I am typically wary of people using the rule book to win their point.

My brother officiates football in a major conference. Typically any given play that someone wants to question might involve multiple rules from the rule book that need to all be considered and interpreted for that given situation. In football, finding a rule in the book and posting it like you did here would not mean that the rules were necessarily enforced properly.

I don't know about this specific instance, and it certainly seems cut and dried. I am just telling you what I know to be true in football from someone that knows more about the rules than most people will ever dream of knowing.
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Of course there may be situations where multiple rules must be simultaneously considered and discretion is allowed by an official in interpreting those rules, but that doesn't mean that a clear rule that was not enforced, as in this case, should give the officials a pass. They blew it. Maybe they realized they blew it by not reviewing the play for a Flagrant 1, and tried to correct that error, but once they put the ball in play it's too late, thus creating another error. Fortunately, unlike the Minnesota game, it didn't cost the Hawks.
 


Yes...serious...Showalter flopped...faked...wasn't a red mark on him...and he did the typical pull the player at the waist Badger move taught by Bo ain't the officiating awful Ryan...

They play dirty...when he grabbed Jok, the phantom elbow hit was from Jok trying to keep his balance...terrible call...it was a spirit of the law vs the letter of the law call that needed to be made.

Yes, the fake hit by Pemsl...terrible as well...

Sure hope Showalter can his work his way out of the concussion protocol...
 


The biggest thing to me was WHAT CHANGED after Jok's first free throw. Suddenly after they gave the ball to Jok and let him shoot a free throw...THEN one of the refs decided he saw contact to the head and needed to review it? That does not make sense. Either you saw contact to the head right when it happened or you didn't.

My only assumption is that he was watching the video review on the bigscreen and saw it and then decided to go back and review it after it was too late. What the refs did there was pathetic.
 


mopkins said:
The biggest thing to me was WHAT CHANGED after Jok's first free throw. Suddenly after they gave the ball to Jok and let him shoot a free throw...THEN one of the refs decided he saw contact to the head and needed to review it? That does not make sense. Either you saw contact to the head right when it happened or you didn't.

My only assumption is that he was watching the video review on the bigscreen and saw it and then decided to go back and review it after it was too late. What the refs did there was pathetic.
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I think it was Wiskys coaches yelling at them to look at it is what brought it to their attention. To me there has to be a line in the sand as to when you can go back and make changes. The fact there's a written in ink rule saying once the ball has been put back in play it's done hence once Jok shot the free throw that should have been it.

That said it was a good call. They called the foul on the Wisky kid for having his arm wrapped around Joks waist. Then what Jok did wasn't an intentional wack or anything yet he did get the elbow above his shoulders. If they'd have called it that way before Joks free throw there'd have been no discussion about it really. I'm glad he missed that first free throw that sequence ended up a + 1 for us.
 


Hawkfnntn said:
I think it was Wiskys coaches yelling at them to look at it is what brought it to their attention. To me there has to be a line in the sand as to when you can go back and make changes. The fact there's a written in ink rule saying once the ball has been put back in play it's done hence once Jok shot the free throw that should have been it.

That said it was a good call. They called the foul on the Wisky kid for having his arm wrapped around Joks waist. Then what Jok did wasn't an intentional wack or anything yet he did get the elbow above his shoulders. If they'd have called it that way before Joks free throw there'd have been no discussion about it really. I'm glad he missed that first free throw that sequence ended up a + 1 for us.
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I didn't mind the actual call. I thought it was questionable at best, but he did make contact to the head.

I have a HUGE issue with the fact that it was reviewed after the free throw. Can you imagine if there was like 10 seconds left in the game and Iowa took the lead on that first Jok free throw? Then the refs reviewed the previous play and awarded the Badgers a couple flagrant free throws? If you say "well they wouldn't have done it in that situation" then it proves my point. The rules are the rules. Once the ball is live nothing can be reviewed.
 








WindsorHawk said:
The refs missed calls all night. Some were actually to our benefit.
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True. At the end of the game after Jok's last shot in the lane, a wisconsin player pulled Pemsl down on the rebound. Pemsl may not have gotten that rebound had not been standing where he was. But having been pulled to the floor, the ball fell right into his hands. It's a crazy game.

That being said. The officials erred by reviewing it after the ball was made live. I don't care who says I'm not qualified to interpret the rules. I say baloney.
 


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