I'd trade fast paced/high scoring for defense

L

Linesetter

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't want Todd Lickliter mind you but giving up 79, 95, 93 with a team that returned so many players and minutes is ridiculous.

Defense is at least something you can rely on game to game
 
What happened to the defensive effort against MIch just two weeks ago.

We look so confused now, not switching well, two guys guarding air when in zone, helping when not needed and leaving guys open.

Fran looks very frustrated like he is reaching at straws with subbing and player roles.
 
If you only play on one end of the floor its going to be frustrating either way. If we are going to lose, I would rather watch a game like last night than a game in the 60's. What happened the last 2 games is a 50-50 mix of bad defense and the other team shooting out of their mind. Like the Craft lover said, most teams don't shoot that well in an open gym with no one guarding them.
 
PCHawk said:
If you only play on one end of the floor its going to be frustrating either way. If we are going to lose, I would rather watch a game like last night than a game in the 60's. What happened the last 2 games is a 50-50 mix of bad defense and the other team shooting out of their mind. Like the Craft lover said, most teams don't shoot that well in an open gym with no one guarding them.
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Sure, I would rather lose a high scoring, entertaining game than a boring, low scoring game, but losing is losing. If we won all of our games 48-44, I wouldn't complain, either.

But the defense has to improve. To me, playing up-tempo doesn't have to mean "no defense". See the 2nd Michigan game.

Is it just me, or do we get absolutely killed by dribble penetration?
 
The rebounding has been atrocious. I don't know where these guys went, but early in the year they killed it on the boards, now there is no effort there it seems.
 
I like fast paced games...but I love pressure defense...Fran has disappointed me with how little he presses...I had hopes when he came here we would be run and gun...but he has been very measured. With the supposed "depth" of this team...we should have gone "Loyola-Marymount" on the BIG.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
Sure, I would rather lose a high scoring, entertaining game than a boring, low scoring game, but losing is losing. If we won all of our games 48-44, I wouldn't complain, either.

But the defense has to improve. To me, playing up-tempo doesn't have to mean "no defense". See the 2nd Michigan game.

Is it just me, or do we get absolutely killed by dribble penetration?
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Everyone would rather win a low scoring game than lose a high scoring one. But if you are going to compare the two, you have to compare apples to apples. Would you rather win a high scoring game than win a low scoring game? Would you rather lose a high scoring game than lose a low scoring game. Saying you would rather win a low scoring game than lose a high scoring game is just as productive as saying you would rather win a high scoring game than lose a high scoring game.

This isn't directed at you as much as it is everyone else that brings up pace of play as the reason we play bad defense and lose games. It's like all our problems will be solved if we play the "kill the shot clock" game.

And yes we do get killed on penetration worse that and Asian girl in a gangbang.
 
Why is it so hard for some to understand pace of play. Saying you'd trade a slower pace for good defense, is just strange; it's like saying you'd trade picture clarity of your TV, for fuel efficiency in your car. Those things aren't related in the least bit.

You can play great defense, while playing fast or slow. Last year Iowa wasn't a bad defensive team, and this year they've been okay outside of the last couple of games, where they have been atrocious. Lickliter's teams didn't give up many points (merely a function of a slow pace), but were awful on defensive, look at points/possessions to get a better idea.
 
Linesetter said:
I wouldn't want Todd Lickliter mind you but giving up 79, 95, 93 with a team that returned so many players and minutes is ridiculous.

Defense is at least something you can rely on game to game
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Lickliter's teams didn't play good defense.
 
Hawkstrat said:
Why is it so hard for some to understand pace of play. Saying you'd trade a slower pace for good defense, is just strange; it's like saying you'd trade picture clarity of your TV, for fuel efficiency in your car. Those things aren't related in the least bit.

You can play great defense, while playing fast or slow. Last year Iowa wasn't a bad defensive team, and this year they've been okay outside of the last couple of games, where they have been atrocious. Lickliter's teams didn't give up many points (merely a function of a slow pace), but were awful on defensive, look at points/possessions to get a better idea.
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People look at points scored way too much. Shooting percentage matters way more (though even that's flawed since if you have somewhat low shooting percentage but make a lot of threes that can make up for it.)
 
Last year's defense with this year offense and this team is amazing. Hell, play the defense we played just a couple weeks ago and we're fine. The last three games have been dreadful (except for one short stretch vs Wisconsin). I can't explain it.

It's sucked ever since that beam fell.
 
PCHawk said:
Everyone would rather win a low scoring game than lose a high scoring one. But if you are going to compare the two, you have to compare apples to apples. Would you rather win a high scoring game than win a low scoring game? Would you rather lose a high scoring game than lose a low scoring game. Saying you would rather win a low scoring game than lose a high scoring game is just as productive as saying you would rather win a high scoring game than lose a high scoring game.

This isn't directed at you as much as it is everyone else that brings up pace of play as the reason we play bad defense and lose games. It's like all our problems will be solved if we play the "kill the shot clock" game.

And yes we do get killed on penetration worse that and Asian girl in a gangbang.
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Oh I definitely agree. Outcome aside, I would much rather see up-tempo for sure. I'm just saying, if we're losing because we can't score, or we're losing because we can't get stops, it doesn't matter much to me. Losing is losing, winning is winning. I don't much care how we do it. But yeah, if we're going to lose, it may as well at least be entertaining to watch.
 
bcl20 said:
Lickliter's teams didn't play good defense.
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Correct. I think someone once pointed out that Lick's teams were near the bottom of the league in FG% Defense. That is not good D. People can trot out all of the "PPG allowed" stats they want, but that is simply a result of the pace of play. No one was going to score 100 points in a game involving Lick's Iowa teams.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
Correct. I think someone once pointed out that Lick's teams were near the bottom of the league in FG% Defense. That is not good D. People can trot out all of the "PPG allowed" stats they want, but that is simply a result of the pace of play. No one was going to score 100 points in a game involving Lick's Iowa teams.
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His bread and butter was supposed to be defense yet it got worse every year he was hear. The only advantage pace of play gives you is it keeps the game closer than it should be meaning you have a better shot of stealing one or two games but one or two games are pretty meaningless in this sport.
 
This team doesn't seem to have the athletes or attitude needed to play consistently good defense. Several guys are just slow for BIG and either get beat or foul trying to keep up. A couple real bad fouls yesterday as guys dribbled faster than we could keep up and block calls gave IU bonus free throws when they we far from hoop. This happens to a lot.
Slow guys being a 1/2 step late to close on 3 point shooter as ball is swung to their side has led to many open looks and lately teams are hitting this at high rates against Hawks.

The fast pace style is more fun to watch,but Fran will have to fill the roster with athletic guys to really take advantage of it.
Go Hawks,time is now to turn this ship around.
 
brozley said:
This team doesn't seem to have the athletes or attitude needed to play consistently good defense. Several guys are just slow for BIG and either get beat or foul trying to keep up. A couple real bad fouls yesterday as guys dribbled faster than we could keep up and block calls gave IU bonus free throws when they we far from hoop. This happens to a lot.
Slow guys being a 1/2 step late to close on 3 point shooter as ball is swung to their side has led to many open looks and lately teams are hitting this at high rates against Hawks.

The fast pace style is more fun to watch,but Fran will have to fill the roster with athletic guys to really take advantage of it.
Go Hawks,time is now to turn this ship around.
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I don't buy the half step late to close on the 3 as being "too slow". There have been plenty times earlier in the year where McCabe (i'm using him as an example because he is one of our slowest guys) closed out plenty quick to prevent the 3 because he was hustling. Lately when players have been closing out they half *** it almost like they don't Carr if they shoot. It's a hustle thing not an athletic thing.
 
bcl20 said:
Last year's defense with this year offense and this team is amazing. Hell, play the defense we played just a couple weeks ago and we're fine. The last three games have been dreadful (except for one short stretch vs Wisconsin). I can't explain it.

It's sucked ever since that beam fell.
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Agree. The Hawkeye Mojo was sitting in the seats where the beam fell.
 
PCHawk said:
I don't buy the half step late to close on the 3 as being "too slow". There have been plenty times earlier in the year where McCabe (i'm using him as an example because he is one of our slowest guys) closed out plenty quick to prevent the 3 because he was hustling. Lately when players have been closing out they half *** it almost like they don't Carr if they shoot. It's a hustle thing not an athletic thing.
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You cannot ignore the 3 games in 6 days with lots of travel factor. That is not normal for teams late in the year. We have played tired this week, and rusty vs Wis.....all due to that falling beam.

Sorry, but Fran is still in transition....the fast paced style requires more athletes, and he is still working with guys who do not fit his style of ball. He will attract more athletes as we go along because athletes like to play fast.
At Siena, he had lots of quick 6'6'' type of wing guys....not yet at Iowa....but they will come. If we were playing slow, we would never attract the kinds of athletes to win big.
 
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