You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position defens

[uihawk82]

I have to say that the game of college basketball was a much more beautiful thing to watch in the '60s and '70s.

Players played position defense with their feet, very little hand checking and bumping. You could vertically get in position and cut off a driving player but when players went up for jump shots they were not routinely bumped and pushed with no fouls called.

The inside game was cleaner and more vertical. There wasnt all this hacking and grabbing. Guys like Nix need to get ejected once in a while.

But then Bob Knight, UNLV and especially the Big East in the early 80's changed that with the attacking styles.

What we are seeing now is who can make a basket or get a rebound while being totally banged and bodied up and hacked across the wrists.

And after all the rough play is allowed the refs will call some ticky tack hand check 30 feet from the bucket, incredible. Or call a block where it was all ball as a foul just because they think it had to be a foul.

 

[sportstalent]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

So refs not doing their job stems from the 80's?

It comes down to each conference not forcing the officials to do it right by barring them from calling games. Officials are independent and have nobody but each individual conference to answer to. On top of it these same jokers subsequently end up working NCAA tournament games because they have no governing body to monitor their performance.

Nothing to do with one coach or conference, it has everything to do with everyone involved not making these guys accountable.

 

[uihawk82]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

So refs not doing their job stems from the 80's?

It comes down to each conference not forcing the officials to do it right by barring them from calling games. Officials are independent and have nobody but each individual conference to answer to. On top of it these same jokers subsequently end up working NCAA tournament games because they have no governing body to monitor their performance.

Nothing to do with one coach or conference, it has everything to do with everyone involved not making these guys accountable.

I should have added that when bball got so much more physical and actually in your jersey that if the refs called it close 15 guys would foul out of each game.

How many of you are old enough to remember all the fights and ejections of the early Big East? How many of you remember the thuggery of Bill Musselman's gophers in the late 70s?

Prior to that you could take a jump shot without being assaulted, a hand in the face yes, but not bumped.

 

[eveningnewsteam]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

If officials actually made teams play good fundamental defense the games would take 4 hours. And I'd be all for it if thats what it took to clean up the game.

 

[1hawkeye1]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

If officials actually made teams play good fundamental defense the games would take 4 hours. And I'd be all for it if thats what it took to clean up the game.

Agree. I'd start with hand checking. Cause that turns into grabbing, then holding, then bumping. That never used to be allowed, but somehow has become part of the game and I hate it.

 

[sportstalent]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

Agree. I'd start with hand checking. Cause that turns into grabbing, then holding, then bumping. That never used to be allowed, but somehow has become part of the game and I hate it.

Jay Bilas has been a huge advocate for changing the way the game is called. This is top on his list, take the hand checking out of the game. Guys like Craft would foul out in the first half if he wasn't taken out.

The best quote from Bilas I heard was this: "Teams today are being called good defensive teams because refs won't call fouls. It is not good defense to grab, to bump guys going through the lane on cuts, going over the back with contact because they are taller, it is just not good defense."

There are a few Big Ten teams that would suffer from this if the refs called the game by just focusing on those things right there and that is a small part of the game, but would be big in the end as teams could not just manhandle others at times, then the refs completely put the whistle away after they have lost control.

 

[sportstalent]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

I should have added that when bball got so much more physical and actually in your jersey that if the refs called it close 15 guys would foul out of each game.

How many of you are old enough to remember all the fights and ejections of the early Big East? How many of you remember the thuggery of Bill Musselman's gophers in the late 70s?

Prior to that you could take a jump shot without being assaulted, a hand in the face yes, but not bumped.

I am not old enough, but heard plenty of stories and saw a lot of highlights like Rudy T getting his jaw blown out.

The consistency of officials throughout a game is what makes them be so criticized and questioned time and time again.

 

[Seth53]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

As much as I loathe Dickie-V, he did make a recent comment I agree with.....college BB refs (and some say FB refs) should be hired fulltime by the conferences and that would be their only job.

Would take away some of the inconsistencies seen with people doing a difficult job only part time.

 

[sportstalent]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

As much as I loathe Dickie-V, he did make a recent comment I agree with.....college BB refs (and some say FB refs) should be hired fulltime by the conferences and that would be their only job.

Would take away some of the inconsistencies seen with people doing a difficult job only part time.

Yes and they would have an advisory board to monitor them as I stated earlier that they needed. Bilas is a big advocate of hiring them full time as well. Basketball Official development is needed, I don't think they do a whole lot in the offseason to change or improve how they call games and that is in part of not having someone to really answer too.

 

[trj]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

Agree. I'd start with hand checking. Cause that turns into grabbing, then holding, then bumping. That never used to be allowed, but somehow has become part of the game and I hate it.

This.


Look how much more free flowing the NBA game is now compared to the late 90's and early 2000's. Calling hand checking and the brawl in Detroit have what made the NBA such a better product on the court now than 10-14 years ago.

Blame the Pistons of the late 80's and early 90's for some of this, their grab and hold, grind it out basketball permeated through out the NBA and eventually trickled down to college basketball.

 

[Klondike53226]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

I should have added that when bball got so much more physical and actually in your jersey that if the refs called it close 15 guys would foul out of each game.

How many of you are old enough to remember all the fights and ejections of the early Big East? How many of you remember the thuggery of Bill Musselman's gophers in the late 70s?

Prior to that you could take a jump shot without being assaulted, a hand in the face yes, but not bumped.

Perhaps ladies basketball is a game more apt to your sensibilities, because your quarrels are not with the officials, but rather human physiology. The basketball court has maintained identical dimensions since the 1970's, yet the players are significantly larger juxtaposed to athletes from 40 years past. Additionally, contemporary athletes, on the average, posses considerably more strength and speed than their fore bearers. That the game is more physical is not a symptom of poor officiating, but rather the logical aftermath of adding more matter and energy into a closed system.

 

[sportstalent]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

This.


Look how much more free flowing the NBA game is now compared to the late 90's and early 2000's. Calling hand checking and the brawl in Detroit have what made the NBA such a better product on the court now than 10-14 years ago.

Blame the Pistons of the late 80's and early 90's for some of this, their grab and hold, grind it out basketball permeated through out the NBA and eventually trickled down to college basketball.

The NBA has improved because the talent is back on the upswing. The basketball in the 80's and 90's was not bad until there was no talent to backfill the good and great players that were leaving the game.

Some of the rule changes have made a difference and they were needed, but the talent is a lot better today than it was 15 years ago as well. People don't like the one and done, but it has separated some of the guys that would have been high picks and exposed them for not being very good.

 

[atxhawk]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

Perhaps ladies basketball is a game more apt to your sensibilities, because your quarrels are not with the officials, but rather human physiology. The basketball court has maintained identical dimensions since the 1970's, yet the players are significantly larger juxtaposed to athletes from 40 years past. Additionally, contemporary athletes, on the average, posses considerably more strength and speed than their fore bearers. That the game is more physical is not a symptom of poor officiating, but rather the logical aftermath of adding more matter and energy into a closed system.

Women's basketball is often officiated worse than the men's game, at least at the lower levels. At first I thought it was just my tinted glasses since I have a daughter playing AAU ball. But last year after I got done watching her rugby game I went back in to watch the boys game being played afterwards. The same crew was calling the game but calling it tighter than they called the girls game.

Totally agree with the OP though. The game of basketball is devolving into more of a football game than basketball. How many times a game do you see somebody driving the lane tuck the ball away like it was a football? The amount of contact that is allowed these days is ridiculous. To those who think the games would end up taking 4 hours with 10 people fouling out, it may be that way for the first couple games, but would change quickly. Of course that all depends on the refs being CONSISTENT in their calls. Nothing more frustrating for a player and coach than inconsistent refs. If the refs set the tone right away that they are going to call the fouls and force players to play basketball, then the players will adjust or sit. Of course this all depends on the officials being CONSISTENT in their calls.

If the officials are going to be full time then they need to be reviewed by committee and only be on one-year, renewable contracts. If they do not make the grade, then they do not get hired for the next season. They can of course re-apply for the next season with a resume of doing games at whatever level from the previous year. The review committees should consist of league coaches, non-league officials, and maybe a couple of outsiders that are experts in basketball, like other coaches, scouts, former players. . .

 

[MisterLucky]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

We're a violent society. I think the physical changes in the way the game of basketball is officiated is a reflection on that fact.

 

[ILHawk]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

It gets down to the fact that less talented teams can even the field by playing rough. Iowa included.

 

[TheeHawkeye]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

They really let the hand checking go now. On one of the final possessions for Iowa, Gessel got denied to the basket by Appling with his hands and there was no call. They need to cut down on it more.

 

[83Hawk]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

Perhaps ladies basketball is a game more apt to your sensibilities, because your quarrels are not with the officials, but rather human physiology. The basketball court has maintained identical dimensions since the 1970's, yet the players are significantly larger juxtaposed to athletes from 40 years past. Additionally, contemporary athletes, on the average, posses considerably more strength and speed than their fore bearers. That the game is more physical is not a symptom of poor officiating, but rather the logical aftermath of adding more matter and energy into a closed system.

Simply not true. Would love to see the proof of your assertion. Care to provide a link?

Hand checking, pushing, bumping, etc. are either fouls or they are not. Athletes having more speed and strength has nothing to do with it.

 

[uihawk82]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

It gets down to the fact that less talented teams can even the field by playing rough. Iowa included.

Very true but I dont think of Iowa as playing a very physical, rough and tumble game of bball.

 

[uihawk82]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

Perhaps ladies basketball is a game more apt to your sensibilities, because your quarrels are not with the officials, but rather human physiology. The basketball court has maintained identical dimensions since the 1970's, yet the players are significantly larger juxtaposed to athletes from 40 years past. Additionally, contemporary athletes, on the average, posses considerably more strength and speed than their fore bearers. That the game is more physical is not a symptom of poor officiating, but rather the logical aftermath of adding more matter and energy into a closed system.

Give me a break. I would take Lew Alcindor's (Kareem Abdul Jabbar's) and Bill Walton's UCLA teams over any team in the Big 10 this year. And size-wise you are talking lots of 6-10 to 7 foot one inch centers and 6-8 to 6-10 power powers like Sidney wicks and many others and maybe one of the great fast guard court combos in bball in Lucious Allen and Mike Warren. The Louisville teams in the lates 60s and 70s had plenty of big players and others who could flat out run. Players now are let to play out of control by refs and coaches. Nix at MSU is a good example.

I agree with what this poster said below about giving me proof:

Simply not true. Would love to see the proof of your assertion. Care to provide a link?

Hand checking, pushing, bumping, etc. are either fouls or they are not. Athletes having more speed and strength has nothing to do with it.

 

[uihawk82]

Re: You want purer basketball then call hacks as fouls and make them play position de

So refs not doing their job stems from the 80's?

It comes down to each conference not forcing the officials to do it right by barring them from calling games. Officials are independent and have nobody but each individual conference to answer to. On top of it these same jokers subsequently end up working NCAA tournament games because they have no governing body to monitor their performance.

Nothing to do with one coach or conference, it has everything to do with everyone involved not making these guys accountable.

I totally agree that bball refs need to work for the conf. I still say that they favor certain coaches and teams because those schools hire them for more money (probably) to ref all those non-conf games and pre-conf tourney games.