tubahawk
Well-Known Member
If that is the case and there is no hope for Iowa, then somebody should tell Barta to stop spending money on coaching and facilities like it could be a top 10 program.
Where the FBS signees come from
- Thread starter khock
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If that is the case and there is no hope for Iowa, then somebody should tell Barta to stop spending money on coaching and facilities like it could be a top 10 program.
FreedComanche
Banned
People want to believe that top talent from across the country want to play at Iowa over OSU, USC, Oregon and SEC teams, not gonna happen.
Who believes that?
It isn't that KF and staff aren't selling the Iowa program "good enough" but it is a hard sell and it is equally as hard for the homers out there to accept it.
Of course.
I personally think Iowa can do better at recruiting in which players they recruit but to me that comes down to evaluation system. I know it probably isn't that easy but something seems to be wrong. Maybe it is KF and staff, maybe it isn't, who knows.
As much as I'm critical of ferentz, any coach would be in a tough situation at Iowa if the expectations are 9 wins per year. I think the only way that Iowa could be made into a top ten team year in and year out, is if Saban takes the Iowa job but has a recruiting office in the state of Alabama. Then, even, I'm not sure you could make Iowa into a top ten team.
FreedComanche
Who believes that?
It isn't that KF and staff aren't selling the Iowa program "good enough" but it is a hard sell and it is equally as hard for the homers out there to accept it.
Of course.
I personally think Iowa can do better at recruiting in which players they recruit but to me that comes down to evaluation system. I know it probably isn't that easy but something seems to be wrong. Maybe it is KF and staff, maybe it isn't, who knows.
As much as I'm critical of ferentz, any coach would be in a tough situation at Iowa if the expectations are 9 wins per year. I think the only way that Iowa could be made into a top ten team year in and year out, is if Saban takes the Iowa job but has a recruiting office in the state of Alabama. Then, even, I'm not sure you could make Iowa into a top ten team.
FreedComanche
HawkinGoferLand
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by HawkeyeMcNutt
Or send a recruit 54 handwritten emails..
Know why it sounds weird? Read it again.
must be Windows 8 because I can't do that on my pc!
You clearly are missing the point, the reason they pump money into Ferentz's Salary and facilities is because the program makes money. If he was winning but had a bad fan base or didn't get good donations, they would stop spending that money. Let's be honest here folks, this is a business. You don't cut the life blood of a business that spews money.
My point Freed is that most people critical of KF and staff in recruiting are all pizzed off over star ratings and team rankings in conference and nationally. The only way to move those things up is to have better recruiting but how? People who critize just pizz and moan but really actually think about how it all works and the reality of Iowa. Iowa isn't a national name that recruits grow up all over the country dreaming about playing at. So how does Iowa get them? That is the question, how but people think that Iowa is sooo amazing that if only KF wasn't so stupid he could sell it better.
People need to deal with reality. Yes, we all want Iowa to win and be a top ten program but the reality is that most likely Iowa isn't going to get there with KF or anyone else.
Dream, dream big, but don't lose sight of reality.
ColoradoHAWKEYE
Well-Known Member
BINGO. My thoughts too.
Thinking the midwest mentality (regarding ia, mn & nebby anyhow) of "trying" to be well-rounded, affects the specialization in 1 or 2 sports that other states have. Even at the big schools in iowa (always in the small schools), it seems the same "athletes" represent in multiple sports (of course, this is a population thing as well).
[I only state this off of the fact that my friend's and former neighbor's kids in other states, (while some are in fact pretty talented), only participate in 1 specialized sport, period.]
rschneider
Well-Known Member
Agree.
Look at Wisconsin, 1/3 more students than Iowa, but over 2/3 more recruits than Iowa. My high school was never really good at any sport but everyone in town showed up for football games, parents need to start cementing athletics in their kids brains. It starts with you old farts on Hawkeyenation.
tubahawk
Well-Known Member
The flaw I see with that reasoning is the program will make money as long as the team wins 7-8 games per year on average. Does it really take a $4 million year coaching salary and top-shelf facilities to maintain a 7-8 game win average? I don't think it does.
FreedComanche
Banned
Yes to what you say. But then how do you explain the rise to national status of Oregon and K State? They are both just as difficult to recruit to, yet they over came that.
FreedComanche
I
ILHawk
Guest
Wow Dave, you call me negative? Whew....
I do think one of the probs that KF has now is that he DOESN"T recruit enough Iowa kids that WANT to be Hawkeyes and HAVE passion about being a Hawkeye as opposed to marginal kids from other states that want a ticket to be on an NFL special teams squad or are tickled pink that someone BCS wanted them. The number of Iowa kids on the roster is declining.
To Feed C, Oregon can be explained. I think it's called rule bending.
Dave a problem with your thesis is that we aren't hitting your mediocre bar very well.
When you have lesser talent you have to have some advantage over your competition. Be it better coaching, playing with spirit or anger, a crazy home crowd...something. We aren't getting that under KF anymore. Well actually outside of the crowd, the KF teams didn't have that as much as good defensive and O line talent. That's gone too.
I am being realistic IL, just like you in basketball, however you want people to realistic about this years team but I am talking in general about Iowa football. Some fans have this perception that Iowa should be a top 10 every year and should be able to recruit with the big boys. This isn't reality, I am not saying that I can't win because they proved it just not consistently at a high level. But come on people need to learn that Iowa doesn't have the tradition that those other top-tier schools have.
Plus I think most of the time this comes from the fans that are ticked off about KF's salary (And to those fansI say in the words of Scorp, "U jus jelly"). His salary is irrelevant in this argument because KF's program makes millions of dollars of revenue for the athletic department. It's all about the money, not just wins. As long as KF is winning enough to not affect donations, ticket sales and apparell sales he is going to be the coach and he is going to get his salary.
Most of the time my posts are asking those "fans" who are pizzing and moaning about how bad KF and staff is at recruiting to actually explain how they can do better and be realistic about their explanations. No one ever responds because they can't. Too much homerism for their school/team but too much hatred for KF to really know what the heck they are talking about. At most you get a "KF sucks" or "KF gets big bucks to do nothing, why recruit he has guaranteed money" or may personal favorite "KF hates Iowa". Yes, a coach who brings in his son to be his O-line coach after he was starting to build a good resume in the NFL doesn't care and he just wants to let the program die, screw the players and other coaches careers, KF is getting paid.
I am mad at the fans with the attitude that Iowa should be better because of KF's salary. If he was paid $10 a year or $10 million a year it is irrelevant as long as people are still paying tickets, apparell and tickets. If those drop, KF will be dropped along with it (eventually due to his HUGE contract).
Do I want Iowa to be good and in the top 10 every year, hell yes! But the issue here is what I WANT for Iowa and what is reality of what can most likely happen.
I have to disagree with you on more Iowa kids. Realistically, Iowa has what like 2-4 at most BCS level players in a normal year. Normally 1-2 of them go outside the state to a major program. But the rest can play Div. 1 but at non-high major school (outside of B1G, SEC, PAC-12, B12, Big East). To me KF and staff has lacked the last 5-6 years at developing a large number of those walk-ons or 2* guys into better players as they did in his first 7-8 years.
I mean if you take Bob Sanders, Robert Gallery and Dallas Clark out of the picture, is Iowa a top level developmental program, in my opinion no. That came from their success in college and going on and getting drafted and having good/great careers in the NFL.
But that is lacking now, maybe you're right, maybe it is on the type of player who Iowa recruits, maybe kids who grow up in Iowa have a better work ethic, I don't know. But to me, Iowa needs more talent or they need to get back to the basics with kids who will work harder and have that drive to succeed at the highest level.
I
ILHawk
Guest
Dave, I basically agree. What I miss is the years of not being top 10, but being competitive and thinking we had a decent chance against anyone on any day. And even if it didn't work out, the enemy (I mean opponent), knew they's been in a fight. That to me is the big disconnect with Iowa football now. Play it close. Play to not lose. Execute right, but leave out emotion and spirit.
I admit I'm just now getting back to paying attention to college basketball. For the first time in years I don't have a sick stomach about Iowa playing Illinois and being embarrassed. That said, they'd better come to play. Illinois is very dangerous right now. The biggest change are: Griffey and Egwu are more involved. Egwu has a lot of upside. And Brandon Paul is learning to be a team player and play defense. What has destroyed Iowa against IL in the past is big men tearing it up from outside. Griffey is back. Egwau is coming on. IL can dribble drive and dribble shoot. A thorn to Iowa all year.
I admit I'm just now getting back to paying attention to college basketball. For the first time in years I don't have a sick stomach about Iowa playing Illinois and being embarrassed. That said, they'd better come to play. Illinois is very dangerous right now. The biggest change are: Griffey and Egwu are more involved. Egwu has a lot of upside. And Brandon Paul is learning to be a team player and play defense. What has destroyed Iowa against IL in the past is big men tearing it up from outside. Griffey is back. Egwau is coming on. IL can dribble drive and dribble shoot. A thorn to Iowa all year.
tubahawk
Well-Known Member
I have no issue with tempered expectations. At the end of the day if it is a "business" as you put previously you don't shell out top 10 resources ($$) and then be okay with mid-level success because your able to pay the bills.
If we understand our program is limited in the success it can obtain then there is no reason to dump larger amounts of money into the program if we can obtain those same results with less money spent.
If we're going to dump Top 10 money into the program then the expectation should be top 10 results. If its not possible to get Top 10 results, then why spend top 10 money?
There is a difference, huge difference between being able to "pay the bills" and making a large profit. I know you understand how business works but clearly you are missing the point in this case.
I seriously don't understand this obsession with people and KF's salary. As long as Iowa football continues to bring in lots of money and the donors are happy, his salary is irrelevant. Plain and simple, people need to get over it or stop spending their money. This isn't like state or federal government taxes, you do have the right to not spend your money on Iowa football.
Again, you spend top 10 money because they make even more money in return.
Tuba, I agree that it is POSSIBLE that if Iowa fires Ferentz that they MIGHT get a coach who comes and takes Iowa to a new level but the odds aren't there to think it is logical at this point. Each person individually has to weight the POSSIBLE against the idea of what MIGHT happen, it's called RISK.
I was ready after this past season for KF to be gone, but with the coaching changes, I am ok with giving him another couple seasons. Then again, I don't have a real say in it.
I agree that Nebraska has overcome the geographical recruiting disadvantages that Iowa hasn't, however their tradition of winning is much higher than Iowa's. That might have to do with some of their success.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
We were like Oregon and K State at one point. We finished top 10 several season in a row. I think the hard part is keeping that level of success. Lets see how both of those programs look 5 years from now. For instance look at a Okie St or Wisky. In the national lime light several years in a row, and dropped off this year (I know Wisky went to Rose Bowl, but they didn't deserve that). Do they bounce back up? We will see.
Even the blue bloods have down year, but always come back. When you aren't a blue blood, you can have great success for a span of time, but it always seems that time runs out for the non blue bloods, and is much harder to bring back. That is why what Snyder has done at K State is so amazing.
tubahawk
Well-Known Member
First, it's more than KF's salary. It's the new practice facility, weight room etc. We're putting up these new buildings to compete with other schools shiny new buildings. KF's salary is part of the whole investment of the program.
At the end of the day it doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me if KF is paid $100,000/yr or $10 mill/yr. But typically when a program pays the kind of money Iowa is paying it is a signal to the world that we are playing to win and not we're playing for mid-pack. That's why I feel it's significant. In no way does it make sense to pay top dollar then pretend your okay with mid-pack results.
