Wisky ain't going away any time soon....

SpiderRico

SpiderRico

Well-Known Member
In my mind, as I was watching that shit show unfold Saturday, I thought to myself, "Well, other than Jonathan Taylor, most of those guys should be gone after this year, so that should bode well for us." Based on the way they were playing, I assumed most of those guys were seniors.

Then I go and look at their two deep and find out they are just as young as we are!

For example, our OL goes Freshman, Junior, Junior, Senior, Freshman. Theirs goes Sophomore, Junior, Freshman, Junior, Sophomore. And their center, who was kicking our ass up and down the field all day on those pulls he did around the tackle....yep, he's a freshman. So how is it that their freshman OL kicks our ass, but ours are "young"?

Next year, on defense, they return their NT (most important position in a 3-4), 3 of their 4 LBs (plus Cichy, who's currently injured), and their leading tackler at S (Dixon). Not to mention, their entire OL and Taylor at RB.

So then my question is.....if us and Wisky essentially get the same level of recruits, at least according the the rating services, and if our starters are roughly equal in age, at least as far as position groups go, then why are we so far behind, developmentally, than they are? I understand the "haters" answer will be "Well, because Ferments (or some other lame ass nickname) is our coach!"....but seriously....what is it that they are doing day in and day out, week in and week out, over the summer, in the spring, etc that makes them so much more prepared and polished on a consistent basis than we are?
 
Or, ask how they flipped the script on us the past few years? Iowa used to kick WI's butt up and down the field not all that long ago.

I remember the Shonn Greene game......
 
HawksMN said:
Or, ask how they flipped the script on us the past few years? Iowa used to kick WI's butt up and down the field not all that long ago.

I remember the Shonn Greene game......
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From 1977 thru 1996, we didn't lose a single game to them....16 wins and 1 tie.

Then, when we stunk from 1997 thru 2001, they won 5 straight.

Once KF got the ship turned around, from 2002 thru 2009, we went 6-2 against them....with all of our wins being by double digits (avg margin of 15 points) and their 2 wins coming by a combined 7 points total.

Then 2010 happened (fake punt game). From that point forward, we have lost 5 of 6 against them, with our only win being a lucky win after the fumble at the goal line by Stave. In the 5 games since that 2010 game, our offense has scored a total of 52 points.

We gotta get this figured out.....
 
Right now Wisconsin is just on a different level than Iowa. They have won 5 of 6. Won 4 in a row at Kinnick, haven’t lost there since 2008. It’s hardly a rivalry at this point.

And I don’t think it has to do with talent. Iowa is on fairly equal footing there outside of OTs and RBs. And Iowa isn’t dogshit there, it’s just that Wisconsin always has great players at those spots. Both programs struggle with QBs & WRs and excel at developing TEs, interior lineman on both LOS and defensive players in general at all 3 levels. Hell Iowa probably has more guys in the pros.

The difference is that Wisconsin is 10 times more physical and far more aggressive on defense. They don’t want to bend. They want to break the other team.

The worst part is, as bad as Iowa got dominated through 2 & 1/2 quarters on Saturday they still had an opportunity to win. Down 3, they had the ball roughly at midfield. 4 threw a dime right to 87. Hit him in stride over the shoulder and should have been a TD and Iowa is in the lead. Instead 87 drops it. Next play 84 drops a perfect pass that would have been a first down. Those 2 plays are microcosms of the season. The opportunity to do something special was there & Iowa dropped the ball
 
One position they don't have an advantage is QB and that may save us. Our OL got absolutely dominated Saturday and I doubt that happens again like that. Wiscy was able to get a ton of pressure only bringing 4, even though it seemed like they blitzed every play. There was much confusion on our inexperienced OL brought on by Wiscy's 3-4.
 
SpiderRico said:
In my mind, as I was watching that shit show unfold Saturday, I thought to myself, "Well, other than Jonathan Taylor, most of those guys should be gone after this year, so that should bode well for us." Based on the way they were playing, I assumed most of those guys were seniors.

Then I go and look at their two deep and find out they are just as young as we are!

For example, our OL goes Freshman, Junior, Junior, Senior, Freshman. Theirs goes Sophomore, Junior, Freshman, Junior, Sophomore. And their center, who was kicking our ass up and down the field all day on those pulls he did around the tackle....yep, he's a freshman. So how is it that their freshman OL kicks our ass, but ours are "young"?

Next year, on defense, they return their NT (most important position in a 3-4), 3 of their 4 LBs (plus Cichy, who's currently injured), and their leading tackler at S (Dixon). Not to mention, their entire OL and Taylor at RB.

So then my question is.....if us and Wisky essentially get the same level of recruits, at least according the the rating services, and if our starters are roughly equal in age, at least as far as position groups go, then why are we so far behind, developmentally, than they are? I understand the "haters" answer will be "Well, because Ferments (or some other lame ass nickname) is our coach!"....but seriously....what is it that they are doing day in and day out, week in and week out, over the summer, in the spring, etc that makes them so much more prepared and polished on a consistent basis than we are?
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Legit and extremely fair question to ask. It shouldn’t take to November every season to develop guys that are sophomores and up. It’s not like you start from scratch every season.

Add to that the BTN talking heads say that Iowa practices are the most similar to NFL practices as any they’ve seen and are the most organized.

Something isn’t working as well as Wisconsin does it? And something isn’t being done right if you’re developing sophomores and juniors.
 
hwk23 said:
One position they don't have an advantage is QB and that may save us. Our OL got absolutely dominated Saturday and I doubt that happens again like that. Wiscy was able to get a ton of pressure only bringing 4, even though it seemed like they blitzed every play. There was much confusion on our inexperienced OL brought on by Wiscy's 3-4.
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On Jon's twitter feed, he was talking about Wisky's blitz % being higher than any team we played this year. I completely disagree with that. They RARELY brought a 5th rusher and pretty much just rushed 4. The difference is that you never know which 4 are coming. The times they did bring a 5th, it was typically a delayed blitz straight up the middle....and the few times they did it, they just killed us.

But if we can't block 4 with 5 (sometimes 6 as Butler/Wadley would occassionally stay back in pass pro), that's terrible because this isn't something new for us....
 
SpiderRico said:
On Jon's twitter feed, he was talking about Wisky's blitz % being higher than any team we played this year. I completely disagree with that. They RARELY brought a 5th rusher and pretty much just rushed 4. The difference is that you never know which 4 are coming. The times they did bring a 5th, it was typically a delayed blitz straight up the middle....and the few times they did it, they just killed us.

But if we can't block 4 with 5 (sometimes 6 as Butler/Wadley would occassionally stay back in pass pro), that's terrible because this isn't something new for us....
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Yep, Wiscy rarely blitzed. The 4th rusher could come from anywhere. Sometimes they only had 2 DL so the other 2 rushers could be any combination of 5 other guys, not always a LB.
 
Xerxes said:
R

The difference is that Wisconsin is 10 times more physical and far more aggressive on defense. They don’t want to bend. They want to break the other team.

ll
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Perfectly said, the big difference is how physical their offense vs our defense which sits back and reads plays, bend but dont break. Check the weights on their offensive line, 15+ pounds maybe more than the hawks and they are usually moving forward and not sideways in the zone blocking scheme. They power block straight ahead and pull linemen who can move and get through the holes to block downfield.

Their offensive scheme is better with more counter action to set up blocks. The hawk zone blocking scheme was great with runners like Russell, Lewis and Young who could really stop and go back counter to the movement. Heck James Butler did that against OSU with great footwork on that big run.

The hawk defense gives up too many big 3rd down plays for may taste, always has under KF and that is the only difference in the defenses. Their defense attacks more and wants to penetrate and disrupt, get to the QB and make long yardage difficult to pickup .

A thread from yesterday asked if the hawks blocking schemes need to be looked at and maybe so.
 
SpiderRico said:
In my mind, as I was watching that shit show unfold Saturday, I thought to myself, "Well, other than Jonathan Taylor, most of those guys should be gone after this year, so that should bode well for us." Based on the way they were playing, I assumed most of those guys were seniors.

Then I go and look at their two deep and find out they are just as young as we are!

For example, our OL goes Freshman, Junior, Junior, Senior, Freshman. Theirs goes Sophomore, Junior, Freshman, Junior, Sophomore. And their center, who was kicking our ass up and down the field all day on those pulls he did around the tackle....yep, he's a freshman. So how is it that their freshman OL kicks our ass, but ours are "young"?

Next year, on defense, they return their NT (most important position in a 3-4), 3 of their 4 LBs (plus Cichy, who's currently injured), and their leading tackler at S (Dixon). Not to mention, their entire OL and Taylor at RB.

So then my question is.....if us and Wisky essentially get the same level of recruits, at least according the the rating services, and if our starters are roughly equal in age, at least as far as position groups go, then why are we so far behind, developmentally, than they are? I understand the "haters" answer will be "Well, because Ferments (or some other lame ass nickname) is our coach!"....but seriously....what is it that they are doing day in and day out, week in and week out, over the summer, in the spring, etc that makes them so much more prepared and polished on a consistent basis than we are?
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I don’t think after these last couple years that it’s safe to assume our recruiting will be as good as theirs. Wisconsin is going to recruit better and we’re going to start getting sloppy seconds and thirds even more that we already do.

The “compound interest” effect that Alabama enjoys works just as well in reverse. Or “suck mode” as I like to call it.
 
The thing that just really sucks in this whole thing is that Wisky is doing what we've been asking KF and Iowa to do for years.....be more aggressive at the point of attack and don't sit back and let offenses and defenses dictate to you. And because they're doing that, they just wrapped up their 4th division title in 5 years.

Coulda/shoulda been us....
 
Fryowa said:
I don’t think after these last couple years that it’s safe to assume our recruiting will be as good as theirs. Wisconsin is going to recruit better and we’re going to start getting sloppy seconds and thirds even more that we already do.

The “compound interest” effect that Alabama enjoys works just as well in reverse. Or “suck mode” as I like to call it.
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That remains to be seen.....Wisky is sorta like us from a recruiting standpoint in that they don't just bring in every Johnny Athlete. They require a certain type of player. Maybe they get up to the high 20's/low 30's while we stay at the mid 40's....but I don't think you'll see them change up much in the way of recruiting....they just scheme and develop better than us right now....
 
SpiderRico said:
That remains to be seen.....Wisky is sorta like us from a recruiting standpoint in that they don't just bring in every Johnny Athlete. They require a certain type of player. Maybe they get up to the high 20's/low 30's while we stay at the mid 40's....but I don't think you'll see them change up much in the way of recruiting....they just scheme and develop better than us right now....
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If they were to make the CFP then I think all bets are off. That's the kind of exposure you just can't get any other way.

I guess I see us falling off more so than Wisconsin climbing the charts.
 
Xerxes said:
Right now Wisconsin is just on a different level than Iowa. They have won 5 of 6. Won 4 in a row at Kinnick, haven’t lost there since 2008. It’s hardly a rivalry at this point.

And I don’t think it has to do with talent. Iowa is on fairly equal footing there outside of OTs and RBs. And Iowa isn’t dogshit there, it’s just that Wisconsin always has great players at those spots. Both programs struggle with QBs & WRs and excel at developing TEs, interior lineman on both LOS and defensive players in general at all 3 levels. Hell Iowa probably has more guys in the pros.

The difference is that Wisconsin is 10 times more physical and far more aggressive on defense. They don’t want to bend. They want to break the other team.

The worst part is, as bad as Iowa got dominated through 2 & 1/2 quarters on Saturday they still had an opportunity to win. Down 3, they had the ball roughly at midfield. 4 threw a dime right to 87. Hit him in stride over the shoulder and should have been a TD and Iowa is in the lead. Instead 87 drops it. Next play 84 drops a perfect pass that would have been a first down. Those 2 plays are microcosms of the season. The opportunity to do something special was there & Iowa dropped the ball
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Didn't think of it like this. Late 3rd qtr Hawks in position to take the lead. Mishaps...then it snowballed.
WI is not worlds better than Iowa folks. This can be remedied but not doing 'steady as she goes'
 
HawksMN said:
Didn't think of it like this. Late 3rd qtr Hawks in position to take the lead. Mishaps...then it snowballed.
WI is not worlds better than Iowa folks. This can be remedied but not doing 'steady as she goes'
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Bruh, we had 66 yards of offense. 66. ToP was approximately 20 minutes to 40 minutes. That is worlds better than us. Those stats are what should happen when Iowa plays some D-II team, but of course when we do that we need miracles like two blocked kicks and without miracles, we lose to teams like NDState. Face it, bud, this is a bad football team. I still have a little leakage when I think of how bad we crushed Ohio State, but one good game doesn't change the fact that we just flat out suck. Offense is ranked 117th in the country and will need a minor miracle to break into the top 100 with two weeks to go. If only we had a skilled tactician who we could bring in to call plays...
 
The Hawks have lost 5 of the last 6 to the Badgers. That's Iowa's present reality. Sure, prior to that, the Hawks won 6 of 8, but that streak ended in 2009. Some of the guys playing in the game on Saturday were in 5th grade at that time. The oldest on the field were in 9th grade. Wisconsin has controlled this series in the past few years, but it can, and probably will, change. However, we're all subject to the recency effect. That's why it's frustrating to hear Coach Ferentz say that the two teams have been fairly even over the years, while that is probably true when you look at it over the long haul - it sure doesn't feel like that right now.
 
Wisconsin being a better program than Iowa isn't new. Since 1990 when the Badgers hired Alvarez, they've won 237 games including 4 outright Big 10 titles and 5 other shared Big 10 titles. Iowa in the same stretch has 202 wins and shared 3 Big 10 titles. This isn't something new. This isn't about what happened in the fall of 2010. The Badgers had been doing better than the Hawkeyes over the long term for close to 30 years.
 
I don't think Kirk will ever beat Wisconsin again as our head coach. It may be a long, long time before we ever beat the Badgers again in football. They are so far ahead of us now as a program.
 
thefizz said:
Wisconsin being a better program than Iowa isn't new. Since 1990 when the Badgers hired Alvarez, they've won 237 games including 4 outright Big 10 titles and 5 other shared Big 10 titles. Iowa in the same stretch has 202 wins and shared 3 Big 10 titles. This isn't something new. This isn't about what happened in the fall of 2010. The Badgers had been doing better than the Hawkeyes over the long term for close to 30 years.
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http://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...dled-when-uw-stunned-hawkeyes-1997/850314001/

1977-1996
Not a single Badger victory.
Iowa also dominated the Clones and Wildcats during that same period.
IIRC KF has a pathetic record against all 3 programs.
So yeah, it's on Kirk.
 
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