What will change? Did Kirk learn anything?

Did Kirk learn anything? Will anything change?

  • Yes, there will be appreciable change

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • No, we will see this same decision-making continue

    Votes: 61 93.8%

  • Total voters
    65

grandmahawk

Well-Known Member
Most seem to agree that Kirk's decision to sit on the ball at 1:17 with two TOs was a fatal mistake. This hardly needs any further discussion.

The more important questions going forward:
1) Did Kirk learn anything?
2) Do you think Kirk will actually change anything and become more aggressive?
2b)...if not, is this a defendable decision?
 
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We can all agree that Kirk's decision to sit on the ball at 1:17 with two TOs was a fatal mistake. This hardly needs any further discussion.

The more important questions going forward:
1) Did Kirk learn anything?
2) Do you think Kirk will actually change anything and become more aggressive?
2b)...if not, is this a defendable decision?

1. No
2. No
3. No
 
I think that KF truly believes he is making the correct decisions in this close games, even if it doesn't work, and will do it again. 2009 @OSU, and the same decision yesterday. I don't see it changing.
 
I turned to my friend when after the KO in the 4th and said this remind you of anything? and then the game ended exactly the same(with a few more overtimes)
 
Most seem to agree that Kirk's decision to sit on the ball at 1:17 with two TOs was a fatal mistake. This hardly needs any further discussion.

The more important questions going forward:
1) Did Kirk learn anything?
2) Do you think Kirk will actually change anything and become more aggressive?
2b)...if not, is this a defendable decision?

How many Division I football coaches would label it a "fatal mistake"? Serious question.

For the record, I didn't like it either.
 
How many Division I football coaches would label it a "fatal mistake"? Serious question.

For the record, I didn't like it either.

Good question. Of course, few decisions in football are per se truly fatal, and any tiny change in one of the three overtimes could have led to a W for the Hawks. But it's interesting to ask whether fellow coaches -- even just Big 10 coaches -- would call it fatal...not when asked by a reporter, but spoken to himself while watching the game in the stands or on the couch. My guess is that, having watched our defense give up touchdown, touchdown, makeable but missed FG, makeable but missed FG on the previous four Cyclone drives, most coaches would say (as so many of us did): Iowa will lose.

One of the most compelling arguments I've heard yet relates to the fear of making a mistake. This was obviously Kirk's reasoning...any mistake -- a fumble, an INT, botched snap, etc. -- could leave ISU in the position to kick a game-winning FG. One mistake, game over. But, if you think about it, this same risk exists in overtime...except now the margin of error is even smaller. A sack when trying to drive down the field with 1:17 remaining hurts but is not itself necessarily fatal. But in overtime, a sack often seems to be a game-ender (see OSU in '09). So the risk of making a mistake is the same in each situation. If we accept this, and if we agree that, in both situations, one mistake ends the game, why even the playing field by sitting on the ball?
 
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I don't think anything will change.

We'll hear the same BS...."We have to do a better job executing", "We have to minimize our mistakes"

It blows my mind that KF was the only man on Saturday that didn't realize it was a BAD BAD BAD BAD IDEA to pin all your hopes to taking an ISU team to overtime after they had pushed you around the entire second half and had ALL the momentum at that point.

Sitting on 2 timeouts with 1:17 remaining, on the road, in hostile territory, with his team clinging to life, KF falls on the sword and doesn't even put up a fight.

I knew the game was lost when Iowa ran out the clock in regulation.

KF didn't learn from Ohio State in 2009. How do I know? He just did it again.

Ugh... major frustration.
 
Good question. Of course, few decisions in football are per se truly fatal, and any tiny change in one of the three overtimes could have led to a W for the Hawks. But it's interesting to ask whether fellow coaches -- even just Big 10 coaches -- would call it fatal...not when asked by a reporter, but spoken to himself while watching the game in the stands or on the couch. My guess is that, having watched our defense give up touchdown, touchdown, makeable but missed FG, makeable but missed FG on the previous four Cyclone drives, most coaches would say (as so many of us did): Iowa will lose.

One of the most compelling arguments I've heard yet relates to the fear of making a mistake. This was obviously Kirk's reasoning...any mistake -- a fumble, an INT, botched snap, etc. -- could leave ISU in the position to kick a game-winning FG. One mistake, game over. But, if you think about it, this same risk exists in overtime...except now the margin of error is even smaller. A sack when trying to drive down the field with 1:17 remaining hurts but is not itself necessarily fatal. But in overtime, a sack often seems to be a game-ender (see OSU in '09). So the risk of making a mistake is the same in each situation. If we accept this, and if we agree that, in both situations, one mistake ends the game, why even the playing field by sitting on the ball?

That's all I'm saying. The game wasn't lost by that one decision alone. The way they played, Iowa was fortunate it was as close as it was.
 
I didn't mind sitting on it to end regulation either. If the return had been over the 30 we would have seen something different.

I do think we needed to go for it on 4th and 1 in OT.
 
You can make a case for going for the FG. Easy to point fingers after an excruciating loss. Don't see much criticism when we win games with conservative play calling. How many correct decisions are made in a game that we don't hear or know about?

Unfortunately there were many facets to Iowa's game that could be pointed to that were less than desired or expected that could have made the difference as well.....K. Davis dropped pass, 150 plus kickoff return yds. for ISU for the day. Ferentz thinks we can stop them so he's going to our FG kicker who is 4 for 4 and their FG kicker/s have been 1 for 3 and not close on the misses. In hindsight, the staff underestimated the ability of Jantz in this game. How many Hawk fans were predicting this fella's ability and game performance before this game....not many.

What Ferentz may have overlooked as well, however, was that our offense was 5 for 5 in the red zone for this game so maybe should have given them a bit more credit for having the ability to put points on the board.

.....we move on.
 
Kirk will go to his grave before he ever makes adjustments or changes anything....unless absolutely forced to. It will be the same for 10 more weeks.
 
I didn't mind sitting on it to end regulation either. If the return had been over the 30 we would have seen something different.

I do think we needed to go for it on 4th and 1 in OT.

Yeah, the day had shown us we probably weren't going 70 yards in a minute. I would have opened with a throw to McNutt though to see if it was possible. 4th and 1 though I would have went. A QB sneak alone can get you that.
 
I didn't mind sitting on it to end regulation either. If the return had been over the 30 we would have seen something different.

I do think we needed to go for it on 4th and 1 in OT.

What did we gain by sitting on it in regulation? What did it cost us to do so?
 
I feel like when the time came to make the decision to sit on it or go for it in regulation... that it is something the players should have a say in.

We all know that going for it has it's risks. Sure JVB could throw an interception or someone could fumble, but that can happen in OT as well.

The coach has to trust his players. In that situation, what if KF asked JVB and the offense "what do you guys think?"

If I was one of the offensive players, I would have been fired up that my coach is giving us the chance... That he trusts us to do it. I can almost guarantee the offense would have said "we can do this" and I think they could have.

Sure, there are those games where as a player you feel like you are just holding on for dear life and you just want to end regulation in a tie, regather yourself, and then go and give it a shot in OT... and usually you don't feel like that against an inferior opponent. (Not trying to take away from how well ISU played)

I don't think this was one of those times. Watching the game I was thinking to myself "lets do this. We have the advantage now. We can put together a drive and get in FG range and at least attempt the game-winner. If we don't make it... We have another chance in OT."
If KF wants to play odds... Why not give your team 2 chances to win instead of 1?

As a player, I'm assuming it has to affect your confidence in yourself when your coach doesn't seem to have any confidence in you. I can't say that I know how KF felt or how the players felt, but personally... I would like my coach to have faith that I can do the thing I think I'm best at and the thing I'm here to do... Play football and win games.

Maybe I'm reading into it too much. It is just my opinion.
 
No.
No.
No.
When you think you know everything and you experienced it all before and close your mind to change you have opened the first door to being a loser.
When you don't have unpredictability on your side you give the opposition a foothold and your team a disadvantage.
 
Yeah, the day had shown us we probably weren't going 70 yards in a minute. I would have opened with a throw to McNutt though to see if it was possible. 4th and 1 though I would have went. A QB sneak alone can get you that.

Only needed 40-50.

Terrible decision to sit on it and give the ball back to a team you haven't been able to stop all day.

Just plain pathetic.
 
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