tOSU 2011 Record 8-4?

[WinOneThisCentury]

Me thinks with the all the trouble at tOSU, people are forgetting what a football factory they really are. I know Pryor is gone, but if I'm not mistaken, they recruit pretty well and they will have a 4 star or 5 star player waiting in the wings or a couple of them. I get the coaching change and the loss of The Vest's calm and cool on the sidelines, but the game plans won't change much and they will still have an abundance of talent.

The first five games, other than Miami are a walk and Miami hasn't exactly lit it up over the last few years against top competition.

There is no doubt they will be very, very solid in the trenches on both sides of the ball...and I especially think their defense will be very good.

Last point, the chip on their shoulder will be enormous and if it's channeled correctly, I believe they are going to be out to prove something. This is a very proud program, and they have gotten their noses rubbed in a lot of crap...which I enjoyed very much. However, come Saturday, they will be physical and deep.

I don't think they lose to Miami or Michigan. I honestly hope they beat the crap out of Miami.

 

[JonDMiller]

I felt all last year that without Pryor they were a 7 or 8 win team. I think they are an 8-4 team this year.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

I felt all last year that without Pryor they were a 7 or 8 win team. I think they are an 8-4 team this year.

Who were they going to lose to last year? They had two really close games...Iowa and Wisconsin...they beat everyone else pretty good except Arkansas.

Mind you, I don't like tOSU and the fact that Iowa has had a tough go with them, especially with the breaks always seeming to go to them, but they haven't lost 4 games in a season in what...7-8 years...I'd have to look it up. Their talent pool is at least even with the top teams in the SEC. I just don't see 4 losses on the schedule. I think they will play more close games without Pryor, but I still think they could be 10-2. This may be a first for me...making a point about how good Ohio State has been.

Saying they were an 8 win team without Pryor is like saying we were a 5 win team without Stanzi...We don't lose 8 games last year without Stanzi and I don't think you can even make an argument to the contrary.

 

[Raziel]

I posted this in the original thread, but I'll re-post due to relevance:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fufred
0% chance OSU loses 4 regular season games. I don't care who coaches them OSU still has the most talent in the B10. 10-2 or 9-3 I could buy, no way 8-4.

How many games last year did OSU win solely because of Terrelle Pryor? I know for sure the Iowa game counts as one. Plug Joe Bauserman (sp?) in instead of Pryor, and I'd be willing to bet the 2010 team was 9-3/8-4 - and that is WITH a lot of talent they won't have this year and perhaps the most successful coach in Big Ten history.

One thing that people seem to forget that Jim Tressel was REALLY good at: not losing games OSU was supposed to win. Talent isn't the reason JT had such a great record against the Big Ten's inferior teams -throughout the course of college football history, we've seen a number of teams with loads of talent that couldn't win games - JT was the reason OSU had that great record. You can minimize the loss of JT all you want, but the reality is, his record against he Big Ten's marginal teams could be his most impressive legacy at OSU. I'll guarantee you that OSU loses at least one game they are favored big in this year - and that is a game that JT would have won.

Lastly, the 2011 OSU team chemistry is going to be seriously tested this year - with all the negativity surrounding the program, the suspended starters for five games, & the loss of a head coach (and a punishment yet to be named from the NCAA for the Tresselgate saga), I'd expect enough turmoil in the OSU locker room alone to account for at least 3 losses. Also, in the past, a lot of teams looked at OSU as kind of an unbeatable team due to their extreme dominance of the league - it was kind of a self fulfilling prophecy that you'd lose to OSU. I don't foresee that happening anymore - all dynasty's have down periods...OSU is about to hit one - at least relative to the success they've had since 2002.

Also, you could buy 9-3 but there is a 0% chance at 8-4? That seems like a suspect assertion, mathematically speaking.

___________________________________________________________

And more directly to your point about "they beat everybody else pretty badly except Arkansas" - take away all the points Pryor scored directly via rush/pass, keeping a drive going by getting a first down with his legs, or simply by being the offenses leader, then subtract them from the points OSU actually scored - I'd willing to bet you'd be shocked to see how quickly a 30 point win may turn into a 3 point win.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

[
And more directly to your point about "they beat everybody else pretty badly except Arkansas" - take away all the points Pryor scored directly via rush/pass, keeping a drive going by getting a first down with his legs, or simply by being the offenses leader, then subtract them from the points OSU actually scored - I'd willing to bet you'd be shocked to see how quickly a 30 point win may turn into a 3 point win.[/QUOTE]

So as long as no else on the Ohio State team makes a good play in similar circumstances, your assertion is correct above. Who do you think they are replacing Pryor with, Jake Christensen? I don't think so. They have good players who will step in and make plays. They just have to be given the chance. I agree, the totals are closer, but other guys step up.

I have to stop this thread...talking about tOSU is making me sick.

 

[tm3308]

Ohio State probably loses the Miami game last year without those 5 players. In that game, Pryor (obviously) was OSU's leading passer, and went 12-27 for 233 yards and a TD. Posey was the leading receiver with 4 grabs for 105 yards and a TD. Pryor and Herron combined for 34 carries to the tune of 179 yards and 2 TD's.

That's an awful lot of firepower to be lacking the second time around, on the road to boot.

 

[fufred]

As long as Braxton Miller starts at QB OSU should win at least 9 games. If Bauserman starts then all bets are off because he isn't very good. OSU's running game will be ridiculous this year. They should pound teams out until B. Miller is more comfortable. I'll say 10-2 this year.

 

[JonDMiller]

Pryor's impact on moving the chains with his legs was enormous. The resources that some teams had to commit to attempt to keep him in check will not show up in the box score, but certainly showed up in the final score. Pryor also led the league in TD passes with 27. He was 4th in the league in total offense..the three players ahead of him; Denard Robinson, Dan Persa and Ben Chappell meant everything to their teams too and NW/Michigan would have been -3 or -4 in the win department without them.

It will be interesting to see what type of offense OSU chooses to employ this year. Under Tressell, they have played a similar brand of low risk football like we have seen from Iowa, due to the strength of their defense year to year (same for Iowa).

Without Pryor they will probably have to tweak some things. Bauserman is more of a pocket presence QB. Braxton Miller is a great prospect, but will be a true frosh. Kenny Guiton is a dual threat QB...but in any instance, my guess is they are looking at at least a 25% drop off in offensive production.

8-4/9-3 seems most likely to me.

People act like 8-4 for OSU is impossible..they went 8-4 in 2004..so it can happen

 

[JonDMiller]

As long as Braxton Miller starts at QB OSU should win at least 9 games. If Bauserman starts then all bets are off because he isn't very good. OSU's running game will be ridiculous this year. They should pound teams out until B. Miller is more comfortable. I'll say 10-2 this year.

Well, if they start a true freshman at QB, the running game had better be ridiculous.

 

[fufred]

Well, if they start a true freshman at QB, the running game had better be ridiculous.

Pryor started most of his freshman year, Braxton is an early enrollee so he isn't a typical true freshman. Miller is a better passer than Pryor and is a much shiftier runner, he isn't as fast straight line nor can he stiff arm guys like Pryor but he is plenty elusive. He is much like Troy Smith was. Im more concerned about the WR's than the QB position.

 

[JonDMiller]

Pryor started most of his freshman year, Braxton is an early enrollee so he isn't a typical true freshman. Miller is a better passer than Pryor and is a much shiftier runner, he isn't as fast straight line nor can he stiff arm guys like Pryor but he is plenty elusive. He is much like Troy Smith was. Im more concerned about the WR's than the QB position.

Pryor is a once in a decade or so talent...his speed at his size and power, there is not another player with his overall skill set in the nation right now, and probably wont be for while.

Miller could well be a better passer, and has better throwing mechanics...but he wont throw for 27 touchdowns next year with just 10 or 11 INT's. No way.

 

[olddude]

Pryor's impact on moving the chains with his legs was enormous. The resources that some teams had to commit to attempt to keep him in check will not show up in the box score, but certainly showed up in the final score. Pryor also led the league in TD passes with 27. He was 4th in the league in total offense..the three players ahead of him; Denard Robinson, Dan Persa and Ben Chappell meant everything to their teams too and NW/Michigan would have been -3 or -4 in the win department without them.

It will be interesting to see what type of offense OSU chooses to employ this year. Under Tressell, they have played a similar brand of low risk football like we have seen from Iowa, due to the strength of their defense year to year (same for Iowa).

Without Pryor they will probably have to tweak some things. Bauserman is more of a pocket presence QB. Braxton Miller is a great prospect, but will be a true frosh. Kenny Guiton is a dual threat QB...but in any instance, my guess is they are looking at at least a 25% drop off in offensive production.

8-4/9-3 seems most likely to me.

People act like 8-4 for OSU is impossible..they went 8-4 in 2004..so it can happen

Good post Jon. I think you got it pretty much square on. 8-4,9-3 seems about right. I think the scale tends to lean more toward the 8-4 thou. They had better go into conf play undefeated, they are going to need that momentum or it could get real ugly, real fast. Mich St should be pretty good this year, then they go to Nebby, and I already thought Nebby would beat them this year. Ill sounds like they might try running the ball this year and wont be a gimme game (@ Ill). Then they get to face Wiskey. A little breather (Penn is in there thou) and finish it up with Mich.
Like I said if they dont start strong, it could be real bad, but even with a good effort, they will have a hard time getting 9 wins.

 

[fufred]

Pryor is a once in a decade or so talent...his speed at his size and power, there is not another player with his overall skill set in the nation right now, and probably wont be for while.

Miller could well be a better passer, and has better throwing mechanics...but he wont throw for 27 touchdowns next year with just 10 or 11 INT's. No way.

Listen I love Pryor but once in a decade talent? Heard of Cam Newton? Lol....c'mon Jon you're better than this. Besides all I have heard on this board is Pryor sucks...

 

[JonDMiller]

Listen I love Pryor but once in a decade talent? Heard of Cam Newton? Lol....c'mon Jon you're better than this. Besides all I have heard on this board is Pryor sucks...

From a pro potential as a QB, yeah, he sucked. But from what you can do on the college level, given his power and speed combo and an ability to get the ball to receivers (even if it was ugly) I'd have to go back to Randal-El to recall another B10 QB that could do all that Pryor could do.

Sure, Robinson had a nice season last year, but the guy was knocked out of games like 10 times and he was not the threat through the air that Pryor was.

Sure, Newton is a better QB than Pryor. I still will call them once in a decade talents, because you just don't see players with their skill sets combos very often...If you want to get legalistic about that statement, sure, you 'll win one the 'once' and 'decade' because Vince young was in the last 10 years too.

But you know and I know you are splitting hairs here, and if you really believe Ohio State is gonna just be rolling on down the highway with a true freshman QB who isn't in Pryor's class from a physical standpoint, then let's set up some sort of wager for charity.

Braxton could be just as fast as Pryor. He could have better throwing mechanics...but he is not going to be able to stay on his feet and use the stiff arm the way Pryor did. He isn't as long, he doesn't have the same leverage, he isn't as strong and while he has a similar game, he isn't near Pryor's level.

 

[JonDMiller]

what's more, comparing both player's senior high school high light reels, I would say Rob Bolden of Penn State was the superior pure passer, and with some daylight. I give Miller the edge with the legs, and he is a stronger player at the same edge.

But in the pocket, and on the move, I think Bolden looked better. Bolden was a true freshman starter last year, and was benched at midseason. however, Braxton would certainly have the talent around him edge, specifically on the OL. I am not saying the kid can't be successful next year, but he is not going to be Terrelle Pryor from 2010, and I think OSU has a big drop off at this position from a productivity standpoint, and defenses will not have to allocate the resources to the OSU QB this year like they did last year. That is an edge for the opponent.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Pryor's impact on moving the chains with his legs was enormous. The resources that some teams had to commit to attempt to keep him in check will not show up in the box score, but certainly showed up in the final score. Pryor also led the league in TD passes with 27. He was 4th in the league in total offense..the three players ahead of him; Denard Robinson, Dan Persa and Ben Chappell meant everything to their teams too and NW/Michigan would have been -3 or -4 in the win department without them.

It will be interesting to see what type of offense OSU chooses to employ this year. Under Tressell, they have played a similar brand of low risk football like we have seen from Iowa, due to the strength of their defense year to year (same for Iowa).

Without Pryor they will probably have to tweak some things. Bauserman is more of a pocket presence QB. Braxton Miller is a great prospect, but will be a true frosh. Kenny Guiton is a dual threat QB...but in any instance, my guess is they are looking at at least a 25% drop off in offensive production.

8-4/9-3 seems most likely to me.

People act like 8-4 for OSU is impossible..they went 8-4 in 2004..so it can happen

Nice...so I was right...7 years ago they lost four games. You are right, it's not impossible that they could lose four...and for Christ's sake I hope they do.

However, I'm not convinced they are going to have an 8-4 Season with that schedule. By all accounts I see them running a low risk, smash mouth style of football that relies on it's defense to stop teams and get turnovers and field position for the offense. You still have to line up and play these guys and score points on them. If I'm not mistaken they have a good nucleus back on the defensive side of the ball and are pretty deep most everywhere.

Their defense was more highly rated than our I believe, especially against the run. That always seems to continue. I also wouldn't underestimate the chip on the shoulder, us against the world stuff.

 

[JonDMiller]

I also wouldn't underestimate the chip on the shoulder, us against the world stuff.

I can see that...but I wont underestimate the constant questions about improprieties and the NCAA cloud looming overhead all year either...and if they get a bowl ban before the year starts, that will play into it.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Listen I love Pryor but once in a decade talent? Heard of Cam Newton? Lol....c'mon Jon you're better than this. Besides all I have heard on this board is Pryor sucks...

Newton played for Auburn. Surely you're aware of that. Both of them cheated, but Newton at least had the smarts to get out ahead of the posse and not bring the program down with him.

What Jon was saying is that Pryor was a once in a decade talent for Ohio State. Miller is probably more of the Craig Krenzel, Justin Zwick type player.

 

[tm3308]

Newton played for Auburn. Surely you're aware of that. Both of them cheated, but Newton at least had the smarts to get out ahead of the posse and not bring the program down with him.

What Jon was saying is that Pryor was a once in a decade talent for Ohio State. Miller is probably more of the Craig Krenzel, Justin Zwick type player.

From what we've seen, Bauserman (sp?) is the Krenzel/Zwick type player. Miller is likely a Troy Smith-type player, as fufred said earlier. It took Smith a while before he really put everything together, so even a talented player like Miller may not exactly light things up as a freshman.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

What Jon was saying is that Pryor was a once in a decade talent for Ohio State. Miller is probably more of the Craig Krenzel, Justin Zwick type player.

I don't think he was.

Sure, Newton is a better QB than Pryor. I still will call them once in a decade talents, because you just don't see players with their skill sets combos very often...If you want to get legalistic about that statement, sure, you 'll win one the 'once' and 'decade' because Vince young was in the last 10 years too.