Things I learned at N. Duals yesterday....

TheGreatTobini

Well-Known Member
I don't know that there is a clear cut favorite to win come March. I really thought it was going to come down to Iowa,Cornell, Oky State and maybe psu with Cornell being the early favorite. Alot of teams have ther 1 or 2 guys but not much else so to speak. NOBODY WILL BEAT OLIVER KID IS A STUD!!!!! Most impressive wrestler I saw there. A close and I mean VERY close second was Dake. I'm going to call it right now that NOBODY BEATS HIM EITHER!! I'll catch some static for this one but was not impressed with Howe at all, yeh we all not 165 is a two man show but he didn't even major yohn. Cornell will have 1 sure fire finalist(149) and another likely one at 174. Then a bunch of other pretty good shots at AA's especially 165,184 and 197. so lets say that make 5 total for them with 1 champ. Now look at oky state. 1 surefire finalist at 133 and few really good shots at AAing with 125,149,165,174,184 and 197 so lets say 7 AA's with 1 champ. Hawks have 1 surefire finalist at 125 and 1 surefire AA at 141 with other good shots at 157,165,184 and 197 so lets say 6 AA's with 1 champ. psu has a sure fire finalist at 157 and really good shots at AA's at 133,141,149,174,184 and hwt. I say 1 champ at 157 with 7 AA's. So in conclusion its going to be tough to beat Bael guys..........
I also learned not just Hawkeye and Cyclone fans are having problems with Bael and his antics! Jon Reader's family are pretty cool people. I had the opertunity to have a very civil conversation with all of them although his sister teased me a bit for not going to isu when my dad and his sister both are grads from there.
 


I don't know that there is a clear cut favorite to win come March. I really thought it was going to come down to Iowa,Cornell, Oky State and maybe psu with Cornell being the early favorite. Alot of teams have ther 1 or 2 guys but not much else so to speak. NOBODY WILL BEAT OLIVER KID IS A STUD!!!!! Most impressive wrestler I saw there. A close and I mean VERY close second was Dake. I'm going to call it right now that NOBODY BEATS HIM EITHER!! I'll catch some static for this one but was not impressed with Howe at all, yeh we all not 165 is a two man show but he didn't even major yohn. Cornell will have 1 sure fire finalist(149) and another likely one at 174. Then a bunch of other pretty good shots at AA's especially 165,184 and 197. so lets say that make 5 total for them with 1 champ. Now look at oky state. 1 surefire finalist at 133 and few really good shots at AAing with 125,149,165,174,184 and 197 so lets say 7 AA's with 1 champ. Hawks have 1 surefire finalist at 125 and 1 surefire AA at 141 with other good shots at 157,165,184 and 197 so lets say 6 AA's with 1 champ. psu has a sure fire finalist at 157 and really good shots at AA's at 133,141,149,174,184 and hwt. I say 1 champ at 157 with 7 AA's. So in conclusion its going to be tough to beat Bael guys..........
I also learned not just Hawkeye and Cyclone fans are having problems with Bael and his antics! Jon Reader's family are pretty cool people. I had the opertunity to have a very civil conversation with all of them although his sister teased me a bit for not going to isu when my dad and his sister both are grads from there.

I'm going to have to disagree with you about Cornell, I think they are the clear cut favorite to win in March. They were without Grey at 133 and Simaz at 197 this weekend. I think Dake at 149 and Lewnes at 174 will both be champs, but Grey and Simaz could both also find themselves in the finals as well and if not they will be very high AA's (probably 3rd). Two champs, two runners-up or two 3rd place finishes, and 2 AA's will be enough for them to win the title.
 


I don't know that there is a clear cut favorite to win come March. I really thought it was going to come down to Iowa,Cornell, Oky State and maybe psu with Cornell being the early favorite. Alot of teams have ther 1 or 2 guys but not much else so to speak. NOBODY WILL BEAT OLIVER KID IS A STUD!!!!! Most impressive wrestler I saw there. A close and I mean VERY close second was Dake. I'm going to call it right now that NOBODY BEATS HIM EITHER!! I'll catch some static for this one but was not impressed with Howe at all, yeh we all not 165 is a two man show but he didn't even major yohn. Cornell will have 1 sure fire finalist(149) and another likely one at 174. Then a bunch of other pretty good shots at AA's especially 165,184 and 197. so lets say that make 5 total for them with 1 champ. Now look at oky state. 1 surefire finalist at 133 and few really good shots at AAing with 125,149,165,174,184 and 197 so lets say 7 AA's with 1 champ. Hawks have 1 surefire finalist at 125 and 1 surefire AA at 141 with other good shots at 157,165,184 and 197 so lets say 6 AA's with 1 champ. psu has a sure fire finalist at 157 and really good shots at AA's at 133,141,149,174,184 and hwt. I say 1 champ at 157 with 7 AA's. So in conclusion its going to be tough to beat Bael guys..........
I also learned not just Hawkeye and Cyclone fans are having problems with Bael and his antics! Jon Reader's family are pretty cool people. I had the opertunity to have a very civil conversation with all of them although his sister teased me a bit for not going to isu when my dad and his sister both are grads from there.

I agree, PSU is going to be tough to beat. Cornell could do it though, Dake and Lewnes are the best 1-2 punch entering the tournament and they could have a load of AA behind them.

I pretty much agree on the Hawks too. Mcd is a champ, MM is an AA, then here's my list of the rest of the weights from my most likely to place to least likely to place: 157, 133, 174, 197, 165, 184, hvy, 149
 


I agree, PSU is going to be tough to beat. Cornell could do it though, Dake and Lewnes are the best 1-2 punch entering the tournament and they could have a load of AA behind them.

I pretty much agree on the Hawks too. Mcd is a champ, MM is an AA, then here's my list of the rest of the weights from my most likely to place to least likely to place: 157, 133, 174, 197, 165, 184, hvy, 149


Dang, pretty down on Gambrell huh? I'd move him up a few spots, otherwise looks about right.

Oliver is a total stud, that is clear, but i by no means thing he's a hands down winner. Tyler Graff could easily beat him. Actually, that's who i think will meet in the finals and to me, that's a toss up.
 


There is absolutely NO SUCH THING as a sure-fire national champion, Marientti and Caldwell taught me that.

Champions dont win a team the race, depth does. Sure finalists are worth more points but if you can place 6 or more guys your definately in it reguardless of whose placing where. I think bonus points throughout the tournament are alot more important than where you place. But the team race can wait The upcoming dual season is going to be rough as it is. But a good dual on friday and then on the 30th and things change quickly for the hawks.

As far as David Taylor goes, I have a rough time naming any freshman a sure finalist, especially when I think Jenkins and Hall are both better then him.

I think the chink in Olivers armor is he is almost to comfortable with the okie state style of wrestling close and backing up (like last years Dennis match). Last march it seemed every single match he wrestled was a one point decision. Which can turn against you quickly, Morningstar taught me that.
 


I'd say that Penn State and Cornell are the big favorites right now, but there's lots of wrestling left. I did notice at National Duals that Cornell wrestlers struggled a little bit more with conditioning at the end of the third period than did most of the Big Ten/Big 12 wrestlers, but the had exceptional skills and they wrestle smart.

The Hawks are at a turning point. They can take what they've learned at Midlands and improve, or they can settle into a middling performance that puts them at 3rd-4th in the Big Ten. My gut feeling is that they will challenge for the Big Ten title, but Penn State will be awfully hard to beat this year barring injuries.

The single thing I want to see most from the Hawks is to see them battle at EVERY weight for 7 full minutes regardless of opponent, the score, their previous losses, or the opponent's national ranking. This means battling to get bonus points, to prevent opponents' bonus points, to win consolation matches, and to develop the third-period urgency and desire like we've come to expect from Hawkeye wrestlers. I know that McD gets it, but I don't know yet if the others do.
 


There is absolutely NO SUCH THING as a sure-fire national champion, Marientti and Caldwell taught me that.

Champions dont win a team the race, depth does. Sure finalists are worth more points but if you can place 6 or more guys your definately in it reguardless of whose placing where. I think bonus points throughout the tournament are alot more important than where you place. But the team race can wait The upcoming dual season is going to be rough as it is. But a good dual on friday and then on the 30th and things change quickly for the hawks.

As far as David Taylor goes, I have a rough time naming any freshman a sure finalist, especially when I think Jenkins and Hall are both better then him.

I think the chink in Olivers armor is he is almost to comfortable with the okie state style of wrestling close and backing up (like last years Dennis match). Last march it seemed every single match he wrestled was a one point decision. Which can turn against you quickly, Morningstar taught me that.

Agree...No sure fire champs. Not even McD like most think. We won in St. Louis in 2009 with a 2nd, 3rd, and 3 other lower AA. 96 points or so. I think this year is Cornell's only chance to win as they lose too many Sr. next year.

I personally think that it will be a close team race with whoever has 1-2 finalists or High AA and several more AA like we did in 2009. Don't see anyone running away with it like we did last year unless Cornell gets some good seeds and gets rolling . Won't take many "upsets" to some of the favorites AA potentials to derail a team.

PSU looks strong right now, but it's a long ways to March for them. Lots could happen and they haven't been battle tested in a tournament like that. Cornell is more dangerous I think.

Oliver is nothing like he was last year. He's improved immensly. No 1 point victories. Mostly pins and tech falls. Graff may be able to stop Oliver. No one else has yet.

You've got good thoughts and ideas Tobini, but I think you've got "AA Fever." I would be suprised to see anyone with 6 or more AA and 5 may be a stretch. Seems like a lot more parity out there this year and OSU, PSU, and Iowa are relatively young and untested. Lot of teams like Boise, American, Central Mich, etc. may have one or more guys that could knock off anyones "projected" AA. Could be a real mixed up dogfight come March.
 


I do think that Cornell is still the team to beat this year. While I don't think that Grey is anywhere near a finalist he will win some matches and maybe AA which is a big boost and I would expect Simaz to be a high AA. I would be very surprised if Lewnes and Dake aren't at least top 3 guys and I think that they have at least 5 AA's. With Dake, Kerber, Lewnes, Bosak, and Simaz. They should also get something out of Perelli, Grey, and Meagher. That is going to be tough to beat.

I think that Penn State is a very good team but I'm not sold on them winning it come March. OSU didn't look very good this weekend outside of Oliver and Foster. The young guys looked really sucked down and not real sharp and Parks did not look good at all.

I also give Graff about a 5% chance of beating Oliver right now. Graff is a good wrestler and will be an AA but that is not a good matchup for him. I strongly believe that Oliver will win the title this year but I think that the guy with the best chance of knocking him off would be Hochstrasser.
 


I do think that Cornell is still the team to beat this year. While I don't think that Grey is anywhere near a finalist he will win some matches and maybe AA which is a big boost and I would expect Simaz to be a high AA. I would be very surprised if Lewnes and Dake aren't at least top 3 guys and I think that they have at least 5 AA's. With Dake, Kerber, Lewnes, Bosak, and Simaz. They should also get something out of Perelli, Grey, and Meagher. That is going to be tough to beat.

I think that Penn State is a very good team but I'm not sold on them winning it come March. OSU didn't look very good this weekend outside of Oliver and Foster. The young guys looked really sucked down and not real sharp and Parks did not look good at all.

I also give Graff about a 5% chance of beating Oliver right now. Graff is a good wrestler and will be an AA but that is not a good matchup for him. I strongly believe that Oliver will win the title this year but I think that the guy with the best chance of knocking him off would be Hochstrasser.

5%??? that's not very much. I mean they were both at nationals last year. Oliver got 4th and Graff got 5th. Both guys lost to Ness and Gomez and you only give him a 1 out of 20 shot to beat Oliver?
I realize Oliver has been a wrecking ball this year but he's wrestled 10 matches and only one of them have been against a guy ranked in the 20 and that was against true freshman Devin Carter.

Trust me, i like Oliver as much as the next guy (ok maybe not tobini), but can we please wait until he wins a title before he's anointed as the second coming.
 


I never said he was the second coming but I have no doubts that Oliver beats Graff. If you don't like my 5% then lets make it 4%... :)

Graff is probably a top 4 guy but I just think that's a BAD matchup for Graff.
 


5%??? that's not very much. I mean they were both at nationals last year. Oliver got 4th and Graff got 5th. Both guys lost to Ness and Gomez and you only give him a 1 out of 20 shot to beat Oliver?
I realize Oliver has been a wrecking ball this year but he's wrestled 10 matches and only one of them have been against a guy ranked in the 20 and that was against true freshman Devin Carter.

Trust me, i like Oliver as much as the next guy (ok maybe not tobini), but can we please wait until he wins a title before he's anointed as the second coming.

Thought Oliver beat Hochstrasser out at Las Vegas or somewhere. Gotta believe he has more than 10 matches in so far this year. He got how many in just at Nat. Duals?
 






The Hochstrasser match "doesn't count" because it was the All-Star meet.

He still beat him, whether it "counts" or not. He may not have wrestled other top guys ouside of Hoch, but he has sure looked very dominant and much improved from last year. I didn't expect him to look this good till next year.

Excellent site CR. Thanks.
 


The All Star classic doesn't count because it is meaningless. Some guys dont gear up for it, others show up late and are tired, theres thousands of reasons why the results are unreliable. They are not indicative of March results.

It would be like the same two guys at the all star classic wrestling and one guy beating the other 19-3 in 6:20. Then the same two guys meeting in national finals and the guy who got teched ends up winning 11-6. Ya know?
 


The All Star classic doesn't count because it is meaningless. Some guys dont gear up for it, others show up late and are tired, theres thousands of reasons why the results are unreliable. They are not indicative of March results.

It would be like the same two guys at the all star classic wrestling and one guy beating the other 19-3 in 6:20. Then the same two guys meeting in national finals and the guy who got teched ends up winning 11-6. Ya know?

Talk about not getting enough sleep and being all grouchy! :)
 




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