Something positive to build on....

U

urohawk

Well-Known Member
Iowa hung in with a top ten team on the road with Freshman and Sophmores playing 166 out of 200 minutes. Freshman played 91 minutes. Plus I thought MSU played pretty well, maybe not there best but they were hitting some tough shots.

I know the players or Lick won't admit it but there are moral victories and I definitely think this is something to build on (even more than the Penn State win).

Now if the players continue to progress, next year could be very fun to watch for Iowa basketball. I am really anxious to see if Fuller can continue to improve. There were certain times when I thought he could take his man but instead elected to pass out. His game could be very good.

We just can't have one of the starting five transfer.
 
McHawkin said:
Really? This was a game where even Lickliter said that MSU "letup" on Iowa, and we still couldn't win the game. Izzo and even members of the MSU team admitted that they played like crap, and they still beat Iowa by seven. The close loss at MSU is to be more attributed to MSU than it is to Iowa.

No. 6 Michigan State holds off Iowa 70-63 - College Basketball - Rivals.com
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I agree that they didn't play there best and probably let off a little. Having said that they had guys knocking down some tough shots. I disagree that this had nothing to do with Iowa. When you have 5 different players step up and make contested three point shots and continue to play hard you are going to make a run. Iowa caught fire and played with poise down the stretch.
 
urohawk said:
I agree that they didn't play there best and probably let off a little. Having said that they had guys knocking down some tough shots. I disagree that this had nothing to do with Iowa. When you have 5 different players step up and make contested three point shots and continue to play hard you are going to make a run. Iowa caught fire and played with poise down the stretch.
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Still lost the game though, so all that poise and fire don't mean jack.
 
McHawkin said:
Still lost the game though, so all that poise and fire don't mean jack.
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By that logic, it would be the same to you as if the team had looked dead in the water and lost by 40.

At the end of the day, it was still a loss, but I can't say it's meaningless to go on the road and play last year's national runner-up team down to the wire when they beat you by 18 on your home floor less than two weeks ago.

This game won't mean much if the team comes out and lays an egg in it's next few games and reverts back to the way they looked a few weeks ago, but when it comes to finding something positive to build on, you've got to start somewhere, and last night's game is as good a place to start as we've had all year.
 
McHawkin said:
Still lost the game though, so all that poise and fire don't mean jack.
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Spoken like a true John Krease, Kobra Kia Dojo disciple. Second place is no place...you are off the team.

If you don't see anything to build on the last two games then you don't want to see it.

I do agree with 1977, if they don't continue to play well and improve and get a few more wins in the Big Ten then it is meaningless.
 
It was a positive step...

urohawk said:
Iowa hung in with a top ten team on the road with Freshman and Sophmores playing 166 out of 200 minutes. Freshman played 91 minutes. Plus I thought MSU played pretty well, maybe not there best but they were hitting some tough shots.

I know the players or Lick won't admit it but there are moral victories and I definitely think this is something to build on (even more than the Penn State win).

Now if the players continue to progress, next year could be very fun to watch for Iowa basketball. I am really anxious to see if Fuller can continue to improve. There were certain times when I thought he could take his man but instead elected to pass out. His game could be very good.

We just can't have one of the starting five transfer.
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and at this point in the season and with this team the focus has to be on how Iowa plays vs. getting to X amount of wins. It marks 3 games in a row (PSU, Tenn. State and MSU) where Iowa has given a consistent effort, or at least about as consistent as this team is capable of.
I am interested to see how Iowa plays at Indiana Sunday. Hoosiers are not a team that will take Iowa lightly (as did MSU) but Indiana will view this as one of the games they really have to win this year and will likely prepare as such. Hawks knew going into MSU that if they didn't give maximum effort and stay in it the entire game, the score would get way out of hand. They need to bring the same urgency to Bloomington.
 
Re: It was a positive step...

DodgerHawki said:
and at this point in the season and with this team the focus has to be on how Iowa plays vs. getting to X amount of wins. It marks 3 games in a row (PSU, Tenn. State and MSU) where Iowa has given a consistent effort, or at least about as consistent as this team is capable of.
I am interested to see how Iowa plays at Indiana Sunday. Hoosiers are not a team that will take Iowa lightly (as did MSU) but Indiana will view this as one of the games they really have to win this year and will likely prepare as such. Hawks knew going into MSU that if they didn't give maximum effort and stay in it the entire game, the score would get way out of hand. They need to bring the same urgency to Bloomington.
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What I'm wanting to see from this team the rest of the way is signs of life and continue to make progress (and steal a few wins). At the moment, it seems like we are starting to see that. The W/L record isn't going to look good this year, and I think we all agree that isn't exactly ideal, but if the team is improving and being competetive, I can stay patient for another year. Next year is the year I'll be wanting to see quite a few more W's.

That said, I agree that I think it's important to follow up last night's game with another good effort in Bloomington, and hopefully get the W this time, rather than take a step or two backwards. If you remember, the team looked so good against ISU last year, and bombed bigtime against Drake in the very next game. I'd like to avoid that.
 
urohawk said:
Spoken like a true John Krease, Kobra Kia Dojo disciple. Second place is no place...you are off the team.
Yes, Miagi...except for the "you are off the team" part. You play to win the game.

I think it is reasonable to question whether it was Iowa playing really well or was it MSU playing really poorly. Afterall, this is the same MSU team that came into Iowa's house and punked them by 18 points a couple weeks ago. Where was the effort for the home crowd that day?
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McHawkin said:
I think it is reasonable to question whether it was Iowa playing really well or was it MSU playing really poorly. Afterall, this is the same MSU team that came into Iowa's house and punked them by 18 points a couple weeks ago. Where was the effort for the home crowd that day?
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I think it is a little of both, actually. MSU beat us by 18 in Carver a couple weeks ago, but it was a 1 possession game with under a minute to go in Breslin last night. I find it hard to believe you see that kind of difference without Iowa playing a much better game than they did the first time around.

Time will tell if this was a fluke, or if Iowa is starting to play better.
 
HawkeyeTech said:
McHawkin, why do you even bother to post? Take your negativity and put it where the sun don't shine.
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There is always another side of the page Tech. If you wann blow sunshine all day long and live in some fantasyland that is fine, but I'm posing a valid arguement.

Bottomline, win or go home. I'm sick and tired after three seasons of waiting to see a winning season. I'm sick and tired of not seeing post season play. Winning is Lickliter job. It is what he gets paid over a million dollars a year to do, and he just isn't doing his job IMO.

I don't see what his excuse is after three seasons. I mean, Bruce Pearl beat # 1 Kansas the other night with 6 scholarship players. What's Lick's excuse?
 
But you KNOW they aren't going to win this year, so why keep repeating the same refrain? Lick will be back next year whether we like it or not, so I try to take solace in small victories like coming close to MSU and playing well for stretches. I'm not a Lickliter fan (at present), but if they improve the rest of this year I will keep cheering for them.

And I saw a few things from the team last night that I hadn't seen before, like Gatens' agressiveness and Cully's play (at least when he wasn't throwing the ball in the stands) that give me a glimmer of hope for the future.
 
Everybody agrees that in years 2 and 3 things haven't progressed. In large part due to transfers and poor recruiting. We all get that. The question is can things get better under Lickliter or not? In the last few games some of us have seen evidence that it might. If they tank the rest of the way then I will be less optimistic but I don't think they will. He doesn't and shouldn't get a free pass for this year but I would rather look ahead to the future then continue to dwell on the negative. If the team doesn't improve and players leave after this year than I think we part ways.
 
urohawk said:
Everybody agrees that in years 2 and 3 things haven't progressed. In large part due to transfers and poor recruiting. We all get that. The question is can things get better under Lickliter or not? In the last few games some of us have seen evidence that it might. If they tank the rest of the way then I will be less optimistic but I don't think they will. He doesn't and shouldn't get a free pass for this year but I would rather look ahead to the future then continue to dwell on the negative. If the team doesn't improve and players leave after this year than I think we part ways.
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This is pretty much my thought. I am encouraged by what we saw last night, and in parts of the PSU game, but that's too small of a sample to judge a coach's tenure on, or even a season. If the team can play pretty well the next few games and maybe steal a couple wins (not sure who we play after Indiana), then I think we have to say that we're making some progress and the team has improved since earlier in the year. But if we start getting our tails handed to us again, well, let's not go there because we know what the general sentiment will be on these boards.

I do think things can get better under Lickliter. The question is - how much better? Good enough to start finishing in the upper half of the conference? That remains to be seen. I do believe though, that if we can't put together a winning record next year, even if it's just 16-15, then I don't think it's going to happen. Of course, more transfers after this season would be catastrophic.

First, it'll be interesting to see how we look on Sunday following last night's game.
 
urohawk said:
Everybody agrees that in years 2 and 3 things haven't progressed. In large part due to transfers and poor recruiting. We all get that. The question is can things get better under Lickliter or not? In the last few games some of us have seen evidence that it might. If they tank the rest of the way then I will be less optimistic but I don't think they will. He doesn't and shouldn't get a free pass for this year but I would rather look ahead to the future then continue to dwell on the negative. If the team doesn't improve and players leave after this year than I think we part ways.
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What the heck are you talking about? Iowa beat a crappy TN State and barely beat the worst team in the Big Ten, and then lost to MSU who was having a bad night.

What you smokin' Willis?!
 
McHawkin said:
What the heck are you talking about? Iowa beat a crappy TN State and barely beat the worst team in the Big Ten, and then lost to MSU who was having a bad night.

What you smokin' Willis?!
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I know it is pointless but what the heck. I actually watch the games and break down the players performance rather than just complain about everything.

1. The emergence of Fuller. My number one problem with the system is that Lick has played a slow down style without any inside presence. With Fuller playing well the last several games it gives me hope that part of this problem will be fixed. Fuller is far from being an elite player but if he continues to progress I think next year he can be very good. I love how he hits the offensive glass and can finish with both hands.

2. Payne has shown guts. In spurts he has played very bad but in each of the last three games he has made plays down the stretch. TSU hit a big 3, PSU hit two clutch FTs after missing 3 in a row and MSU made several nice plays after coming back in. Now he needs to be more consistent but for freshman to be mentally tough was promising. I love his shot too.

3. Gatens showed an improved ability to score and not just hit 3s despite being hobbled with a bad ankle. When Matt presses he turns the ball over but I have been impressed with the 15 foot jumpshot he has added to his game from last year.

4. May struggles with TOs and inconsistent shooting but with a year these things will improve. You can't teach his ability to rebound, block shots and play hard. I absolutely love his upside.

5. Cole I felt has played very good defense. His hands are not good (and probably will not improve) but each of the last two game he has made a jumpshot and has been less turnover prone.

6. I thought our transition defense was better than it has been the last several games.

Those are signs that I see that there maybe a light at the end of the tunnel.
 
urohawk said:
I know it is pointless but what the heck. I actually watch the games and break down the players performance rather than just complain about everything.


It's funny on this board, people who generally try to take emotion out of analysis get jumpped from both sides.

Either you are not negative enough or you are too negative.

All of your posts are very good. You dont' get emotional, and try to stick to facts. You can tell that you watch the game intelligentally, and do not let any agenda get in your way
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