Schwartz: The Trouble With Big Ten Football
- Thread starter RobHowe
- Start date
I'm kicking myself for clicking on one of his opinions again. blah, blah, blah....selective use of records in a given year.
Hypothetically, Iowa and Wisconsin traded out with anyone other than OSU in the east and the article would read the same.
HawkeyeDenis
Well-Known Member
It's sad but the Big Ten West is the Big Ten's version of the B12 North division before Nebraska left.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
All I can say to that article...We (the West) have Scott Frost and that evens everything out and makes us slightly better than the East in my opinion. If you don't believe me, spend a few minutes on Nebraska's board.
Scott is carrying around 1997 National Champion pixie dust in his pocket...he's waiting for the right moment (the week they play at Ohio State) to sprinkle it on his players.
Scott is carrying around 1997 National Champion pixie dust in his pocket...he's waiting for the right moment (the week they play at Ohio State) to sprinkle it on his players.
They can't go reshuffling the divisions every 3 yrs based on competitiveness... It is what it is. I'm sure most of the schools in the east don't like how everyone is playing for 3rd or 4th pretty much. 1st and 2nd are pretty much a given with the rest having no shot at winning it. So it is what it is on both sides work with what you have and try and be as good as you can be. Iowa is in a great position to make hay. Just wish we'd take advantage of it
guffus
Well-Known Member
Entering 2018, Here is a look at each school’s regular season cross-division mark since the East-West split in 2014:
West
Wisconsin: 8-2
Iowa: 6-4
Nebraska: 6-4
Northwestern: 6-4
Minnesota: 3-7
Illinois: 3-7
Purdue: 1-9
OVERALL 33-37
EAST
Ohio State: 9-1
Michigan: 7-3
Penn State: 7-3
Michigan State: 6-4
Indiana: 4-6
Maryland: 4-6
Rutgers: 2-8
OVERALL 37-33
So overall that actually is pretty close. But when you look at CCG it's a little more lopsided
West
Wisconsin: 0-3
Iowa: 0-1
Overall 0-4
EAST
Ohio State: 2-0
Penn State: 1-0
Michigan State: 1-0
Overall 4-0
I believe the West is suffering from a perception problem because it has not won any CCG yet. Until they start winning some CCG, the east is going to be perceived as better regardless of what the overall records are.
Also it should be noted that 2017 was a good year for the east. All of the Big 4 schools had good teams in 2017, but that is actually rare for all 4 teams to be so good in 1 year. 2016 is great example of a more typical year where MSU was down that year. In earlier years Mich and PSU were down. The only school that does not go through down cycles seems to be OSU.
It is still early in 2018, but the West clearly is off to a terrible start. We will know more after Wisc plays Mich and PSU and Iowa plays PSU and MD. Nebraska is hopeless and a big part of the problem in the west being down in 2017 & 2018.
One final note. How in the world is Iowa 2-0 against OSU and Mich and only 4-4 against the rest of east since the east-west split?
West
Wisconsin: 8-2
Iowa: 6-4
Nebraska: 6-4
Northwestern: 6-4
Minnesota: 3-7
Illinois: 3-7
Purdue: 1-9
OVERALL 33-37
EAST
Ohio State: 9-1
Michigan: 7-3
Penn State: 7-3
Michigan State: 6-4
Indiana: 4-6
Maryland: 4-6
Rutgers: 2-8
OVERALL 37-33
So overall that actually is pretty close. But when you look at CCG it's a little more lopsided
West
Wisconsin: 0-3
Iowa: 0-1
Overall 0-4
EAST
Ohio State: 2-0
Penn State: 1-0
Michigan State: 1-0
Overall 4-0
I believe the West is suffering from a perception problem because it has not won any CCG yet. Until they start winning some CCG, the east is going to be perceived as better regardless of what the overall records are.
Also it should be noted that 2017 was a good year for the east. All of the Big 4 schools had good teams in 2017, but that is actually rare for all 4 teams to be so good in 1 year. 2016 is great example of a more typical year where MSU was down that year. In earlier years Mich and PSU were down. The only school that does not go through down cycles seems to be OSU.
It is still early in 2018, but the West clearly is off to a terrible start. We will know more after Wisc plays Mich and PSU and Iowa plays PSU and MD. Nebraska is hopeless and a big part of the problem in the west being down in 2017 & 2018.
One final note. How in the world is Iowa 2-0 against OSU and Mich and only 4-4 against the rest of east since the east-west split?
D
DDThompson
Guest
The Big10 put 4 of its 5 top five programs in one division and hoped the West would be a strong cluster a Middle Kingdom teams.
This is exactly what the Big10 wanted.... to have one of the programs from the populated states to win Big10 championships.
If they wanted a competitive conference then they could have divide it up accordingly. They didn’t.
Geography doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant for division alignments. They have these new inventions where people can be transported by the hundreds in large machines that fly very fast in the sky.
This is exactly what the Big10 wanted.... to have one of the programs from the populated states to win Big10 championships.
If they wanted a competitive conference then they could have divide it up accordingly. They didn’t.
Geography doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant for division alignments. They have these new inventions where people can be transported by the hundreds in large machines that fly very fast in the sky.
D
DDThompson
Guest
All crossover games should be played at Kinnick under the lights.
ChosenChildren
Well-Known Member
The beautiful thing about this stuff is that it will all get played out on the field. Wisconsin plays Michigan and Penn State this year. Iowa plays at Penn State. You will know a lot more about how the divisions compare after those games are played.
Wisconsin should have beaten Penn State in 2016 and played a very close game against Ohio State in 2017. Iowa was ONE PLAY away from defeating MSU in the 2015 CCG. I think the author of this piece is overstating his case.
Wisconsin should have beaten Penn State in 2016 and played a very close game against Ohio State in 2017. Iowa was ONE PLAY away from defeating MSU in the 2015 CCG. I think the author of this piece is overstating his case.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Purdue to the East and MSU west would do it. You could go north and south. Not a bad article at all.
There are only 2 solid programs in the west and they both are not OSU, PSU, or M realistically. NW is unpredictable. The bottom 4 of each are about equal.
Nebby has let down the west, but then again so has Maryland in the east..
North: MN, WI, ,NW, P Mich, PSU, Rut
South: OSU, IA, Neb, IL, Mary, IU, ,MSU
MSU and PSU could be swapped for geographic purists.
There are only 2 solid programs in the west and they both are not OSU, PSU, or M realistically. NW is unpredictable. The bottom 4 of each are about equal.
Nebby has let down the west, but then again so has Maryland in the east..
North: MN, WI, ,NW, P Mich, PSU, Rut
South: OSU, IA, Neb, IL, Mary, IU, ,MSU
MSU and PSU could be swapped for geographic purists.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Good stuff. Thanks for the post.
Fryowa
Administrator
Sorry to interject, but this is what the B1G should look like.
Geography doesn't mean shit, and who cares what you name the divisions.
Division "A"
Iowa
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Notre Dame
Purdue
Wisconsin
Division "B"
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
Northwestern
Ohio State
Penn State
Pitt
Geography doesn't mean shit, and who cares what you name the divisions.
Division "A"
Iowa
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Notre Dame
Purdue
Wisconsin
Division "B"
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
Northwestern
Ohio State
Penn State
Pitt
Nice. The lack of Rutgers and MD almost saddens me... JK This would be much preferred. I wonder if MSU and Michigan would like to be I the same division or not. Beyond that it's close enough for my liking.
MoseSchrute
Well-Known Member
You forgot Nebraska. Get rid of Nebraska.
MoseSchrute
Well-Known Member
That does look much better, except Notre Dame needs to be shunned by everyone.
I'm actually a proponent of a single set of standings where you lock in 3-4 rivals and rotate around the rest of the league I think all of the leagues could benefit from that.
But since they are going to have divisions the problem is all of the recruiting areas are in the east. Wisconsin has done a great job but that's what really hurts programs like Nebraska and to a lesser extent compete for titles.
If the B1G wants to help give the necessary ingredients to restore the Nebraska brand and help Iowa and even Wisconsin actually compete, there needs to be some equity recruiting wise. I would divide the divisions like this:
A: OSU, Mich., MSU, Northwestern, Ind., Purdue,MN.
B: PSU, Neb., Wisconsin, Ia., Illinois, Rutgers & Maryland
This would give competitive balance and recruiting balance at the top of both divisions. If the league doesn't get Texas/OU(but I think that would require more Texas teams which isn't a bad thing for the league) or the state of California through gaining PAC schools I wouldn't be surprised if Nebraska comes to the conclusion they made a mistake coming if they are left on a western island like they currently are.
But since they are going to have divisions the problem is all of the recruiting areas are in the east. Wisconsin has done a great job but that's what really hurts programs like Nebraska and to a lesser extent compete for titles.
If the B1G wants to help give the necessary ingredients to restore the Nebraska brand and help Iowa and even Wisconsin actually compete, there needs to be some equity recruiting wise. I would divide the divisions like this:
A: OSU, Mich., MSU, Northwestern, Ind., Purdue,MN.
B: PSU, Neb., Wisconsin, Ia., Illinois, Rutgers & Maryland
This would give competitive balance and recruiting balance at the top of both divisions. If the league doesn't get Texas/OU(but I think that would require more Texas teams which isn't a bad thing for the league) or the state of California through gaining PAC schools I wouldn't be surprised if Nebraska comes to the conclusion they made a mistake coming if they are left on a western island like they currently are.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Is it November?
