Run Blocking Man vs. Zone scheme Oline Size & Wisconsin

[HawkIMalaise]

As I watched the Rose Bowl last night I was fairly impressed by Wisconsin's ability to basically abandon the pass on a the first few drives and run the ball on what I would consider 1 of the top 5 front 7's in all of college football. I am not familiar with Wisconsin M.O. with blocking schemes whether it is zone or overpowering man to man. I did just take a look at their roster which you can sort by weight Official Football Roster - UWBadgers.com - The Official Web Site of The Wisconsin Badgers Athletics They have 19 guys over 300 lbs. 3 of which are D-Line. (One of which is Beau Allen and they guy was a run stuffer yesterday) We list 2 or 3 guys at 300+ and I know Carl Davis is one of them.

Is this because or our zone blocking schemes, that we don't need guys this big, or do we choose to zone block because we don't get guys this big?

Wisconsin has had countless RB's throughout the last 15 years who look great and are running through massive holes in the line. Most of these guys are not the next Adrian Peterson either. They busted one pinned deep inside their own 5 yesterday out of what was clearly a running formation. We couldn't run with a **** this year and based off of some stats provided by JDM, we don't even get in to the top 25% of rushing yards within the conference in the last decade.

It seems if you can line up and just run over anyone long enough you can set up a decent passing game without much deep threat ability.

Wisconsin has no inherent recruiting advantage at the line positions over us. I think we need some more beef on the O-Line. We should be doing what they do running the ball.

 

[Foval21]

Wisky is a primary man blocking scheme. Iowa is a primary zone blocking scheme. Each uses some of the other. Zone is so you can block without having to have bigger or stronger players. We can't typically recruit the size of linemen that wisky can so the zone scheme is best. It also allows for linemen to be more interchangeable between guard and tackle also.

 

[dave3912]

Official Football Roster - Iowa Official Athletic Site

According the roster, below is the guys listed at or over 300lbs.

Eric Simmons 6-3 300lbs OL
Casey McMillan 6-4 300lbs OL (Gone b/c was a SR this past season)
Jaleel Johnson 6-4 300lbs DL
Brandon Scherff 6-5 310lbs OL
Carl Davis 6-5 310lbs DL
Andrew Donnal 6-7 302lbs OL

Iowa will never have Wisconsin's size on o-line. Iowa focuses on technique and working as a unit plus Wisconsin is just as known for if not more so than Iowa for putting O-linemen in the NFL. Although Iowa does have a few guys that a around 290-295 range as well and they could still put on a few pounds.

However, in recruiting Iowa is slowly moving to bigger DTs.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Wisky is a primary man blocking scheme. Iowa is a primary zone blocking scheme. Each uses some of the other. Zone is so you can block without having to have bigger or stronger players. We can't typically recruit the size of linemen that wisky can so the zone scheme is best. It also allows for linemen to be more interchangeable between guard and tackle also.

To the bold...can't or won't? Honest question...I don't really follow recruiting. I know that we've hitched our wagon to the zone running scheme, so I don't really think we'd want to have those massive humans because they generally don't have the footwork that some of the smaller guys do (I realize you know this...I believe we've discussed zone blocking schemes before).

Hypothetical question though, again to the bolded: If we decided to scrap the zone game and go almost man-block exclusively, would we have trouble keeping up with Wisconsin in the recruiting game? If so...why? Again, an honest question because I don't follow ANYTHING related to recruiting...

Everything else Foval posted I agree with. It allows for using smaller players on the OL because you are often utilizing double teams, it simplifies schemes because rules generally stay the same regardless of the defensive front, and in the event of injuries or inconsistency, guys should be able to move positions easier within a zone scheme.

 

[Foval21]

I think if iowa could recruit bigger guys they felt could do the zone scheme they would (and do). But we typically can't get those guys over the more dominant schools. Remember most teams in the nfl use zone schemes at least part of the time and you rarely see guys under 300 lbs on the ol in the nfl. I would bet it is more a risk reward situation. We go after kids we feel fit our system and we feel we can get. Those have typically been guys that need to develop and gain size. We did go after that kid that ended up at bama (I believe) that was big and talented.

I am not sure we can consistently get guys that are big enough to be man blockers the majority of the time. And as long as kf is here we will continue with the zone because he was an architect of it and it is his baby. I prefer the zone because I feel it is some of the smartest football thinking since bill walsh and his west coast passing system. I think kf is all about risk aversion and sticking with this system and not rocking the boat is what he will do. I just think we look at the zone like it is supposed to lead the league in rushing. It is supposed to allow a solid run attack that allows for high percentage medium to long play action. But our passing attack last yr wasn't that. Even in the bill walsh west coast offense they always had option routes that went deep. That was the main flaw this yr.

 

[bemsj]

Zone schemes do tend to have smaller(not that 275 is small) more athletic lineman.

 

[RenoHightower]

There are a ton of things I am worried about in regards to the Iowa football program. Offensive line play is not one of them.

 

[tm3308]

I think if iowa could recruit bigger guys they felt could do the zone scheme they would (and do). But we typically can't get those guys over the more dominant schools. Remember most teams in the nfl use zone schemes at least part of the time and you rarely see guys under 300 lbs on the ol in the nfl. I would bet it is more a risk reward situation. We go after kids we feel fit our system and we feel we can get. Those have typically been guys that need to develop and gain size. We did go after that kid that ended up at bama (I believe) that was big and talented.

I am not sure we can consistently get guys that are big enough to be man blockers the majority of the time. And as long as kf is here we will continue with the zone because he was an architect of it and it is his baby. I prefer the zone because I feel it is some of the smartest football thinking since bill walsh and his west coast passing system. I think kf is all about risk aversion and sticking with this system and not rocking the boat is what he will do. I just think we look at the zone like it is supposed to lead the league in rushing. It is supposed to allow a solid run attack that allows for high percentage medium to long play action. But our passing attack last yr wasn't that. Even in the bill walsh west coast offense they always had option routes that went deep. That was the main flaw this yr.

I think if Iowa wanted to switch to primary man blocking, they could consistently get the bigger lineman. But getting guys that size who are also athletic enough and have good enough footwork to play zone are the cream of the crop. Those guys, we won't consistently get.

 

[Sparky]

This was the first year that I've worried about the Iowa offensive line because of our players. A zone blocking scheme requires somewhat smaller lineman that are quick on their feet and have pristine technique AND it requires a RB who can see laterally and hit a hole very quickly. The reason that is so is because zone blocking is meant to move the unit as a whole in one direction which naturally opens up holes or seems to run through. Zone blocking is also much more common in teams that prefer the run because it allows the players to break off and block up field. It is also responsible for more RB injuries than running a man...go figure.

Offenses that run man or drive need strong lineman who can physically man handle the defenders, that way they can get their shoulders turned away from the hole and make room for the running back. It's a much more simple scheme to run because the RB is assigned to a hole or gab and it's the lineman's job to create that hole. It's also more common for offenses to run the pass off of man.

So, it's not that Iowa can't recruit bigger lineman, it's just that they don't want to because it doesn't fit their scheme.

 

[RenoHightower]

Zone blocking is also much more common in teams that prefer the run because it allows the players to break off and block up field. It is also responsible for more RB injuries than running a man...go figure.

You're going to need to explain this, and possibly provide a bunch of links.

 

[Sparky]

You're going to need to explain this, and possibly provide a bunch of links.

Really? I can do it, but I don't want to.

Edit: I just realized that it shouldn't say RB it should be DL injuries. It was very late.

 

[RenoHightower]

Really? I can do it, but I don't want to. Edit: I just realized that it shouldn't say RB it should be DL injuries. It was very late.

OK, I'll buy that. It sounded like you were contending there was more inherent danger to the ball carrier in one blocking scheme versus the other.

 

[madrx]

Wisconsin does tend to pull the majority of their offensive line recruits from Wisconsin high school programs, with a few recruits from other states in the big ten footprint added as well. I live in Madison and watching the state high school playoffs you will see a lot of huge offensive lineman each year.

It will be interesting to see if they have a dropoff in their line play going forward, as the o-line coach left before last season to go to Pitt with Paul Chryst and BB fired this year's line coach a few weeks into the season. I'm not sure who the new coach will have coaching this position going forward.

 

[eveningnewsteam]

They already had a drop off in line play this year. They couldnt line up and and just run down your throat against good teams like they have in the past. So they did something crazy, something were not use to seeing at Iowa, they adjusted and implemented the jet sweep with Gordon keeping opponents from just focusing on the power run game.

 

[Sparky]

OK, I'll buy that. It sounded like you were contending there was more inherent danger to the ball carrier in one blocking scheme versus the other.

Good catch, from my knowledge I definetly don't see why there would be more injuries. It poses more of a risk to the DL and DE because of the chop blocking involved.