Reality: Hawks are playing without 4 probable starters

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uihawk82

Well-Known Member
TCook and Moss, gone. JBo and Nunge out/gone. They were all probable starters and Iowa's program can't do near as well with that scenario as right now JW and Garza are the only two top players. So enjoy watching the hawks as I will knowing they are very undermanned yet when they can sink the shots they still have a chance.

Maybe time to work a lot of high low movement with Garza going outside and JW posting up etc etc and move off of this feature. Who knows.
 
The way I see it is this year's team is down 3 starters and one key bench player. At the start of the year we had 9 guys on the team that could be at least decent contributors. There are probably only 10 schools in the country who have more than 9 guys capable of playing good at this level so save the "Fran couldn't fill a roster with 13 good players" take. When you have 9 good players and it drops to 4, you have to give a lot of minutes to guys who just aren't good enough to contribute. Those minutes are killing us right now. We could have lost our 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th best players and we would still be in trouble for that reason. Losing our 3rd, 4th, and 5th best player is just too much.
 
I think the basis of this entire thread and honestly a good portion of posters I am reading on here today in general is... Iowa has suffered an insurmountable amount of attrition and at this point, it could explain why things go south if they do this year. At some point, losing this much talent is gonna catch up to a program that wasn't exactly on the highest ground to begin with. That said, IMO, I still see plenty to be excited about for the short term future if the roster doesn't have a lot of shake up and IMO, the start of the year showed me we have a coach that is pretty good at developing, coaching and identifying talent. Ultimately that won't matter to me tho unless we win more.
 
InGoodCo said:
I think the basis of this entire thread and honestly a good portion of posters I am reading on here today in general is... Iowa has suffered an insurmountable amount of attrition and at this point, it could explain why things go south if they do this year. At some point, losing this much talent is gonna catch up to a program that wasn't exactly on the highest ground to begin with. That said, IMO, I still see plenty to be excited about for the short term future if the roster doesn't have a lot of shake up and IMO, the start of the year showed me we have a coach that is pretty good at developing, coaching and identifying talent. Ultimately that won't matter to me tho unless we win more.
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Everyone says it's a guards game and I think we will have two good ones for three more years.
 
Posted this in another thread:

Bottom line, Year 10, no Sweet 16s, no conferences tittles. And, likely no NCAA sniff this year. I don't blame Fran for injuries, but I do think responsibility lies with this staff to put together complete rosters, which, even if the team was healthy, still had question marks because of overall recruiting. JBo is more of a two, that can play the one if he has to. No stud point guard and we have to rely on a young freshman, JT, to carry the load. No proven stud at the 4 position.....even if Tyler would have stuck around....which would have helped no question....he can't shoot. Moss was recruited to play here and at the end of the day he did not want to be a Hawk anymore. It is the coaches who recruit these players and it is their job to inspire them and keep them happy (within reason).

Then, again, if Tyler stuck around, would Garza be having the year is having this year? Or would coach have played Tyler more at the 5 (playing him out of position) and Garza's role would have been a bit diminished. That would have not surprised me a bit.

I would consider 2 out of every 3 years average for making the NCAAs (66% clip). Actually, that would be better than average of the good Dr. In 7 years (throwing this year in as well and making the educated guess they will not make it), in reality, Fran's teams have cleanly made the NCAA tournament (no play-in games, which I consider as purgatory between the NIT and NCAAs) 3 times. Under 500 chance of making the tournament in a given year. Not good. And Mr. Davis had made appearances in the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 at Iowa (also an Elite 8 at another school prior to coming to Iowa).

Almost always seems like we are dangling a carrot on a stick with Fran at the helm. And, his peak, has been what Mr. Davis did most years when he was at Iowa.

Does not inspire a lot of confidence if you are attempting to build a championship team. Championship team, heck, this program is still trying to complete a year where the bowling ball does not spend a significant amount of time in the gutter.


So, all things considered:

1. Are you happy/satisfied with Fran's tenure at Iowa in 10 years?
2. Could we get the same results with 50 other coaches out there?
3. Do you think Fran will ever win a Big Ten Title at Iowa, or get Iowa to the Sweet 16 (or beyond) knowing he has never done it at Iowa or another school before it?
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
Posted this in another thread:

Bottom line, Year 10, no Sweet 16s, no conferences tittles. And, likely no NCAA sniff this year. I don't blame Fran for injuries, but I do think responsibility lies with this staff to put together complete rosters, which, even if the team was healthy, still had question marks because of overall recruiting. JBo is more of a two, that can play the one if he has to. No stud point guard and we have to rely on a young freshman, JT, to carry the load. No proven stud at the 4 position.....even if Tyler would have stuck around....which would have helped no question....he can't shoot. Moss was recruited to play here and at the end of the day he did not want to be a Hawk anymore. It is the coaches who recruit these players and it is their job to inspire them and keep them happy (within reason).

Then, again, if Tyler stuck around, would Garza be having the year is having this year? Or would coach have played Tyler more at the 5 (playing him out of position) and Garza's role would have been a bit diminished. That would have not surprised me a bit.

I would consider 2 out of every 3 years average for making the NCAAs (66% clip). Actually, that would be better than average of the good Dr. In 7 years (throwing this year in as well and making the educated guess they will not make it), in reality, Fran's teams have cleanly made the NCAA tournament (no play-in games, which I consider as purgatory between the NIT and NCAAs) 3 times. Under 500 chance of making the tournament in a given year. Not good. And Mr. Davis had made appearances in the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 at Iowa (also an Elite 8 at another school prior to coming to Iowa).

Almost always seems like we are dangling a carrot on a stick with Fran at the helm. And, his peak, has been what Mr. Davis did most years when he was at Iowa.

Does not inspire a lot of confidence if you are attempting to build a championship team. Championship team, heck, this program is still trying to complete a year where the bowling ball does not spend a significant amount of time in the gutter.


So, all things considered:

1. Are you happy/satisfied with Fran's tenure at Iowa in 10 years?
2. Could we get the same results with 50 other coaches out there?
3. Do you think Fran will ever win a Big Ten Title at Iowa, or get Iowa to the Sweet 16 (or beyond) knowing he has never done it at Iowa or another school before it?
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I'm satisfied with the results but not happy.

Yes we could get the same results with 50 other coaches. We could get better results with probably 20-30 coaches. We would just have to get one of them to come here. We would get worse results from hundreds of other coaches. We could also get better results from the coach we have. Which I think he will deliver next year.

I think there is a decent chance he will win a conference championship in the next 3 years, with next year being a pretty darn good chance. He's already came a handful of plays from winning one 4 years ago. Barely lost at home to Wisconsin and Indiana in really close games where they both nailed a 3 late to win. If they both miss those 3s, there is a very good chance Fran always has one here. I think there's about a 75% chance he gets to a sweet 16 in the next few years. What he did at past schools is irrelevant because he's never been at a school where a sweet 16 was very realistic before Iowa. He worked miracles to even get them to the tournament.
 
Injuries definitely hurt, but I think when you're halfway into a season and still factoring in players that left in the offseason it's a stretch. It's a new team and while I get where the argument that Cook and Moss leaving early hurts the team, I simply don't see it as factor this point in the season. Teams recruit to replace players and should have players waiting in the wings to fill those roles. Players leaving early is a part of the game and I don't think a valid argument when assessing where a team is at midway through a season.

I don't see many arguments saying that we exceeded expectations in the win column during the first half of the year because Moss and Cook we're no longer part of the team so I don't think it's a fair argument to factor them in to the equation of why we struggle regardless of the fact that we're much thinner across the board as a result of injuries.
 
kicker22 said:
Injuries definitely hurt, but I think when you're halfway into a season and still factoring in players that left in the offseason it's a stretch. It's a new team and while I get where the argument that Cook and Moss leaving early hurts the team, I simply don't see it as factor this point in the season. Teams recruit to replace players and should have players waiting in the wings to fill those roles. Players leaving early is a part of the game and I don't think a valid argument when assessing where a team is at midway through a season.

I don't see many arguments saying that we exceeded expectations in the win column during the first half of the year because Moss and Cook we're no longer part of the team so I don't think it's a fair argument to factor them in to the equation of why we struggle regardless of the fact that we're much thinner across the board as a result of injuries.
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I partially agree. But if Luka leaves early, it will affect next year quite a bit and it's completely out of Fran's control. I think it's completely fine for a fan to recognize that fact.
 
What you see is what you get with Fran - a good but not great coach that does just enough - including pulling out the occasional big upset - to keep the train moving forward.

The frustration with him is that just when you think the program is going to take that next step, it regresses, and the cycle starts all over.

At the end of the day, it's really on each individual fan to come to terms with his/her expectations, and decide whether or not Fran does enough to warrant being the coach moving forward. Personally, I think we could do better, but obviously we could do worse as well. Therein lies the gamble.

Unless Garza leaves early, he should have one of his best teams next season. For me, what will be telling is what happens the 2-3 years after that. He needs to show that he can stack and sustain success - something he hasn't done to this point.
 
PCHawk said:
I partially agree. But if Luka leaves early, it will affect next year quite a bit and it's completely out of Fran's control. I think it's completely fine for a fan to recognize that fact.
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Agreed, but then I think it's also fair for that same coach to be criticized in the event he doesn't have a player ready to contribute if that were to happen. Players leaving early and transferring is a part of the game that affects (or can affect) all programs. If a coach isn't prepared if/when that happens then the player leaving may be out of his control, but that same coach is also partly responsible for what happens to the program in that players absence.
 
kicker22 said:
Agreed, but then I think it's also fair for that same coach to be criticized in the event he doesn't have a player ready to contribute if that were to happen. Players leaving early and transferring is a part of the game that affects (or can affect) all programs. If a coach isn't prepared if/when that happens then the player leaving may be out of his control, but that same coach is also partly responsible for what happens to the program in that players absence.
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I'm not going to crucify Fran for not having a borderline all american next year to replace Luka. Even if he had one, we would still be worse off because we could have had 2 had Luka stayed. The fact is, this year we lost Cook early to the pros and Moss left so he could win more (what a stupid loser thing to do, quit on your team to join a different team in the hopes to win more games) and Fran had a roster waiting that was maybe going to be even better. That's what I'm judging him on this year. I won't judge him on losing 4 valuable players to injury.
 
I believe that continuity is the way to go, plus rebuilding under a new coach sucks. If we replaced Fran we would most likely end up with a coach who sounds great but ends up being worse.


Pitino 8-10 NIT, 6-12, 2-16, 11-7 NCAA 1st round, 4-14, 9-11 NCAA 2nd round

Archie Miller 9-9, 8-12 NIT, (they almost lost at home to NW Wednesday, after Neb took them to overtime on their home court.

Groce 8-10 NCAA, 7-11 NIT, 9-9NIT, 5-13, 8-10.

Miles 8 yrs of Nothing

Outdoing the Michigan schools has got to be simple right?
Continuity has worked for MSU, it works for Purdue, and it sort of works for Wisconsin.
 
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