Poll: The reason we are a developmental program is cuz . . .
- Thread starter Joshbrown
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deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Lombardi, Van Ginkel, French are are developmental guys. Heck Van Ginkel only has 2 years left and hasn't played 1 down of P5 football. Lombardi is 3 years away from every contributing and French was recruited by Iowa as a DE, because that is what he was. These 3 are/were developmental guys.
I'll give you Pierschbacher, Arrington and Darboh. Would have loved to see those guys in black and gold. Yet if you are saying that the home state should beat out Bama and Michigan for recruits every time, then every school in the country has the same problem Iowa does.......cause Bama and
Michigan have been taking the best players from other states for decades.
I'll give you Pierschbacher, Arrington and Darboh. Would have loved to see those guys in black and gold. Yet if you are saying that the home state should beat out Bama and Michigan for recruits every time, then every school in the country has the same problem Iowa does.......cause Bama and
Michigan have been taking the best players from other states for decades.
Not necessarily to defend Kirk on recruiting but most programs that don't win on a more consistent basis struggle to keep instate prospects when approached by programs that are clearly trending upwards or are among the so called elite traditionally.
As Kirk has mentioned himself, the recruiting world has all been moving at a faster clip. That includes prospects judging programs on shorter term results.
As Kirk has mentioned himself, the recruiting world has all been moving at a faster clip. That includes prospects judging programs on shorter term results.
hawkeyes87
Well-Known Member
Voted "Even when".
First, can anybody name 3 players from last year who are noticeably better this year? I don't know that there's that much "development" happening. Positive development anyway - CJ obviously looks different.
But they have to hope for "development" because they consistently play guys with limited / questionable skill when there are more talented players on the roster. And, the limited guys need more polish.
Also, being so predictable on both sides of the ball means that execution needs to be close to perfect to have success against decent teams.
First, can anybody name 3 players from last year who are noticeably better this year? I don't know that there's that much "development" happening. Positive development anyway - CJ obviously looks different.
But they have to hope for "development" because they consistently play guys with limited / questionable skill when there are more talented players on the roster. And, the limited guys need more polish.
Also, being so predictable on both sides of the ball means that execution needs to be close to perfect to have success against decent teams.
I don't know if there are more talented players on our roster or not but I know there seems to be a lot more on other program's rosters these days.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
You have a point about Pierschbacher and Darboh, but what did ferentz do to mitigate losing out on your #1 left OT and WR in the state? The real reason we are a developmental program is because we choose to be. I'm not saying that all Iowa has to do is flip a switch and recruiting gets better; but being boring, not playing backup players and locking in on starters because, on purpose, your backups "aren't developmentally ready" impedes going out and getting athletes. They see what has happened, over time.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
It would be awesome if we got the big names, but honestly it'll always be tough.
That being said, everything else we do makes it so freaking difficult to even get quality classes. I think a program like Iowa could consistently be in the 20-30 rankings for recruiting if we changed the culture.
It would start by actually trying for the higher recruits.
Change the offense
Change the idea that FR cannot see the field other than special teams
Substitute more on both sides of the ball so that there's more playing time
All of these things we don't do right now, and you know other teams, or hell, even the kids research and see. Why would any higher level WR even bother coming to Iowa? The last time a true freshman started at WR? Dominque Douglas?
We always say the same thing with our recruits for WR and RB. Their film looks good, can't wait to see what they can do, show promise in the spring/fall scrimmages, and then never see them for at least three years. Assuming they don't leave the program first.
That being said, everything else we do makes it so freaking difficult to even get quality classes. I think a program like Iowa could consistently be in the 20-30 rankings for recruiting if we changed the culture.
It would start by actually trying for the higher recruits.
Change the offense
Change the idea that FR cannot see the field other than special teams
Substitute more on both sides of the ball so that there's more playing time
All of these things we don't do right now, and you know other teams, or hell, even the kids research and see. Why would any higher level WR even bother coming to Iowa? The last time a true freshman started at WR? Dominque Douglas?
We always say the same thing with our recruits for WR and RB. Their film looks good, can't wait to see what they can do, show promise in the spring/fall scrimmages, and then never see them for at least three years. Assuming they don't leave the program first.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
This is who we are. It has worked. KF isn't going to change it. That simple.
It's really pretty ridiculous to continue arguing about it or bitching about it. If it bothers you that much then cheer for someone else because it just isn't going to change. Ferentz won't beg or heap constant praise on a teenage kid just to satisfy the young man's ego in order to get him to come play football here. He just won't do that. That isn't the kind of kid he wants playing for him. Iowa will never consistently compete for 4 and 5 star recruits unless they have some sort of a connection to Iowa. Most of the time they have to live here or have a connection to the Hawks in order to even take a look. If that bothers you then cheer for Alabama or Michigan or Ohio State. Or continue to cheer for the Hawks and bitch and moan about them every chance you get. Whatever floats your boat. Doesn't seem like an enjoyable way to be a fan to me though.
It's really pretty ridiculous to continue arguing about it or bitching about it. If it bothers you that much then cheer for someone else because it just isn't going to change. Ferentz won't beg or heap constant praise on a teenage kid just to satisfy the young man's ego in order to get him to come play football here. He just won't do that. That isn't the kind of kid he wants playing for him. Iowa will never consistently compete for 4 and 5 star recruits unless they have some sort of a connection to Iowa. Most of the time they have to live here or have a connection to the Hawks in order to even take a look. If that bothers you then cheer for Alabama or Michigan or Ohio State. Or continue to cheer for the Hawks and bitch and moan about them every chance you get. Whatever floats your boat. Doesn't seem like an enjoyable way to be a fan to me though.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
Maybe being 1900 miles away makes me a little more bitter with the product. Maybe it's more fun if I was able to go to Kinnick and take in the atmosphere of gameday along with the results on the field.
But since I'm not there, all I can say is that Iowa is one of the most boring teams to watch. To say it has worked is true, it's worked 5x in 18 years. 33% of the time, we have a great team. The rest, average.
For me to watch another team, I couldn't even possibly dream of it. Grown up with the Hawks, and just like those people who grew up and watched the "dark ages", I'll continue to support the players throughout any season. But this staff, no way. He almost had me back in his camp after last year, but this year put me on the retirement watch again
But since I'm not there, all I can say is that Iowa is one of the most boring teams to watch. To say it has worked is true, it's worked 5x in 18 years. 33% of the time, we have a great team. The rest, average.
For me to watch another team, I couldn't even possibly dream of it. Grown up with the Hawks, and just like those people who grew up and watched the "dark ages", I'll continue to support the players throughout any season. But this staff, no way. He almost had me back in his camp after last year, but this year put me on the retirement watch again
DP5555
Well-Known Member
You do realize having a great team 33% of the time is pretty damn good at a place like Iowa though right? I can see how some people may feel like I'm not setting my standards high enough, but I could just as easily argue you aren't being realistic. There's a boatload of programs out there who would take that in a heartbeat. It bothers me that so many Hawk fans seem to take it for granted. The successful years tend to make people demand more and expect more. That's human nature. I'm guilty of that too. However, every once in awhile I'm quickly reminded that what we have is pretty damn good, and I'm not the type of person who isn't going to appreciate what I have. I prefer to count my blessings and be happy than constantly wish for something better.
hawkeyes87
Well-Known Member
5 / 18 = 28%, not 33
Also, only 2 of those 5 great years since 2004. 2 / 12 = 17% great.
Also, only 2 of those 5 great years since 2004. 2 / 12 = 17% great.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
So if Iowa only expects to be good 28% of the time, why did we upgrade all of our facilities? Why even be in the Big10?
It's about effort, and while I don't doubt the coaches passion to win, I do doubt their passion in recruiting and adapting to a changing game.
It shows in our record over the past 12 years.
It's about effort, and while I don't doubt the coaches passion to win, I do doubt their passion in recruiting and adapting to a changing game.
It shows in our record over the past 12 years.
Joshbrown
Well-Known Member
Losing to teams with less talent and fewer resources shouldn't be acceptable to anyone who pays inflated ticket prices. You're living in a year when people are justified in wanting to get rid of establishment thinking. Join us folks who are trying to MAKE HAWKEYE FOOTBALL GREAT AGAIN!!
IAHAWK1982
Well-Known Member
I think many of you need to be more realistic. Iowa is not a national power house or recognized program. Being fans of Iowa and living in the state your view is skewed. This coaching staff does try to recruit 4/5* players, but it is tough when those players don't even know where Iowa City is. I grew up in New Jersey and when I told my friends I was going to Iowa they were like isn't that where they grow potatoes? Yeah it sucks when Iowa doesn't get the best players in the state, but it is hard to win out over Alabama or Michigan. Also, don't forget the recruiting ranks are skewed based on the state the player is from and who is recruiting them. Some of Iowa's 3* recruits would be 4/5* if they were from another state or if Alabama was recruiting them. Not saying program should settle for less quality, but we as fans should be a little more realistic.
http://www.cornnation.com/2016/12/2...raska-huskers-football-staff-arizona-wildcats
Ferentz has had similar opportunities in the past when filling positions but seldom makes recruiting skills a top priority when filling asst coach openings. He doesn't have to be a great recruiter himself but he needs to build his staff with a few that can enhance our position on the recruiting front . As an example, I don't see Riley as a great recruiter but he is building a staff with some that fill that need.
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Will also be interesting to follow what Iowa does with a potential 10th position allowance for their staff. Will they look for someone with a strong recruiting skill set? I would welcome being surprised.
http://footballscoop.com/news/fbs-programs-will-use-10th-assistant-coach/
Ferentz has had similar opportunities in the past when filling positions but seldom makes recruiting skills a top priority when filling asst coach openings. He doesn't have to be a great recruiter himself but he needs to build his staff with a few that can enhance our position on the recruiting front . As an example, I don't see Riley as a great recruiter but he is building a staff with some that fill that need.
________________________________________
Will also be interesting to follow what Iowa does with a potential 10th position allowance for their staff. Will they look for someone with a strong recruiting skill set? I would welcome being surprised.
http://footballscoop.com/news/fbs-programs-will-use-10th-assistant-coach/
