Pentagon of Hate

C

CP87

Well-Known Member
I think it was Scott Dochterman that coined the Iowa-Minnesota-Nebraska-NW-Wisconsin rivalries the "Pentagon of Hate". Lots of shared borders and mutual dislike amongst those teams.

If Bielema gets Illinois going, this might have to become the Hexagon of Hate, but until then, I was curious how these teams have fared vs. one another since the East-West divisions were created (2014 was first year of East-West).

1608560575405.png

Observations:

NW has been a thorn in Iowa's side, but Wisconsin definitely feels the same about the Wildcats (the only team Wisconsin has a losing record against).

Wisconsin has dominated (not a single losing conference record in this span), but in their few down years ('18 and '20), NW has been able to capitalize, and Iowa has not (a crushing 0-4 vs. NW and Purdue in those years).

Did you remember that Nebraska started 7-0 under Riley in 2016 (all against bad teams, but still)? They were ranked #7 in the AP when they faced Wisconsin on October 29. Starting with a loss that day vs. Wisconsin, Nebraska is 18-32 (36%) from that point on, including 14-30 vs. P5 (32%). In the midst of all of that, they were inexplicably ranked in the pre-season AP top-25 at the start of 2019.

Purdue doesn't seem to fit in this division. Maybe we should jettison Rutgers, add Missouri, and move Purdue to the East. Illinois-Iowa-Minn-Mizzou-Neb-NW-Wisc might not have much national cache, but that would be a fun division. Lots of regional hate.
 
CP87 said:
Did you remember that Nebraska started 7-0 under Riley in 2016 (all against bad teams, but still)? They were ranked #7 in the AP when they faced Wisconsin on October 29. Starting with a loss that day vs. Wisconsin, Nebraska is 18-32 (36%) from that point on, including 14-30 vs. P5 (32%). In the midst of all of that, they were inexplicably ranked in the pre-season AP top-25 at the start of 2019.
Click to expand...

Did Wisconsin fake a punt that game? I cant remember
 
CP87 said:
I think it was Scott Dochterman that coined the Iowa-Minnesota-Nebraska-NW-Wisconsin rivalries the "Pentagon of Hate". Lots of shared borders and mutual dislike amongst those teams.

If Bielema gets Illinois going, this might have to become the Hexagon of Hate, but until then, I was curious how these teams have fared vs. one another since the East-West divisions were created (2014 was first year of East-West).

View attachment 7268

Observations:

NW has been a thorn in Iowa's side, but Wisconsin definitely feels the same about the Wildcats (the only team Wisconsin has a losing record against).

Wisconsin has dominated (not a single losing conference record in this span), but in their few down years ('18 and '20), NW has been able to capitalize, and Iowa has not (a crushing 0-4 vs. NW and Purdue in those years).

Did you remember that Nebraska started 7-0 under Riley in 2016 (all against bad teams, but still)? They were ranked #7 in the AP when they faced Wisconsin on October 29. Starting with a loss that day vs. Wisconsin, Nebraska is 18-32 (36%) from that point on, including 14-30 vs. P5 (32%). In the midst of all of that, they were inexplicably ranked in the pre-season AP top-25 at the start of 2019.

Purdue doesn't seem to fit in this division. Maybe we should jettison Rutgers, add Missouri, and move Purdue to the East. Illinois-Iowa-Minn-Mizzou-Neb-NW-Wisc might not have much national cache, but that would be a fun division. Lots of regional hate.
Click to expand...
Nice analysis! I've been working up something similar, but haven't got it to the point where it's complete enough to post. You've inspired me, maybe over break I'll give it some attention.
 
CP87 said:
I think it was Scott Dochterman that coined the Iowa-Minnesota-Nebraska-NW-Wisconsin rivalries the "Pentagon of Hate". Lots of shared borders and mutual dislike amongst those teams.

If Bielema gets Illinois going, this might have to become the Hexagon of Hate, but until then, I was curious how these teams have fared vs. one another since the East-West divisions were created (2014 was first year of East-West).

View attachment 7268

Observations:

NW has been a thorn in Iowa's side, but Wisconsin definitely feels the same about the Wildcats (the only team Wisconsin has a losing record against).

Wisconsin has dominated (not a single losing conference record in this span), but in their few down years ('18 and '20), NW has been able to capitalize, and Iowa has not (a crushing 0-4 vs. NW and Purdue in those years).

Did you remember that Nebraska started 7-0 under Riley in 2016 (all against bad teams, but still)? They were ranked #7 in the AP when they faced Wisconsin on October 29. Starting with a loss that day vs. Wisconsin, Nebraska is 18-32 (36%) from that point on, including 14-30 vs. P5 (32%). In the midst of all of that, they were inexplicably ranked in the pre-season AP top-25 at the start of 2019.

Purdue doesn't seem to fit in this division. Maybe we should jettison Rutgers, add Missouri, and move Purdue to the East. Illinois-Iowa-Minn-Mizzou-Neb-NW-Wisc might not have much national cache, but that would be a fun division. Lots of regional hate.
Click to expand...

Oops, noted an error in the table (Wisc is 6-0 vs. Nebraska, not 7-0; this year's game was cancelled).
 
This is where I wish Missouri would have been added to the Big Ten, I remember they applied and were rejected back in the day. Then Iowa could have had border wars in every direction.
 
ssckelley said:
This is where I wish Missouri would have been added to the Big Ten, I remember they applied and were rejected back in the day.
Click to expand...
Er, no. Missouri's coach back then, Gary Pinkel, wanted nothing to do with the B1G, for whatever reason. HE is the one who fought against games against B1G teams, including the famous 4-game Iowa series, and even worked to shut down the "Border War" vs. Illinois. Eventually, he got his wish being added to the SEC after Nebraska joined the Big Ten.

Today, I'm not so sure we wouldn't have been better off getting Missouri and keeping Nebraska in the Big 12 - they have not been the addition everybody (especially them) thought they would be.
 
I thought the SEC would deflate Missouri and take the best players out of St. Louis and KC. I was wrong. Missouri has done respectably, all considering. So far St. Louis and KC are far enough away from most of the SEC that Mizzou's recruits haven't gotten poached big time.

Arkansas was a different story. They don't have an instate population to recruit from so they relied on North East Texas and Oklahoma as their recruiting ground. After they stopped playing in Texas their recruiting crashed.
 
GVGiant44 said:
Er, no. Missouri's coach back then, Gary Pinkel, wanted nothing to do with the B1G, for whatever reason. HE is the one who fought against games against B1G teams, including the famous 4-game Iowa series, and even worked to shut down the "Border War" vs. Illinois. Eventually, he got his wish being added to the SEC after Nebraska joined the Big Ten.

Today, I'm not so sure we wouldn't have been better off getting Missouri and keeping Nebraska in the Big 12 - they have not been the addition everybody (especially them) thought they would be.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter what the coach wants. Missouri wanted in the Big Ten and were open about it but the Big Ten preferred to expand in the east.
 
ssckelley said:
It doesn't matter what the coach wants. Missouri wanted in the Big Ten and were open about it but the Big Ten preferred to expand in the east.
Click to expand...
A rivalry with Mizzou would have been great. But having lived in NJ when Rutgers and Maryland were added I will attest the expansion was huge in terms of B1G awareness and visibility in the mid-Atlantic and the Northeast. Those new major TV markets and their ad and eyeball revenues were a boon to the BTN, the conference and the individual schools.
 
tweeterhawk said:
A rivalry with Mizzou would have been great. But having lived in NJ when Rutgers and Maryland were added I will attest the expansion was huge in terms of B1G awareness and visibility in the mid-Atlantic and the Northeast. Those new major TV markets and their ad and eyeball revenues were a boon to the BTN, the conference and the individual schools.
Click to expand...
I remember how much revenue adding the New York market did for BTN along with the DC and Baltimore markets. Financial reasons it made sense but the fan in me wanted Missouri thinking the St Louis and KC markets had some clout. They do, just not as much as the east coast market.
 
guffus said:
Big Ten should go to 3 divisions

East
MD, Rut, PSU, OSU

Central
Mich, MSU, Indy, Pur, ILL

Pentagon of Hate
IOWA, Neb, Minn, Wisc, NW
Click to expand...
I like it. Add Pitt to the East to balance the divisions.

Edit: 4 team play off for the B1G title. 3 division winners and a WC. Shake shit up in the NCAA
 
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