Off-Topic — Aaron Hernandez Netflix documentary

Denverhawk1

Well-Known Member
Anyone watch that? First off, how was that over 6 years ago already? Secondly, that mofo was crazy. Had a lot of bad shit happen to him in his life, circumstances weren’t good. But, he’s still responsible for his actions. I think we all get it, pro football players are a commodity to the organization, there were parts of this story that were eye opening to me. In the end, a horribly sad story.
 
I remember former Patriot Wes Welker once said when Hernandez was new to their team, he was trying to figure out how to run a projector to watch video one day. Hernandez couldn't figure out how to run it and asked Wes for some help. Wes said he jokingly replied "figure it out yourself rookie." Wes then said Hernandez gave him this look like he wanted to kill him. Wes said he felt very uncomfortable and walked away. Wes said Hernandez had a very evil look in his eyes during that moment and that it spooked him.
 
Anyone watch that? First off, how was that over 6 years ago already? Secondly, that mofo was crazy. Had a lot of bad shit happen to him in his life, circumstances weren’t good. But, he’s still responsible for his actions. I think we all get it, pro football players are a commodity to the organization, there were parts of this story that were eye opening to me. In the end, a horribly sad story.
Here's my take on Hernandez...

Some people are born more predisposed to violence and are born more, say, sociopathic. I don't think anyone would argue that. There are kids out there who are probably too soft-hearted and considerate of others, and there are those who don't seem to have any altruistic characteristics and end up cutting kittens' heads off. Like anything in the natural world there's a spectrum.

I think it's fairly obvious that based on people's experiences with Hernandez even before football he was way off to one end. Then add growing up poor, gang experience, lots off money, and a whole lot of CTE and you get a guy who murders people, has zero conscience about it, and is under the delusion that he'll get away with it.

Were hundreds of sub-concussive impacts to the head and probably numerous concussions what pushed him over the edge as far as impulse control? I don't know. It would appear to me that there's a high likelihood of that. Jovan Belcher, Chris Benoit, Aaron Hernandez...all the same story in most ways. But regardless of the cause, there's always a choice if you decide that you can't deal with the world anymore. I'm not an advocate of suicide by any means, but Junior Seau and Dave Duerson decided that they couldn't cope anymore and made a more honorable decision than the three formerly mentioned players. There's a choice. I feel bad for Junior Seau, Duerson, Tyler Sash...They couldn't outrun their demons but they didn't take anyone else over the edge with them. I don't feel bad for Hernandez and Lawrence Phillips.
 
And by the way since we're on the topic, have any of you heard Brett Favre talk lately? Hoooooooly SHIT.

He was in Sioux City recently to speak at a leadership presentation, and...just...wow...

So sad to see that guy like that. They showed a small bit of it on the news and 620 KMNS had a decent length interview with him and he sounds like he's under anesthesia and his mouth's full of Novocaine. Even the simplest questions he gets like three or four words out before he has to stop and think for a few seconds, and lot of his answers you can tell are canned responses that he's been coached on to give reporters when he can't make his brain act fast enough. I thought maybe the reason you don't hear from the guy anymore is because he was laying low, but it's painfully obvious that his handlers are keeping him away from TV cameras like Muhammad Ali.

All those millions of dollars don't mean shit now. They mean absolutely nothing. Good grief.
 
I fell asleep to the first part of it last wkend. Might check out the rest of it. I'm curious about the brother that was on Iowas staff for a little while. He wasn't at Iowa too long and I think he's out of coaching all together now but I'm not sure.
Such a messed up deal. Sad as all get out. I haven't seen much of it yet but I'm most curious about what his gf/fiancée wife whatever she is to him knew about his day to day everything.
 
I remember former Patriot Wes Welker once said when Hernandez was new to their team, he was trying to figure out how to run a projector to watch video one day. Hernandez couldn't figure out how to run it and asked Wes for some help. Wes said he jokingly replied "figure it out yourself rookie." Wes then said Hernandez gave him this look like he wanted to kill him. Wes said he felt very uncomfortable and walked away. Wes said Hernandez had a very evil look in his eyes during that moment and that it spooked him.

I remember watching an NFL studio show with OJ in the 90's, before he killed Ron and Nicole of course. OJ didn't know the camera was on him and he just had an evil look in his eyes about something and I remembered that moment a couple of years later when it was clear he offed Ron and Nicole. Well, he is still looking for the real killers I guess so...
 
And by the way since we're on the topic, have any of you heard Brett Favre talk lately? Hoooooooly SHIT.

He was in Sioux City recently to speak at a leadership presentation, and...just...wow...

So sad to see that guy like that. They showed a small bit of it on the news and 620 KMNS had a decent length interview with him and he sounds like he's under anesthesia and his mouth's full of Novocaine. Even the simplest questions he gets like three or four words out before he has to stop and think for a few seconds, and lot of his answers you can tell are canned responses that he's been coached on to give reporters when he can't make his brain act fast enough. I thought maybe the reason you don't hear from the guy anymore is because he was laying low, but it's painfully obvious that his handlers are keeping him away from TV cameras like Muhammad Ali.

All those millions of dollars don't mean shit now. They mean absolutely nothing. Good grief.
I've only seen what little bit they want you to see of him lately. That's sad to hear. Would hate to see him like that at all. Wonder why he's doing those kind of speaking engagements. He shouldn't need the $ and he's never seemed the type to enjoy that sort of thing. I think he was coaching kids in MS as an OC for his hometown HS. Not sure if he still is.
 
I just finished watching the Hernandez special. Seems logical to me, that all potential recruits should have to undergo CTE testing before they can be allowed to play collegiate football. Once they are in school, they should have to go through the same tests on a yearly basis. The NFL should monitor these results before drafting players and continue to go through with their own tests during a players career. If at anytime along the way the tests show something abnormal, they are done. Insurance companies can come up with a CTE insurance benefits program to help the players after diagnosis.
 
Here's my take on Hernandez...


Were hundreds of sub-concussive impacts to the head and probably numerous concussions what pushed him over the edge as far as impulse control? I don't know. It would appear to me that there's a high likelihood of that. Jovan Belcher, Chris Benoit, Aaron Hernandez...all the same story in most ways. But regardless of the cause, there's always a choice if you decide that you can't deal with the world anymore. I'm not an advocate of suicide by any means, but Junior Seau and Dave Duerson decided that they couldn't cope anymore and made a more honorable decision than the three formerly mentioned players. There's a choice. I feel bad for Junior Seau, Duerson, Tyler Sash...They couldn't outrun their demons but they didn't take anyone else over the edge with them. I don't feel bad for Hernandez and Lawrence Phillips.

Was Junior Seau having violent, homicidal thoughts prior to his suicide?

It seemed he was severely depressed because he was no longer a star athlete who had a different woman in every city and then had the nice family he could come home to for a short period of time before he left again.

He was becoming a normal person. And normal men have to provide for a family and act like a grown man. He didn't seem to handle it too well according to his family.

I'm not disputing brain trauma and its negative effects but we are not talking about normal people here. And when those very abnormal humans are forced to become regular humans, its probably not all that dissimilar than if you take a regular guy like me and put me in a wheelchair. And if you put me in a wheelchair my initial emotion driven thought would be to kill myself ASAP.
 
Was Junior Seau having violent, homicidal thoughts prior to his suicide?

It seemed he was severely depressed because he was no longer a star athlete who had a different woman in every city and then had the nice family he could come home to for a short period of time before he left again.

He was becoming a normal person. And normal men have to provide for a family and act like a grown man. He didn't seem to handle it too well according to his family.

I'm not disputing brain trauma and its negative effects but we are not talking about normal people here. And when those very abnormal humans are forced to become regular humans, its probably not all that dissimilar than if you take a regular guy like me and put me in a wheelchair. And if you put me in a wheelchair my initial emotion driven thought would be to kill myself ASAP.
I don't remember that. He was becoming more irrational and would fly off the handle with very little provocation, but I don't recall it arising to homicidal thoughts. I could be wrong. He did crash his SUV before, in what in retrospect was a suicide attempt, or at least a cry for help. When he was done with football and his symptoms were getting worse, when he was asked about headaches, he said that he had headaches every day since he was in high school, that was his normal. I don't equate what happened to Seau with Hernandez.
 
Have you heard the story about former Steelers O-Lineman Justin Strzelczyk? I wonder if he had brain trauma?


"HERKIMER, N.Y. -- Justin Strzelczyk, a former player for the
Pittsburgh Steelers, died Thursday in a fiery head-on collision
with a tanker truck after he led state troopers on a 40-mile
highway chase during morning rush hour.

State police identified Strzelczyk , 36, an offensive lineman
with the Steelers for nearly a decade until the team released him
in February 2000.

Troopers said Strzelczyk crashed his pickup truck into the
westbound tanker carrying corrosive acid just moments after
swerving around a tractor-trailer that pulled across the highway to
block the eastbound lanes. Strzelczyk drove 15 miles on three tires
and a rim after one of his pickup's tires was punctured by metal
spikes thrown into the road by troopers.

"It could have been so much worse. We're fortunate that only
one person died," said Trooper Jim Simpson, a state police
spokesman. "It looked like an airplane crash. There was quite a
lot of diesel fuel spilled that was burning. The pickup was almost
unrecognizable."

Strzelczyk, who lived in McCandless, Pa., near Pittsburgh, had
been involved in another minor accident about an hour earlier just
west of Syracuse, which started the bizarre turn of events, Simpson
said.

The hit-and-run occurred about 7:20 a.m. and state police put
out an alert for Strzelczyk's pickup. Troopers spotted him about 40
minutes later still heading east on the Thruway.

A second unit tried to stop the pickup by booby-trapping the
road with the "stop sticks," but Strzelczyk just kept on going.
The pickup was clocked at 88 mph, Simpson said.

"He was going down the road, flipping off the troopers. He even
threw a beer bottle at them," Simpson said.

Toxicology tests by the state police crime lab in Albany could
take a few weeks to complete, Simpson said.

A trucker saw the chase and pulled his rig across the road.
Instead of stopping, the pickup drove across the grass median into
the westbound lanes and traveled about three miles in the wrong
direction before the deadly crash.

The collision with the tanker occurred at about 8:15 a.m. while
the highway was busy with morning commuters and travelers. The
driver of the tanker suffered only minor injuries. No one else was
hurt.

Mary Joyce Strzelczyk, of West Seneca, N.Y., said she suspected her son may have been suffering from an untreated mental or emotional disorder.

"I'm kind of numb right now,'' she told The Buffalo News in Friday's editions. "I had seen trouble with his mood disorders coming."

She said she last saw her son in Pittsburgh last weekend when she went to visit her grandchildren.

The 6-foot-3, 309-pound Strzelczyk, who grew up in a suburb of
Buffalo, was an 11th-round pick in the 1990 draft out of Maine. He
spent nine years with the Steelers and played in the 1995 Super
Bowl.

Strzelczyk was one of the team's most durable players before a
knee injury against Kansas City in October 1998 required
season-ending surgery. He reinjured the knee preparing for training
camp the next season and needed another operation that kept him on
injured reserve for the 1999 season.

In his first eight seasons with Steelers, Strzelczyk missed just
two games, both in 1997. Over his nine-season career with
Pittsburgh, he played in 137 games and started 75.

Nine months after his release by the Steelers, Strzelczyk was
arraigned for illegal possession of a gun. Police said he slammed a
loaded handgun onto a bar in Pittsburgh when discussing the
presidential election with a friend.

Simpson said investigators will try to retrace Strzelczyk's
steps Thursday morning leading up to the chase, to determine what
might have prompted him to flee police and crash his pickup.
Strzelczyk was traveling nearly 90 mph when he collided with a
tanker truck. Troopers said they did not see any brake lights on
the pickup.
"We may never find out what happened or what was going through
his mind," Simpson said."
 
Was Junior Seau having violent, homicidal thoughts prior to his suicide?

It seemed he was severely depressed because he was no longer a star athlete who had a different woman in every city and then had the nice family he could come home to for a short period of time before he left again.

He was becoming a normal person. And normal men have to provide for a family and act like a grown man. He didn't seem to handle it too well according to his family.

I'm not disputing brain trauma and its negative effects but we are not talking about normal people here. And when those very abnormal humans are forced to become regular humans, its probably not all that dissimilar than if you take a regular guy like me and put me in a wheelchair. And if you put me in a wheelchair my initial emotion driven thought would be to kill myself ASAP.
What I'm getting at is the common thread between all of those people was CTE. Hernandez, Belcher, Benoit...they let the outlet be homicidal mania. Seau was known to have suffered anger issues, impulse control problems, and Duerson's family has said they saw some of the same things in him. Hernandez and Belcher murdered people when they got mad and couldn't control their emotions. They chose to do that instead of ending the problem (which was themselves).
 
I think CTE certainly plays a part in much of this but also when looking at professional athletes and in many of these cases "violent sports" it takes a certain type of individual to succeed and they need to be "wired" a little differently to begin with.

On the ESPN college football documentary and they interviewed Urban Meyer. His comment was in the line that in order to play football period you have to be a little special and out of the ordinary and not of the norm in society. It takes someone with a different state of mind to run down the field at 20 mph and slam their body into another person and do that several times a game. It is human nature to be average or just settle for things and these elite athletes position themselves outside the norm just from sports aspect of their lives not including any trauma of other experiences they have at home, school, etc that shape their behavior..

My point is the people that are experiencing these things have many underlying issues that make them unique in society and when combined with CTE, and extreme athletic performance it is showing a trend that it may not be a good combination for some of them.
 
Here's my take on Hernandez...

Some people are born more predisposed to violence and are born more, say, sociopathic. I don't think anyone would argue that. There are kids out there who are probably too soft-hearted and considerate of others, and there are those who don't seem to have any altruistic characteristics and end up cutting kittens' heads off. Like anything in the natural world there's a spectrum.

I think it's fairly obvious that based on people's experiences with Hernandez even before football he was way off to one end. Then add growing up poor, gang experience, lots off money, and a whole lot of CTE and you get a guy who murders people, has zero conscience about it, and is under the delusion that he'll get away with it.

Were hundreds of sub-concussive impacts to the head and probably numerous concussions what pushed him over the edge as far as impulse control? I don't know. It would appear to me that there's a high likelihood of that. Jovan Belcher, Chris Benoit, Aaron Hernandez...all the same story in most ways. But regardless of the cause, there's always a choice if you decide that you can't deal with the world anymore. I'm not an advocate of suicide by any means, but Junior Seau and Dave Duerson decided that they couldn't cope anymore and made a more honorable decision than the three formerly mentioned players. There's a choice. I feel bad for Junior Seau, Duerson, Tyler Sash...They couldn't outrun their demons but they didn't take anyone else over the edge with them. I don't feel bad for Hernandez and Lawrence Phillips.
The thing is Aaron Hernandez did not grow up in poverty he grew up in an affluent area in Connecticut and had a financially stable family. His father was revered as a former star athlete. He really wasn’t born into a gangster lifestyle he just kind of chose to associate with those types of people much later on. As one of the folks in the documentary put it, he was a wannabe gangster.
 
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Was Junior Seau having violent, homicidal thoughts prior to his suicide?

It seemed he was severely depressed because he was no longer a star athlete who had a different woman in every city and then had the nice family he could come home to for a short period of time before he left again.

He was becoming a normal person. And normal men have to provide for a family and act like a grown man. He didn't seem to handle it too well according to his family.

I'm not disputing brain trauma and its negative effects but we are not talking about normal people here. And when those very abnormal humans are forced to become regular humans, its probably not all that dissimilar than if you take a regular guy like me and put me in a wheelchair. And if you put me in a wheelchair my initial emotion driven thought would be to kill myself ASAP.
Wow. From everything I’ve gathered and quotes from those closest to Seau his biggest fear was hurting or burdening those closest to him. He knew he couldn’t control his brain though and feared he might do something. Ultimately he took his own life with a shot to the chest so they could study his brain. Of course he had CTE.

Your characterization is quite frankly appalling.
 
Wow. From everything I’ve gathered and quotes from those closest to Seau his biggest fear was hurting or burdening those closest to him. He knew he couldn’t control his brain though and feared he might do something. Ultimately he took his own life with a shot to the chest so they could study his brain. Of course he had CTE.

Your characterization is quite frankly appalling.

Yeah it probably is pretty appalling. I should probably have more sympathy for a man with his brain injuries.

I watched his 30 for 30 and came away pretty unimpressed by the man. He did a wonderful job of creating a public persona that was charitable and well liked in the community.
 
I think CTE certainly plays a part in much of this but also when looking at professional athletes and in many of these cases "violent sports" it takes a certain type of individual to succeed and they need to be "wired" a little differently to begin with.

On the ESPN college football documentary and they interviewed Urban Meyer. His comment was in the line that in order to play football period you have to be a little special and out of the ordinary and not of the norm in society. It takes someone with a different state of mind to run down the field at 20 mph and slam their body into another person and do that several times a game. It is human nature to be average or just settle for things and these elite athletes position themselves outside the norm just from sports aspect of their lives not including any trauma of other experiences they have at home, school, etc that shape their behavior..

My point is the people that are experiencing these things have many underlying issues that make them unique in society and when combined with CTE, and extreme athletic performance it is showing a trend that it may not be a good combination for some of them.
The term that is frequently used to describe the phenomenon you are referring to is "selection bias," and it's an important factor when analyzing almost any statistic.

It's quite possible that professional sports inherently selects for individuals that have certain brain characteristics to begin with, and that those same characteristics may be a factor in the development of CTE, or other maladjustment issues that arise later.

From a legal standpoint, this could become a slippery slope real fast. What will eventually happen is that a defense attorney will successfully argue that the presence of CTE supersedes legal definitions of individual culpability - that the defendant is incapable of rational thought and therefore cannot be held accountable for actions that result in harm.

Is that appropriate? Perhaps or perhaps not, but either way you can bet that the precedent (once set) will be used as standard boiler plate whenever a former athlete is charged with a felony.
 
I just finished watching the Hernandez special. Seems logical to me, that all potential recruits should have to undergo CTE testing before they can be allowed to play collegiate football. Once they are in school, they should have to go through the same tests on a yearly basis. The NFL should monitor these results before drafting players and continue to go through with their own tests during a players career. If at anytime along the way the tests show something abnormal, they are done. Insurance companies can come up with a CTE insurance benefits program to help the players after diagnosis.

That may be difficult because there is not a test to determine if someone has CTE. Because CTE is a relatively new area of exploration for researchers and physicians, formal clinical guidelines for diagnosing and managing CTE do not yet exist. A definitive diagnosis can only be made through an autopsy after death.
 
That may be difficult because there is not a test to determine if someone has CTE. Because CTE is a relatively new area of exploration for researchers and physicians, formal clinical guidelines for diagnosing and managing CTE do not yet exist. A definitive diagnosis can only be made through an autopsy after death.
I have read a few places that there are genetic markers that show people who are more susceptible, and that's one of the things they are focusing on. The debate at the time was whether it would be fair for the NFL (or others) to take a blood test of say, an incoming rookie, and tell that guy, "Sorry, you can't play because you show a high vulnerability to CTE."

I'm sure that research is a ways off in the future, but as advanced as medicine is in 2020 I have to think that it wouldn't be long before they either have a definitive test for it or can establish someone's predisposition.
 

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