Morehouse brings up a good point...

SpiderRico

Well-Known Member
...which is another reason this whole GD experiment is a complete disaster. He mentioned (on KXNO) that one of the things in KFs press conference on Tuesday that was pretty telling to him was when KF talked about a specific time in the ISU game where JR held the ball too long on a pass play because the receiver didn't go to the area that JR thought he was going to be. That, to me, is the whole freaking problem with this BS offense. I can't understand, for the life of me, why you would have an offense that asks college receivers AND college QBs at Iowa (most of which won't sniff the NFL), to BOTH read the defense and have the route be dictated by what the defense is doing. So instead of designing plays and schemes to attack different defenses...essentially putting the onus on the OC to design and call the right plays, you call a play that has multiple route options and then sit back and depend on 18-22 amateurs to read the defense and have both the QB AND the receiver on the same page. Talk about a recipe for disaster...which is exactly what we've seen in the last 3 years.

It would seem a lot more productive, to me anyway, to have receivers use their natural speed and athletic ability to run pre-designed routes so they don't have to think about what they are doing and just have the QB responsible for reading the defense and reading specific keys (i.e. safety dropping or cheating, corners in press coverage or zone, linebackers blitzing, etc) and then choose the route on that particular play that should be open.

In fact, our strategy in our pass offense is the exact antithesis of our defensive philosophy. Norm (and now Phil) have always talked about using primarily a simple, base defense so that the players don't have to think....they can just play. A thinking athlete is a slower, less reactive athlete.

Now that I've heard some of this and applying that to what I'm seeing on the field.....I think that is 95% of the issue. Look at all of the times that JR has hesitated in the pocket instead of just letting it go....I guarantee you its because he expected, for example, the receiver to "sit", but he kept going (or vice versa).

Bottom line....this offense just blows!
 
If this is the case then: a) why did KF hire GD in the first place? , b) why is GD still here? If this is not the case then: a) sounds like a coach throwing another coach under the bus, or b) sounds like a coach making excuses.

No matter what, KF needs to fix things. Like, yesterday.
 
So communicate with hand signals before the play, and check with the sideline before the play. Remember your option routes. Some HS teams do this -- it ain't that hard.
 
What happened to the big poster signs held up on the sidelines with obscure objects and people on them, ala what Oregon uses? However that system works, it got the players thinking the same "reads". Didn't we try, or indicate that we were going to try, something similar in the past year or so?
 
...which is another reason this whole GD experiment is a complete disaster. He mentioned (on KXNO) that one of the things in KFs press conference on Tuesday that was pretty telling to him was when KF talked about a specific time in the ISU game where JR held the ball too long on a pass play because the receiver didn't go to the area that JR thought he was going to be. That, to me, is the whole freaking problem with this BS offense. I can't understand, for the life of me, why you would have an offense that asks college receivers AND college QBs at Iowa (most of which won't sniff the NFL), to BOTH read the defense and have the route be dictated by what the defense is doing. So instead of designing plays and schemes to attack different defenses...essentially putting the onus on the OC to design and call the right plays, you call a play that has multiple route options and then sit back and depend on 18-22 amateurs to read the defense and have both the QB AND the receiver on the same page. Talk about a recipe for disaster...which is exactly what we've seen in the last 3 years.

It would seem a lot more productive, to me anyway, to have receivers use their natural speed and athletic ability to run pre-designed routes so they don't have to think about what they are doing and just have the QB responsible for reading the defense and reading specific keys (i.e. safety dropping or cheating, corners in press coverage or zone, linebackers blitzing, etc) and then choose the route on that particular play that should be open.

In fact, our strategy in our pass offense is the exact antithesis of our defensive philosophy. Norm (and now Phil) have always talked about using primarily a simple, base defense so that the players don't have to think....they can just play. A thinking athlete is a slower, less reactive athlete.

Now that I've heard some of this and applying that to what I'm seeing on the field.....I think that is 95% of the issue. Look at all of the times that JR has hesitated in the pocket instead of just letting it go....I guarantee you its because he expected, for example, the receiver to "sit", but he kept going (or vice versa).

Bottom line....this offense just blows!

THANK YOU.

I posted that this was precisely the problem in 2012 when everyone was piling on JVB and everyone jumped on me claiming I was trolling because this board is populated with idiots who know virtually nothing about football. The degradation in JVB's game between 2011 and 2012 was the result of this offensive system, which is simply too complicated for college kids to execute. If you go to the game and watch the receivers, the system doesn't look bad because guys get wide open in the secondary, but if the QB has no idea where to put the rock that is completely irrelevant. The system is very complex and isn't awful, but to have the players execute it with limited practice time is honestly going to take a miracle, which makes it a very bad system for us. We simply don't have the margin of error in terms of execution that this system requires and I think we would need a very special QB to make it work.

Here is my post from 2012:

Guys, everyone is thrashing this kid but he ain't that bad. Watch the film from last year. Watch that Pitt game. Kid is a legit QB but our coaching staff has completely hermaphroditized the poor kid and Davis has got him and the receivers making independent reads at the line and it is an unmitigated disaster. Sure, the dude has had a tendency to lock on and it seems to have gotten worse this year, but I think it is because he has no idea what his receivers are going to do because Davis is such a freaking moron and has everyone making their own read at the line. Sorry, but this ain't Peyton Manning tossing the rock to Stokely, Clark, Harrison and Wayne. It is the most complicated "simple" offense ever. If I hear one of you proles booing that kid tomorrow, get ready for haymakers.

http://hawkeyenation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51940
 
IMO, Rudock doesn't have enough confidence to throw the lower completion percentage pass. So, either
(1) Beathard, who has more confidence, is the QB or
(2) More conservative pass plays are run - Davis could still keep his job if he changes playcalling or
(3) Another OC with a more conservative offense is hired.

It doesn't help Rudock that the no interception mantra has been ingrained.
 
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This thread is seriously on point and makes so much damn sense !

Sadly, the OC and/or HC either don't see it or are too stubborn to change.

OP...and OK4P(circa 2012)...well done.

Its so sad that the data is more and more clearly showing this is actually becoming more of an issue of X's and O's than Jimmy and Joes, which makes it all the more frustrating.
 
I am sure that it is common for offenses to have multiple reads on pass plays. The receivers will run routes based on reading the secondary. I doubt its hard to do. Mistakes will happen, but that happens to everyone.
 
So, would CJ eventually crumble under this system to once he got "coached up" by Davis and has a few starts under his belt? It does seem most Iowa QBs get worse the longer they stay at Iowa (that also goes back to KOK).
 
So, would CJ eventually crumble under this system to once he got "coached up" by Davis and has a few starts under his belt? It does seem most Iowa QBs get worse the longer they stay at Iowa (that also goes back to KOK).

CJ doesn't always listen to the coaches seems like, so he's got that going for him, but it might also be why he's on the bench. It's a catch 22.
 
I am sure that it is common for offenses to have multiple reads on pass plays. The receivers will run routes based on reading the secondary. I doubt its hard to do. Mistakes will happen, but that happens to everyone.

It is not hard, but you have to think like a guy who has been hit in the head a few too many times. O'Keefe was able to do that, Davis is not able to do it and the offense is just too complicated. This is two QBs in a row who are just completely lost out there. Again, JVB went from a 25 TD guy in 2011 to a 7 TD guy in 2012. When you go from averaging 2 TD passes per game to averaging 1 TD pass every 2 games, your team is gonna stink, which we did in 2012. We're on pace to be pretty bad in 2014, too.
 
So, would CJ eventually crumble under this system to once he got "coached up" by Davis and has a few starts under his belt? It does seem most Iowa QBs get worse the longer they stay at Iowa (that also goes back to KOK).

Stanzi was fine in 2010, it's just that the defense dropped a lot. Tate got way better in 2005, but again we turned over the line and the defense stunk. Tate was fairly bad in 2006, but he was hurt most of the year, but he was ready for Texas in the bowl game. JVB was a 25 TD/7 INT guy in 2011, which is pretty good for a first year starter in the Big Ten. O'Keefe was actually a pretty decent QB coach.
 
This thread is seriously on point and makes so much damn sense !

Sadly, the OC and/or HC either don't see it or are too stubborn to change.

OP...and OK4P(circa 2012)...well done.

Its so sad that the data is more and more clearly showing this is actually becoming more of an issue of X's and O's than Jimmy and Joes, which makes it all the more frustrating.

We didn't get out Jimmy and Joe'd by Ball State (a game we very nearly lost) or Iowa State. We don't have OSU caliber talent, but we're not awful, either. O'Keefe rolled up 40+ every time he lined up against Ball State. Indiana State rolled up 27 on Ball State. We have a serious, serious systematic issue. Now maybe we'll have a team that gels a bit and we are able to roll out some semblance of an offense as the weather gets cooler, but I'm more worried now than I have been at any other point of the Ferentz tenure.
 
The argument (of scheme) is plausible but doesn't explain the sudden ability to "turn" on the jets against BSU. And last season's offense wasn't as shittyly anemic either.

It is possible that the issue is getting more of the "right" receivers and RBs on the field. Put Smith, Willies, Powell, Canzeri, and Weisman on the field at the same time. Once preseason ends, which KF probably uses as extended practice/evaluation sessions, and the "games that matter" (in KF's head) begin, it will be easier to make a real read...Of course, this means that the Pitt game could be a write-off.
 
We didn't get out Jimmy and Joe'd by Ball State (a game we very nearly lost) or Iowa State. We don't have OSU caliber talent, but we're not awful, either. O'Keefe rolled up 40+ every time he lined up against Ball State. Indiana State rolled up 27 on Ball State. We have a serious, serious systematic issue. Now maybe we'll have a team that gels a bit and we are able to roll out some semblance of an offense as the weather gets cooler, but I'm more worried now than I have been at any other point of the Ferentz tenure.

Yep. I am very very worried.
 
This is why Shimonek left. Basically said the offense was too hard to learn(or at least harder than what he was used to).
 
One way a receiver can adjust a pass route (if there's pressure on the QB, for example) is to cut the pattern short. It's called breaking off the route. It's done all the time after high school. A QB can throw into a safe area where there's no defender and if the receiver doesn't adjust accordingly, it's incomplete.

There are other ways to pass to an open receiver. All which Rudock seems incapable of doing. Back shoulder throws. Putting more air under the ball. Putting more zip on the ball.
 
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...which is another reason this whole GD experiment is a complete disaster. He mentioned (on KXNO) that one of the things in KFs press conference on Tuesday that was pretty telling to him was when KF talked about a specific time in the ISU game where JR held the ball too long on a pass play because the receiver didn't go to the area that JR thought he was going to be. That, to me, is the whole freaking problem with this BS offense. I can't understand, for the life of me, why you would have an offense that asks college receivers AND college QBs at Iowa (most of which won't sniff the NFL), to BOTH read the defense and have the route be dictated by what the defense is doing. So instead of designing plays and schemes to attack different defenses...essentially putting the onus on the OC to design and call the right plays, you call a play that has multiple route options and then sit back and depend on 18-22 amateurs to read the defense and have both the QB AND the receiver on the same page. Talk about a recipe for disaster...which is exactly what we've seen in the last 3 years.

It would seem a lot more productive, to me anyway, to have receivers use their natural speed and athletic ability to run pre-designed routes so they don't have to think about what they are doing and just have the QB responsible for reading the defense and reading specific keys (i.e. safety dropping or cheating, corners in press coverage or zone, linebackers blitzing, etc) and then choose the route on that particular play that should be open.

In fact, our strategy in our pass offense is the exact antithesis of our defensive philosophy. Norm (and now Phil) have always talked about using primarily a simple, base defense so that the players don't have to think....they can just play. A thinking athlete is a slower, less reactive athlete.

Now that I've heard some of this and applying that to what I'm seeing on the field.....I think that is 95% of the issue. Look at all of the times that JR has hesitated in the pocket instead of just letting it go....I guarantee you its because he expected, for example, the receiver to "sit", but he kept going (or vice versa).

Bottom line....this offense just blows!

God forbid WRs should learn a few basic assignments.

A WR that can't read a defense, or isn't asked to, will be a crappy downfield blocker. There goes the run game...
 
IMO, Rudock doesn't have enough confidence to throw the lower completion percentage pass. So, either
(1) Beathard, who has more confidence, is the QB or
(2) More conservative pass plays are run - Davis could still keep his job if he changes playcalling or
(3) Another OC with a more conservative offense is hired.

It doesn't help Rudock that the no interception mantra has been ingrained.

<<IMO>>

You DO realize what your "opinion" is worth, no?

Did you even READ the previous posts? The problem has nothing to with Rudock. Get Beathard's crank out of your mouht, you drooling moron!
 

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