Monday Musings in Hawkeye Nation

In a little bit of defense of Caitlin (she did deserve the T by where her hand went), how does the WNBA allow so much contact and holding from the defender but hardly any push back is allowed from the offensive player? It's like the complete opposite of the NFL.
 
Clark is starting to figure it out. Once she learns to shoot the open 5-ft floater in the lane when she penetrates -- as opposed to trying to force a bounce pass to get Boston or Smith a 2-ft layup which more than 50% of the time ends up as a turnover -- she'll raise her scoring average above 20 pts a game.
 
Hawkboys said:
In a little bit of defense of Caitlin (she did deserve the T by where her hand went), how does the WNBA allow so much contact and holding from the defender but hardly any push back is allowed from the offensive player? It's like the complete opposite of the NFL.
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I will say this. Having watched almost no WNBA games before this season, I have caught over half of the Fever games and even watched parts of non-Fever games. Here is what I appreciate: there are basketball fundamentals. As CC is learning, these ladies can ball and they play D. They run offenses and they are physical. Juxtapose that with the regular season NBA where defense is optional and its just a giant 1-1 an d 3-point shooting contest. Watching these WNBA games is far more enjoyable than I thought.

CC has adjusted her game to the more physical style of play and she is learning to play with other great players. At Iowa, she had to shoulder the load on offense. At Indiana, she has other great players and she is demonstrating what a great distributor she is. She is such a competitor.

The Fever look NIGHT AND DAY from the first 10 games.
 
Grady said:
Clark is starting to figure it out. Once she learns to shoot the open 5-ft floater in the lane when she penetrates -- as opposed to trying to force a bounce pass to get Boston or Smith a 2-ft layup which more than 50% of the time ends up as a turnover -- she'll raise her scoring average above 20 pts a game.
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The only people who should be happier about CC existing other than Boston are the TV and WNBA execs. CC is turning Boston into a potential All-Star. That connection is going to be deadly for years to come. Now about that defense......
 
NorthKCHawk said:
I will say this. Having watched almost no WNBA games before this season, I have caught over half of the Fever games and even watched parts of non-Fever games. Here is what I appreciate: there are basketball fundamentals. As CC is learning, these ladies can ball and they play D. They run offenses and they are physical. Juxtapose that with the regular season NBA where defense is optional and its just a giant 1-1 an d 3-point shooting contest. Watching these WNBA games is far more enjoyable than I thought.

CC has adjusted her game to the more physical style of play and she is learning to play with other great players. At Iowa, she had to shoulder the load on offense. At Indiana, she has other great players and she is demonstrating what a great distributor she is. She is such a competitor.

The Fever look NIGHT AND DAY from the first 10 games.
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I agree with most of this but I will push back on the "no defense in the NBA" stuff that we hear all the time. You did say regular season and for the most part, that is correct. But the shooters, combined with the athleticism of some of players to drive to the hoop, make it very difficult to defend in today's NBA.

In the playoffs, teams generally do play pretty good D, at least they give more effort. And that is where the real skill shows up. I'm not saying it makes it enjoyable for everyone but even when the defenses are good some teams are tough to defend against.
 
haydensly said:
I agree with most of this but I will push back on the "no defense in the NBA" stuff that we hear all the time. You did say regular season and for the most part, that is correct. But the shooters, combined with the athleticism of some of players to drive to the hoop, make it very difficult to defend in today's NBA.

In the playoffs, teams generally do play pretty good D, at least they give more effort. And that is where the real skill shows up. I'm not saying it makes it enjoyable for everyone but even when the defenses are good some teams are tough to defend against.
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The only thing more unwatchable than a regular season February NBA game on a Wednesday night is the NBA Allstar game. No defense and the offense is MEBall.

IMHO, the NBA season is too long and has too many games. 80+ games in the regular season flying all over the country is too much for these giants. And the playoffs last for months. I don't blame these guys for taking nights off and not playing hard every night. Its a brutal schedule. Much like MLB, the NBA would do itself a favor by cutting down on the quantity of BB and trading that for better quality.

I don't watch much regular season NBA and its hard to be invested in the playoffs unless my team is in it. I used to be a huge NBA fan, but they have lost me. WBNA is pulling me in.
 
The NBA and MLB both lost me around 10 years ago. It was kind of a gradual fade and I didn't really think about it until recently. In retrospect, I think the impetus was the frequent player movement. It may be "old school" to a degree, but I much prefer to follow a "team" over time and watch it develop. The constant shifting of players makes that almost impossible.

With the current state of NIL and the presence of the portal, I'm hoping that I can keep my interest going in the college game. Sadly, that could end up being wishful thinking.
 
Actually, Caitlin was attempting to push her opponents arm away from her body

She absolutely and certainly did NOT intend to Poke the Punk in the eye

The incident simply gives the nasty trolls an opportunity to cast shadow her way
 
haydensly said:
I agree with most of this but I will push back on the "no defense in the NBA" stuff that we hear all the time. You did say regular season and for the most part, that is correct. But the shooters, combined with the athleticism of some of players to drive to the hoop, make it very difficult to defend in today's NBA.

In the playoffs, teams generally do play pretty good D, at least they give more effort. And that is where the real skill shows up. I'm not saying it makes it enjoyable for everyone but even when the defenses are good some teams are tough to defend against.
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People who are casual viewers don’t appreciate how much of an advantage offenses have and how much 3 pointers have altered the game.

Even great defenses will do everything right and still get burned.
 
thedukeofearl said:
Actually, Caitlin was attempting to push her opponents arm away from her body

She absolutely and certainly did NOT intend to Poke the Punk in the eye

The incident simply gives the nasty trolls an opportunity to cast shadow her way
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True, but by the rules she absolutely deserved the T. She purposely pushed her away after being held, but made contact with her face. She did not mean to hit her in the face, but she meant to push her. Clear T.
 
haydensly said:
I agree with most of this but I will push back on the "no defense in the NBA" stuff that we hear all the time. You did say regular season and for the most part, that is correct. But the shooters, combined with the athleticism of some of players to drive to the hoop, make it very difficult to defend in today's NBA.

In the playoffs, teams generally do play pretty good D, at least they give more effort. And that is where the real skill shows up. I'm not saying it makes it enjoyable for everyone but even when the defenses are good some teams are tough to defend against.
Click to expand...

It is very common to see great college scorers who can barely get a shot off in the NBA. It is impossible to defend with great intensity every night across 82 games, but when they get in the playoffs, these guys defend their asses off. The scouting is so advanced, and they know tendencies so well throughout the course of a 7 game series, that fact that anyone can score is a testament to their offensive brilliance.

It should also be noted that the NBA worked very diligently with their officials to give offensive players advantage. Back in the 90s, defenders were allowed to grab and check and impede movement all over the court, which led to a very ugly game. It was competitive and hard-nosed, but it was ugly. The league was very clear with officials that this was not the game they wanted, and that has resulted in the proliferation of offense (along with the rise of the 3 pointer). The WNBA is currently like 90s NBA, and it will be interesting to see if they mandate a change in officiatiing to help capitalize on generational stars like Clark, JuJu, Bueckers, etc.
 
CP87 said:
It is very common to see great college scorers who can barely get a shot off in the NBA. It is impossible to defend with great intensity every night across 82 games, but when they get in the playoffs, these guys defend their asses off. The scouting is so advanced, and they know tendencies so well throughout the course of a 7 game series, that fact that anyone can score is a testament to their offensive brilliance.

It should also be noted that the NBA worked very diligently with their officials to give offensive players advantage. Back in the 90s, defenders were allowed to grab and check and impede movement all over the court, which led to a very ugly game. It was competitive and hard-nosed, but it was ugly. The league was very clear with officials that this was not the game they wanted, and that has resulted in the proliferation of offense (along with the rise of the 3 pointer). The WNBA is currently like 90s NBA, and it will be interesting to see if they mandate a change in officiatiing to help capitalize on generational stars like Clark, JuJu, Bueckers, etc.
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This. I've had the exact same thought about the WNBA looking like the '90s NBA. I think the word went out already to WNBA officials as this season has gone on; the last few WNBA games I've watched have looked nothing like the rugby matches I saw at the beginning of the season.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
True, but by the rules she absolutely deserved the T. She purposely pushed her away after being held, but made contact with her face. She did not mean to hit her in the face, but she meant to push her. Clear T.
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Catilin was Obviously in the wrong and she deserves all the mugging she receives throughout
every game, she certainly deserves suspension for her Thuglike behavior on display each and
every game

Every time she gets knocked to the floor, she should get a technical

Rules are rules and they are always called and she deserves each and every one


I am surprised that Caitlin doesn't foul out of every game in the first quarter

Thanks for your opinion, always appreciated

Your Best Friend, Duke

:cool:
 
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Good job and good decision Brody for concentrating on baseball.

The millions you'll earn supports your decision.
 
thedukeofearl said:
Catilin was Obviously in the wrong and she deserves all the mugging she receives throughout
every game, she certainly deserves suspension for her Thuglike behavior on display each and
every game

Every time she gets knocked to the floor, she should get a technical

Rules are rules and they are always called and she deserves each and every one


I am surprised that Caitlin doesn't foul out of every game in the first quarter

Thanks for your opinion, always appreciated

Your Best Friend, Duke

:cool:
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Whatever. The hyperbolic trolls related to CC go both ways. Her fans think she is mugged and beaten every night and she never gets a call. Her detractors think she is the league darling with the fix in so that she gets all the breaks from the refs.

The truth is definitely in the middle. Reffing high level basketball is about the toughest damn thing there is to do in sports officiating. Its so fluid and fast moving. I am also guessing that WNBA refs are not the highest paid officials in sports. I have watched a lot of CC's games and I think the refs are doing a reasonably good job of balancing physicality with freedom of movement. There is just more physical play allowed at the professional level, and CC struggled a bit at first to that, but has adjusted her game nicely. Bad calls related to CC seem to flow both ways if you are actually objective.

Agree or disagree, she deserved the tech that she got under the rules. Whether you want to make this something bigger than that is up to you.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
Whatever. The hyperbolic trolls related to CC go both ways. Her fans think she is mugged and beaten every night and she never gets a call. Her detractors think she is the league darling with the fix in so that she gets all the breaks from the refs.
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The Caitlin Clark superfans are causing her as much off-court headache as anyone. The over-the-top fawning fuels some of the jealousy, and a non-neglible portion of those "fans" seem more intent on trashing everything WNBA than they do in supporting Clark. Then she has to deal with the mess left behind by the ensuing social media shit storm.

If you claim to be a Clark fan, yet you spend substantial time trying to tear down other players on her team, or the league within which she competes, you might want to put some thought into what your actual motivations are.
 
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