McCaffreys first 6+ years vs Ferentz first 6

L

longtimer

Well-Known Member
Preface it to say both programs were on the bottom. Ferentz had to follow a legend and McCaffrey a less than legend. Also it should be noted that its easier to turn a basketball program than it is a football.
McCaffrey has been to a couple of tournaments (and a "play in game") won a couple and then got beaten badly. Really has taken Iowa to a level of "upper" mediocrity last year
Ferentz in his first 6 years was coach of the year 2 times (including national 1 year), won 2 Big ten titles and 3 of 4 bowl games
Why bring this up? First what are the standards you hold coaches? Win Titles? Go to Bowl games? Make the tournament? Get to the final 4?
Most of us feel its time for Ferentz to maybe retire or at least revamp his thinking and coaching staff. Hawks had a good year but they seem to be stuck in the past. McCaffrey seems to get more passes. This is his seventh year and it really doesnt look good. Some think we have a lot of "young" talent. Im really not so sure. I think we have some good athletes but not necessarily basketball athletes. Hope I am wrong but this has all the signs of a second division team in Fran's 7th year. Hope Im wrong again but I really dont see us being better next year. How many years do you give a coach to reach some of the standards we expect?
 
It's funny, watching that game last night just shows you just how far away from a top tier program we are. I know it's early and our team is young, but it's Fran's job to ensure he has continuity of performance year to year...and in year 7 you would think we would be closer than this. I know he's brought in some talent, but we are no where near the top 20 in year seven. I wish I could then point to the fact that Fran's teams always play their best basketball down the stretch, but that's not true also...last year, Marble's last year, the complete blowouts in the tourney in round two.

That was just awful defense last night. I get the issues on the offensive side, but giving up lay ups and dunks and losing people completely in transition is poor coaching...plain and simple. I'm sure Fran felt that playing man forces his guys to improve and gets them work against a good team in that defense...but when it gets embarrassing, you may want to switch to a match up zone and keep everything in front of you. I mean the decision was either give up layups and dunks or force them to shoot threes...I thought Virginia would shoot a higher percentage dunking...I guess Fran didn't.

The OP is right, Fran gets a pass because he resurrected us from the junk yard. Kirk Ferentz wears every loss and coaching decision with our fan base in my opinion. Watching KF's teams compete EVERY week, makes me appreciate him even more than i did. The Michigan game reminded me of what he means to his players as to a man, they stepped up and played with emotion and effort...and it's carried through to the end of the season with a throttling of our brothers in Corn to the west. Let's see how Fran's guys react today.
 
Most big time contributors to Hawkeye athletics have high expectations for the Football team. However, so long as basketball season ticket sales don't take a big drop and Fran's teams make the NCAA tournament every other year or so, Fran will be able to retire here. Most of the posters on HN expect a lot more, but "it is what it is". Remember, the last time Iowa was in the final four was 79-80. Lute Olson was the last coach to win the Conference title in 78-79.

Another key factor is the broad appreciation of Fran's coaching style. Win or lose, Fran's teams are a LOT more fun to watch than Todd Lickliter's teams. This season will probably be a real roller coaster ride. It could be as bad as 7-6 non-conference and 4-14 conference or as good as 10-3 and 8-10 with an NIT appearance. This will depend on how the new players progress. If it's bad, then 17-18 ticket sales will drop off and pressure will mount.
 
MWS604 said:
Most big time contributors to Hawkeye athletics have high expectations for the Football team. However, so long as basketball season ticket sales don't take a big drop and Fran's teams make the NCAA tournament every other year or so, Fran will be able to retire here. Most of the posters on HN expect a lot more, but "it is what it is". Remember, the last time Iowa was in the final four was 79-80. Lute Olson was the last coach to win the Conference title in 78-79.

Another key factor is the broad appreciation of Fran's coaching style. Win or lose, Fran's teams are a LOT more fun to watch than Todd Lickliter's teams. This season will probably be a real roller coaster ride. It could be as bad as 7-6 non-conference and 4-14 conference or as good as 10-3 and 8-10 with an NIT appearance. This will depend on how the new players progress. If it's bad, then 17-18 ticket sales will drop off and pressure will mount.
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Yesterday was an exception for hawks always being fun to watch under fran. That was painful.
 
smhawk said:
Yesterday was an exception for hawks always being fun to watch under fran. That was painful.
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Agreed. It is likely that we will be in for some more pain this year against teams that concentrate on defense such MSU & WI.
 
I remember White's senior year in the non conference. We looked like we might not win a Big 10 game that year then went 12-6. I highly doubt that happens this year, but I highly doubted it would happen that year either. Playing a top 10 team was always going to be a bad matchup. But playing a top 10 team that has the number 1 defense in the nation was a brutal matchup.

Also people always talk about once you are this far into your coaching tenure, drops like this shouldn't happen. That's just not true. A coach's tenure will always be a roller coaster no matter who he is. The only difference is how high the highs are and how low the lows are.
 
Didn't box out. Poor help defense-poor individual defense leading the layups, dunks and wide-open 3s. Dumb turnovers. Worst game fundamentals-wise I've seen in the Fran era.

This team has more talent than any of Lick's teams but I think even Lickliter's teams had better basketball fundamentals than the team I saw last night.
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
Didn't box out. Poor help defense-poor individual defense leading the layups, dunks and wide-open 3s. Dumb turnovers. Worst game fundamentals-wise I've seen in the Fran era.

This team has more talent than any of Lick's teams but I think even Lickliter's teams had better basketball fundamentals than the team I saw last night.
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We got destroyed by Camble one year.
 
I'd like to get to the point where playing a top 10 team is NEVER a bad matchup. It's pretty clear that Fran isn't the coach to get us there.
 
lightning1 said:
I'd like to get to the point where playing a top 10 team is NEVER a bad matchup. It's pretty clear that Fran isn't the coach to get us there.
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That will never happen with any coach at any program. The year Kentucky went to the NIT, they had plentry of bad match up teams. Kentucky this year was a horrible matchup for Izzo and MSU.
 
Very few programs can reload and be elite year in and year out. Hawks lost a lot from last year and think this is a rude awakening for some folks who thought the team wouldn't miss a beat.. That we'd be better off without Woody, etc. I never bought into that notion. It doesn't mean the team won't improve through the year but I think we should all prepare ourselves for a down year.. NIT at best. I don't feel the talent level is as great as some think it is, coupled with inexperience in some spots..

Let's not crucify Fran for having an off year. Rebuilding years are reality for nearly all programs. If they're still struggling a couple years from now, then it's fair game IMO.

That said, I'd like to see certain things change, like not melting down in February, being able to land a quality PG, show up for the big ten tournament, etc.

Overall Fran has done a good job here but am not convinced he hasn't already taken us to as high a level as he can or that he'll ever get us to heights that KF did in the early 2000's, 2009, etc.

I've had to take off the Rose colored glasses and look at things objectively. Just my 2 cents.
 
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PCHawk said:
I remember White's senior year in the non conference. We looked like we might not win a Big 10 game that year then went 12-6. I highly doubt that happens this year, but I highly doubted it would happen that year either. Playing a top 10 team was always going to be a bad matchup. But playing a top 10 team that has the number 1 defense in the nation was a brutal matchup.

Also people always talk about once you are this far into your coaching tenure, drops like this shouldn't happen. That's just not true. A coach's tenure will always be a roller coaster no matter who he is. The only difference is how high the highs are and how low the lows are.
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Look at all the top 10-15 basketball programs that maintain their coaching staffs. You don't see them getting humiliated like that. Fran should be embarrassed. Honestly, they looked like a junior high team playing the varsity. It was that bad. I didn't think they wouldn't miss a beat...but these guys call themselves athletes at a high level. You can play defense with energy and grit...and fight for everything. I expected us to have trouble offensively...I was shocked at how inept we looked defensively and especially defending at the rim. Make someone earn them at the free throw line with a hard foul...don't just give them lay ups and dunks. That's what pissed me off. That was the worst rotation/help defense I've ever seen.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Look at all the top 10-15 basketball programs that maintain their coaching staffs. You don't see them getting humiliated like that. Fran should be embarrassed. Honestly, they looked like a junior high team playing the varsity. It was that bad. I didn't think they wouldn't miss a beat...but these guys call themselves athletes at a high level. You can play defense with energy and grit...and fight for everything. I expected us to have trouble offensively...I was shocked at how inept we looked defensively and especially defending at the rim. Make someone earn them at the free throw line with a hard foul...don't just give them lay ups and dunks. That's what pissed me off. That was the worst rotation/help defense I've ever seen.
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Actually, you do see them get humiliated sometimes. It just doesn't happen as often because they are the top programs. When one team gets hot on the same day as the other is cold, a blowout insues. It happens all the time in basketball. Iowa did it in East Lansing last year. I do agree that interior defense was God awful tho. If that gets better fast, we can still make the tourney. if it doesn't get better, we won't make the NIT.
 
I am a little nervous tho that maybe the young guys really aren't that good. Where does that leave us without Jok? Then the other part of me thinks, what if Garza is a better version of Woody, Nunge is a Uthoff, and Cook ends up the best 4 Fran has had. Maybe Connor and Weiscamp come in and we win the Big 10 in a couple years.
 
I'm not saying we should be a perennial top 10 team. I want to get to the point where we can play top 10 teams and not get blown out. That's not asking for too much.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
Very few programs can reload and be elite year in and year out. Hawks lost a lot from last year and think this is a rude awakening for some folks who thought the team wouldn't miss a beat.. That we'd be better off without Woody, etc. I never bought into that notion. It doesn't mean the team won't improve through the year but I think we should all prepare ourselves for a down year.. NIT at best. I don't feel the talent level is as great as some think it is, coupled with inexperience in some spots..

Let's not crucify Fran for having an off year. Rebuilding years are reality for nearly all programs. If they're still struggling a couple years from now, then it's fair game IMO.

That said, I'd like to see certain things change, like not melting down in February, being able to land a quality PG, show up for the big ten tournament, etc.

Overall Fran has done a good job here but am not convinced he hasn't already taken us to as high a level as he can or that he'll ever get us to heights that KF did in the early 2000's, 2009, etc.

I've had to take off the Rose colored glasses and look at things objectively. Just my 2 cents.
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Well said as many of your comments matched up with how I feel about how Fran has done. Much better than Lickliter but now at a point where we should be better than we are. The point guard situation is really a stickler for Fran and as one poster stated it could be the death of Fran. I simply don't get it. Fran's style of offense should attract explosive guards. They would thrive in Iowa's type of offense. A couple of explosive guards and a power guy at the post and Fran is on his way. Cook could end up being that offensive power guy but we also need a rim defender who can rebound and especially block shots.

What we saw with this last game is more of what I was concerned with. Sure it was a top ten team but you don't build a successful program by planning on playing middle of the road teams in the pre-season. These are exactly the type of games that Fran needs to gauge where his weaknesses are and where he needs to improve recruiting.
 
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