KF, BF and Future

[dualradius]

Posted first time in a while in another thread. Haven’t posted in awhile.

Thought interesting topic.

Went to a game this year. Watch most games on tv.

The truth is that KF is all class. Represents university very well. Done some great things.

Develops talent like a machine! Players well coached.

Very vanilla system that allows Iowa to thrive as underdogs, and lose way too often when the more talented team.

Defensively this is okay, but offensively it kills Iowa.

Never open things up. Rarely throw over top. Never stretch field. Never audible to pass. Opponents can collapse in box.

Then on top of that we have zero five star recruits or speed. Never recruited it, and he never will. Can get away with it at non skill positions because you can teach and develop everything but speed.

Excuse is that he’s at Iowa. That’s garbage.

In any case, KF will never consistently compete for top of big 10 or national title. Neither will his kid.

Here’s the question: is that acceptable to you if he does like his father? Will university continue to accept that? They have for almost 20 years.

 

[BVHawk95]

Posted first time in a while in another thread. Haven’t posted in awhile.

Thought interesting topic.

Went to a game this year. Watch most games on tv.

The truth is that KF is all class. Represents university very well. Done some great things.

Develops talent like a machine! Players well coached.

Very vanilla system that allows Iowa to thrive as underdogs, and lose way too often when the more talented team.

Defensively this is okay, but offensively it kills Iowa.

Never open things up. Rarely throw over top. Never stretch field. Never audible to pass. Opponents can collapse in box.

Then on top of that we have zero five star recruits or speed. Never recruited it, and he never will. Can get away with it at non skill positions because you can teach and develop everything but speed.

Excuse is that he’s at Iowa. That’s garbage.

In any case, KF will never consistently compete for top of big 10 or national title. Neither will his kid.

Here’s the question: is that acceptable to you if he does like his father? Will university continue to accept that? They have for almost 20 years.

You keep throwing around the word speed. What about guys like Damond Powell? He certainly had speed, but he was an awful route runner. Riley McCarron ran a 4.3. That's definitely speedy, but a 5'9" receiver is not going to dominate a game like we'd hope. Wadley is likely going to run a 4.4 or lower, is that not speedy? He's head and shoulder above the other guys, but a multitude of issues on offense this year limited him.

You're not wrong in some of your offensive concerns, but the speed is not completely lacking like some believe. Tevaun Smith definitely had speed as his play and 40 time (4.34) would indicate, but he was criminally under utilized. Part of it was burning his RS for 1 lousy catch during 2012, part was injuries, and I'd contend the majority was Greg Davis's mismatch of a route tree with KF's idea of offense.

As for the recruiting, the "Iowa" excuse is simultaneously valid and inaccurate. I'll preface by saying Iowa is not going to land 5-star guys by the handful any time soon, if ever. We can bitch until we're blue in the face, hire Scott Frost and PJ Fleck as co-recruiting coordinators, and it still would not happen. Period. We lack the current pedigree, as well as historical, and are at a geographical disadvantage to do so. The only thing that would ever change that is if Iowa had an Alabama type of run in the near future.

 

[dualradius]

My only comment is that top programs have loads of speed, everywhere. We’ve had maybe 20 in 20 years.

Sure, some aren’t great football players. But it’s a percentage game. When you have loads of speed - same as depth - kids not working out, injuries, kids graduating and leaving early, etc can be overcome.

When you only have a tiny bit, the stars have to align.

As far as recruiting, I understand it’s not easy, but KANSAS recruits loads of hoops talent and there’s nothing here. There’s always schools and programs that elevate themselves.

Point is, need a coach that believes he can.

 

[BVHawk95]

My only comment is that top programs have loads of speed, everywhere. We’ve had maybe 20 in 20 years.

Sure, some aren’t great football players. But it’s a percentage game. When you have loads of speed - same as depth - kids not working out, injuries, kids graduating and leaving early, etc can be overcome.

When you only have a tiny bit, the stars have to align.

As far as recruiting, I understand it’s not easy, but KANSAS recruits loads of hoops talent and there’s nothing here. There’s always schools and programs that elevate themselves.

Point is, need a coach that believes he can.

A) Hoops recruiting and football recruiting are extremely different from each other. Fewer scholarships and roster spots, many more D1 schools, much larger spotlight on the recruits and etc.

B) Kansas has the aforementioned pedigree to lean on. They've been perennial national title contenders for decades now. Not a very good comparison.

I agree that KF's ho-hum attitude about what Iowa has to offer is tiresome, but it's also the reality of Iowa football. Hayden never recruited much better, and had an equal eye for diamonds in the rough. A certain record-setting QB ran the option in high school and wasn't looked at seriously by anyone else.

I'd like to add that we are seeing a recent uptick in recruiting, and an increased effort on higher profile guys. If you look at Iowa's offer lists on any recruiting site, they do go after 4-5 star guys on the regular, it's just that landing them is a different story. It's not just an Iowa problem either. This SBNation article shows the ridiculous amount of talent the schools at the top hoard, and it also shows that the teams just behind them or having a recent upwards trend have one of the traits I previously mentioned. The short of it is, the reason those schools are at the top is because they always have and for the forseeable future will hog most of the talent in America.

 

[smitharooney]

A) Hoops recruiting and football recruiting are extremely different from each other. Fewer scholarships and roster spots, many more D1 schools, much larger spotlight on the recruits and etc.

B) Kansas has the aforementioned pedigree to lean on. They've been perennial national title contenders for decades now. Not a very good comparison.

I agree that KF's ho-hum attitude about what Iowa has to offer is tiresome, but it's also the reality of Iowa football. Hayden never recruited much better, and had an equal eye for diamonds in the rough. A certain record-setting QB ran the option in high school and wasn't looked at seriously by anyone else.

I'd like to add that we are seeing a recent uptick in recruiting, and an increased effort on higher profile guys. If you look at Iowa's offer lists on any recruiting site, they do go after 4-5 star guys on the regular, it's just that landing them is a different story. It's not just an Iowa problem either. This SBNation article shows the ridiculous amount of talent the schools at the top hoard, and it also shows that the teams just behind them or having a recent upwards trend have one of the traits I previously mentioned. The short of it is, the reason those schools are at the top is because they always have and for the forseeable future will hog most of the talent in America.

If Bill Snyder can get decent athletes to come to Manhattan Kansas then Ferentz should have no problems selling Iowa City.

 

[Robowe]

If Bill Snyder can get decent athletes to come to Manhattan Kansas then Ferentz should have no problems selling Iowa City.

It's funny you would use Snyder as a comparison considering that many folks think Ferentz has set up here at Iowa.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/

Snyder wants his son to take over and is doing whatever he can to ensure that happens

This is a program that has never signed a five-star in its history. It typically exists on the sweat and backbone of three stars. In one ambivalent statement at the worst possible time, Snyder put doubt in the minds of any stars.

 

[HawkGold]

Posted first time in a while in another thread. Haven’t posted in awhile.

Thought interesting topic.

Went to a game this year. Watch most games on tv.

The truth is that KF is all class. Represents university very well. Done some great things.

What is your definition of All Class. Is the Doyle Award all class? Is bumbling a sexual assault investigation all class? Is running over matched RBs headlong into 8 man fronts all class? Is hiring your son when there are other better more experienced coaches all class? Is what happened to CJ in the 4th of the Outback ALL CLASS?

As you can see, I am taking exception to the concept of ALL CLASS. KF has done some good things. He at times is classy.

Let's be serious though.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Someone has an ALT screen name. Wreaks of Sirius or Brown.

 

[mopkins]

Then on top of that we have zero five star recruits or speed. Never recruited it, and he never will. Can get away with it at non skill positions because you can teach and develop everything but speed.

Guess how many 5-star recruits Wisconsin has signed over the past 5 years? Zero. Michigan State? Zero. Nebraska? Zero

Guess how many 5-stars Michigan has signed over the past 5 years? 2. Guess how many Penn State has signed over the past 5 years? 2.

5-star recruits don't grow on trees. Each year there are about 10-15 of them, and about 90% of the time those kids go to blue blood schools (Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State, Georgia, etc). To expect Iowa to regularly land 5-star recruits is completely retarded

 

[BVHawk95]

If Bill Snyder can get decent athletes to come to Manhattan Kansas then Ferentz should have no problems selling Iowa City.

K-State has only had 2 classes in the top 50 in the last decade. Bill Snyder and K-State are the epitome of finding the "perfect fit" for their program, regardless of the recruit's rank.

 

[earlkoppelman]

Posted first time in a while in another thread. Haven’t posted in awhile.

Thought interesting topic.

Went to a game this year. Watch most games on tv.

The truth is that KF is all class. Represents university very well. Done some great things.

Develops talent like a machine! Players well coached.

Very vanilla system that allows Iowa to thrive as underdogs, and lose way too often when the more talented team.

Defensively this is okay, but offensively it kills Iowa.

Never open things up. Rarely throw over top. Never stretch field. Never audible to pass. Opponents can collapse in box.

Then on top of that we have zero five star recruits or speed. Never recruited it, and he never will. Can get away with it at non skill positions because you can teach and develop everything but speed.

Excuse is that he’s at Iowa. That’s garbage.

In any case, KF will never consistently compete for top of big 10 or national title. Neither will his kid.

Here’s the question: is that acceptable to you if he does like his father? Will university continue to accept that? They have for almost 20 years.

Bosses. ? Regent and Boosters require POWER AND MONEY. Kf and ad provide that.If o/c provides part all is well to people who hold GOLD. Wins???

 

[Robowe]

K-State has only had 2 classes in the top 50 in the last decade. Bill Snyder and K-State are the epitome of finding the "perfect fit" for their program, regardless of the recruit's rank.

I was driving out West over the Holidays and a sports broadcaster was discussing watching the Cactus Bowl with his wife's family who are all K-State grads. All of the K-State alums like Snyder, but think it is time to move on. Things are too predictable and the team is not quite as good as they could be. Snyder has earned the right to leave on his own, but they wish he would soon. And, they are not in favor of his kid taking over.

Sound familiar?

 

[BVHawk95]

I was driving out West over the Holidays and a sports broadcaster was discussing watching the Cactus Bowl with his wife's family who are all K-State grads. All of the K-State alums like Snyder, but think it is time to move on. Things are too predictable and the team is not quite as good as they could be. Snyder has earned the right to leave on his own, but they wish he would soon. And, they are not in favor of his kid taking over.

Sound familiar?

Sure does, and I can't say I entirely disagree with it. Funnily enough, Sean Snyder is even less qualified to be a coordinator than BF was.

 

[earlkoppelman]

I was driving out West over the Holidays and a sports broadcaster was discussing watching the Cactus Bowl with his wife's family who are all K-State grads. All of the K-State alums like Snyder, but think it is time to move on. Things are too predictable and the team is not quite as good as they could be. Snyder has earned the right to leave on his own, but they wish he would soon. And, they are not in favor of his kid taking over.

Sound familiar?

SAD but yes.Life no?Us fans dream of 9 wins Yikes.

 

[revkev73]

Kirk system is a perfect fit for a coach (and his family) to stay for decades and gain millions of dollars...it is designed to beat dog crap teams, stay close to teams of equal talent, and get to a bowl. It is exposed as a fraud when playing vs a talented team with speed and creativity. You try to get to 6-6, 7-5, 8-4...ideally play a slow, dog crap overrated team in a bowl...and finish 8-5, 9-4, 7-6...and get a bonus and a contract extension.

Hey it works for Kirk and son of Kirk...but is frustrating for those who hope for something better.

Kirk Ball is boring to the bone.

### Please don't say Kirk beat Ohio State...an anecdotal win does not change the 20 years of vanilla and boredom

There you have it...if you love vanilla and feel good about beating Northern Illinois and Illinois...you are living large

 

[ArvadaHawk]

My only comment is that top programs have loads of speed, everywhere. We’ve had maybe 20 in 20 years.

Sure, some aren’t great football players. But it’s a percentage game. When you have loads of speed - same as depth - kids not working out, injuries, kids graduating and leaving early, etc can be overcome.

When you only have a tiny bit, the stars have to align.

As far as recruiting, I understand it’s not easy, but KANSAS recruits loads of hoops talent and there’s nothing here. There’s always schools and programs that elevate themselves.

Point is, need a coach that believes he can.

So, between being able to catch the ball and have top speed but being a bad blocker, or being able to catch the ball and being a good blocker but not with speed, you'd take the first one, right? Me too.

Unfortunately, we seem to get too many good (not great) speak that can block but can't catch the ball consistently.

 

[MoseSchrute]

Here’s the question: is that acceptable to you if he does like his father?

Hell no. Iowa is a dinosaur in an age of offensive football. I never want us to have a crap defense, but I don't see why we have to approach offense like scoring points is the lowest priority for it.

 

[MoseSchrute]

Kirk system is a perfect fit for a coach (and his family) to stay for decades and gain millions of dollars...it is designed to beat dog crap teams

It must not be, because they've lost to many crap teams over the years.

 

[koralakers]

Great post. Pretty much nailed everything. Losing to lesser teams is maddening, but KF severely shortens games which allows this too. Pretty much 7-6 / 8-5 will be norm. Maybe occasionly finish above this, occasionly below. Wish we recruited better. Saw a stat and only jNW offers less players in BIG. Don't understand this. Why not offer EVERY 4 or 5 star guy in nation. Worst that could happen is they say no.

MN and ISU (new coaches) do that, and had their best classed in history.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I was driving out West over the Holidays and a sports broadcaster was discussing watching the Cactus Bowl with his wife's family who are all K-State grads. All of the K-State alums like Snyder, but think it is time to move on. Things are too predictable and the team is not quite as good as they could be. Snyder has earned the right to leave on his own, but they wish he would soon. And, they are not in favor of his kid taking over.

Sound familiar?

I might be wrong, but they'll massively miss Snyder. He's given them consistency and they are competitive and a damn tough out. It'll be interesting.

And I'm only speaking in terms of KSU. Iowa is and can be more than KSU, historically speaking.