Jerminic Smith-Jay Scheel Split End Race Too Close to Call

It's said if you have two quarterbacks, you have none. I don't think the same addage holds true for WRs. Good to hear both are stepping up, as CJB will need as many targets as possible this fall.
 
homes said:
It's said if you have two quarterbacks, you have none. I don't think the same addage holds true for WRs. Good to hear both are stepping up, as CJB will need as many targets as possible this fall.
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Yep. But I never bought the old cliche' about QBs.

Play em both and throw the ball...or run a one back set.

One thing I found curious, is that Davis said he expects to move Ryan Boyle back to QB next year. Then why is he working at WR now?
 
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Both are extremely talented and both will make good receivers for Iowa this year. I look forward to seeing them catch the ball deep!
 
The Iowa coaches are pretty rigid when it comes to playing their WRs at a specific position. As they get older, they feed them more and allow them to play multiple WR spots to a degree.

We're just not going to throw the three fastest guys in there and tell them to run deep. You better know your position and be a able and willing blocker. It's one of the reasons we were so successful running the ball last year. Tevaun and Hillyer blocked their asses off.

I think Boyle being put in there is a commentary on where things stand with the development of the returning players at the position. Davis also talking about putting Kittle and Shaun Beyer out wide tells me the receivers better improve their blocking.
 
RobHowe said:
The Iowa coaches are pretty rigid when it comes to playing their WRs at a specific position. As they get older, they feed them more and allow them to play multiple WR spots to a degree.

We're just not going to throw the three fastest guys in there and tell them to run deep. You better know your position and be a able and willing blocker. It's one of the reasons we were so successful running the ball last year. Tevaun and Hillyer blocked their asses off.

I think Boyle being put in there is a commentary on where things stand with the development of the returning players at the position. Davis also talking about putting Kittle and Shaun Beyer out wide tells me the receivers better improve their blocking.
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Far be it from me to comment as anything other than a fan, but a WRs primary job is to get open and catch passes, blocking should be a bonus. Maybe that's why Iowa has trouble getting top notch WRs to come to Iowa (and why none that do come ever make to the NFL), which then makes it more difficult to attract highly rated WRs. It's their philosophy, and it's worked for them, but it's also limited them in some respects over time.
 
I still wonder why they moved Mitchell to RB. He seams like he would be the perfect fit at the slot/inside receiver to create crazy match up problems for teams. If he builds on what we saw last year he should be on the field as much as possible with Wadley and Daniels splitting the load at RB.
 
NickM said:
I still wonder why they moved Mitchell to RB. He seams like he would be the perfect fit at the slot/inside receiver to create crazy match up problems for teams. If he builds on what we saw last year he should be on the field as much as possible with Wadley and Daniels splitting the load at RB.
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Because of his size and overall athletic ability he's actually perfect for his role now. He can pass block better than the other RBs which is huge on 3rd downs plus he has the best hands amongst them. He's invaluable where he is I'd say.
 
RobHowe said:
The Iowa coaches are pretty rigid when it comes to playing their WRs at a specific position. As they get older, they feed them more and allow them to play multiple WR spots to a degree.

We're just not going to throw the three fastest guys in there and tell them to run deep. You better know your position and be a able and willing blocker. It's one of the reasons we were so successful running the ball last year. Tevaun and Hillyer blocked their asses off.

I think Boyle being put in there is a commentary on where things stand with the development of the returning players at the position. Davis also talking about putting Kittle and Shaun Beyer out wide tells me the receivers better improve their blocking.
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I think they need to have the best players on the field period. I think the staffs (not just at Iowa but all over) tend to put too much emphasis on players knowing the playbook inside out rather than just being instinctive football players. The best plays are often the broken plays/drawn up in the dirt at recess ones. Turning them into robots where they are counting their steps slows them down I think. Especially at first anyway when they know every false step or rep means they are sitting is tough. Now I'm not saying to totally scrap what they do. I'm just saying having a little Brett Farve in CJ and the same type of personality amongst receivers to match wouldn't be a bad thing. That deep ball that J Smith caught last year was a totally busted play where he just reacted to CJ being flushed out. Those types of plays are what Iowa needs more of.
And I totally agree blocking in this offense can't be understated. Hillyer pretty much took his guy out of the picture on every running play. Watch what he did on the Wadley TD against NW and Vandebergs screen pass TD. I think Scheel has a bit more size to him. Physically he kinda reminds me of DJK. At least the closest thing since. I hope he can block well and if he does I'd think he'd have a leg up on Smith but we'll see sounds pretty even.
I don't read into Boyle/Kittle and Beyer all getting WR reps quite the same way. Boyle is athletic but he's never blocked ever. But he knows what to do with the ball when he has it in his hands. I think they look at him as a play maker in HS he ran with it a lot. So with the QB depth chart where it is and his skills being what they are it makes sense that they find a way to use him. (maybe they all learned a lesson during AJ Derby era) So I don't think he was moved over to force competition in regards to blocking at all.
Kittle I think is just plain a versatile weapon that they should be looking to move around and use in mismatch situations. Not sure it's due to lack of other WRs blocking skills either.
And Beyer is a true freshman tweener that I don't think they know quite what to do with yet. Not sure if he'll fill out to be a TE or if he'll stay about where he is size wise and maybe play out wide. I'll be surprised if he's in there this year at all but we'll see.
 
RobHowe said:
The Iowa coaches are pretty rigid when it comes to playing their WRs at a specific position. As they get older, they feed them more and allow them to play multiple WR spots to a degree.

We're just not going to throw the three fastest guys in there and tell them to run deep. You better know your position and be a able and willing blocker. It's one of the reasons we were so successful running the ball last year. Tevaun and Hillyer blocked their asses off.

I think Boyle being put in there is a commentary on where things stand with the development of the returning players at the position. Davis also talking about putting Kittle and Shaun Beyer out wide tells me the receivers better improve their blocking.
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This. Because of Boyle's physicality I think he is going to see the field this year. Catching 20-30 passes this year might be a reach, but he is strong and he likes contact. You can sit him down in a zone with a 4-5 yd. hitch or a comeback and he can take the hit.
 
When 2 players are even for QB, that's a debate that goes on forever, because eventually you want to pick 1 guy to play all the snaps.

When 2 WR s are even, it's like, yawn, they will just split their time 50/50 and eventually 1 guy will pull ahead. But even then, it will never get to the point where 1 guy is play 100% of the time. The key is both guys will play and get their chances.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
I think they need to have the best players on the field period. I think the staffs (not just at Iowa but all over) tend to put too much emphasis on players knowing the playbook inside out rather than just being instinctive football players. The best plays are often the broken plays/drawn up in the dirt at recess ones. Turning them into robots where they are counting their steps slows them down I think. Especially at first anyway when they know every false step or rep means they are sitting is tough. Now I'm not saying to totally scrap what they do. I'm just saying having a little Brett Farve in CJ and the same type of personality amongst receivers to match wouldn't be a bad thing. That deep ball that J Smith caught last year was a totally busted play where he just reacted to CJ being flushed out. Those types of plays are what Iowa needs more of.
And I totally agree blocking in this offense can't be understated. Hillyer pretty much took his guy out of the picture on every running play. Watch what he did on the Wadley TD against NW and Vandebergs screen pass TD. I think Scheel has a bit more size to him. Physically he kinda reminds me of DJK. At least the closest thing since. I hope he can block well and if he does I'd think he'd have a leg up on Smith but we'll see sounds pretty even.
I don't read into Boyle/Kittle and Beyer all getting WR reps quite the same way. Boyle is athletic but he's never blocked ever. But he knows what to do with the ball when he has it in his hands. I think they look at him as a play maker in HS he ran with it a lot. So with the QB depth chart where it is and his skills being what they are it makes sense that they find a way to use him. (maybe they all learned a lesson during AJ Derby era) So I don't think he was moved over to force competition in regards to blocking at all.
Kittle I think is just plain a versatile weapon that they should be looking to move around and use in mismatch situations. Not sure it's due to lack of other WRs blocking skills either.
And Beyer is a true freshman tweener that I don't think they know quite what to do with yet. Not sure if he'll fill out to be a TE or if he'll stay about where he is size wise and maybe play out wide. I'll be surprised if he's in there this year at all but we'll see.
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I get the frustration with the Iowa coaches' expectations for their receivers. I admit that sometimes I wish they would put the guy in there with the ability to make an explosive play. So, don't kill the messenger. And I also understand their philosophy.

When people say that the coaches need to put the best player in there, that's subjective. In their minds, they are putting the best players in there. It's the receiver that does his job the best from top to bottom. That includes catching, route running, knowing assignments and being able to block. It's the total package, not just being good at one or two things.

Two years ago at Purdue, Tevaun Smith left the game with an injury. Derrick Willies replaced him. I was shooting photos in the end zone as Iowa entered the red zone. Willies was lining up next to Martin-Manley. On two or three plays in a row, Willies didn't know the play. He kept having to ask Martin-Manley what to do.

I'm not bagging on Willies. He was a redshirt freshman at the time being thrown into the fire on the road. He needed more development time. The next week was a bye then we hosted Indiana and played at Maryland. Willies playing time was reduced. He left the team. Fans freaked out. Sometimes there's more to the story than we see on the surface.
 
RobHowe said:
I get the frustration with the Iowa coaches' expectations for their receivers. I admit that sometimes I wish they would put the guy in there with the ability to make an explosive play. So, don't kill the messenger. And I also understand their philosophy.

When people say that the coaches need to put the best player in there, that's subjective. In their minds, they are putting the best players in there. It's the receiver that does his job the best from top to bottom. That includes catching, route running, knowing assignments and being able to block. It's the total package, not just being good at one or two things.

Two years ago at Purdue, Tevaun Smith left the game with an injury. Derrick Willies replaced him. I was shooting photos in the end zone as Iowa entered the red zone. Willies was lining up next to Martin-Manley. On two or three plays in a row, Willies didn't know the play. He kept having to ask Martin-Manley what to do.

I'm not bagging on Willies. He was a redshirt freshman at the time being thrown into the fire on the road. He needed more development time. The next week was a bye then we hosted Indiana and played at Maryland. Willies playing time was reduced. He left the team. Fans freaked out. Sometimes there's more to the story than we see on the surface.
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Yeah I agree with you that that's the coaches line of thinking on it. I wasn't trying to come off as if I was shooting the messenger sorry if it did. It is for sure a subjective thing. It seems like when it comes to the playbooks coaches try to make them just so complicated that it's darn near impossible for any new player to grasp a fraction of it. They don't have that many practices with all the limitations that they have in that regard. And once the season starts the reps for the backups really go down as they spend most of them and time on the game planning for the starters. The players that end up on scout team end up working on what the other teams are running more so than Iowa. The summers & springs are really when progress is made. I wish Iowa's staff could be more forward thinking when it comes to all of that and for a lack of a better word 'dumby' down the play book if possible for the newbies that physically could be out there making plays otherwise. I'm sure that won't be a well received line of thinking on it but I think it could help..
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Yeah I agree with you that that's the coaches line of thinking on it. I wasn't trying to come off as if I was shooting the messenger sorry if it did. It is for sure a subjective thing. It seems like when it comes to the playbooks coaches try to make them just so complicated that it's darn near impossible for any new player to grasp a fraction of it. They don't have that many practices with all the limitations that they have in that regard. And once the season starts the reps for the backups really go down as they spend most of them and time on the game planning for the starters. The players that end up on scout team end up working on what the other teams are running more so than Iowa. The summers & springs are really when progress is made. I wish Iowa's staff could be more forward thinking when it comes to all of that and for a lack of a better word 'dumby' down the play book if possible for the newbies that physically could be out there making plays otherwise. I'm sure that won't be a well received line of thinking on it but I think it could help..
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No worries. I wasn't really referring to you when I was saying don't kill the messenger but more the general tone from some in the fan base when we discuss WRs. Put the fast guy in to stretch the field and throw bombs. Who cares about blocking or knowing the plays? The coaches do. And that's not going to change.

FWIW, Gary Dolphin said on KGYM yesterday that a true freshmen receiver has looked really good in practice. Dolph didn't want to name names. Well, Devonte Young is the only true freshman WR. :)
 
RobHowe said:
No worries. I wasn't really referring to you when I was saying don't kill the messenger but more the general tone from some in the fan base when we discuss WRs. Put the fast guy in to stretch the field and throw bombs. Who cares about blocking or knowing the plays? The coaches do. And that's not going to change.

FWIW, Gary Dolphin said on KGYM yesterday that a true freshmen receiver has looked really good in practice. Dolph didn't want to name names. Well, Devonte Young is the only true freshman WR. :)
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Talk about an under the radar kid. I haven't heard much about him since he signed. Everyone's so worried about the current RS freshman and kids being recruited for next year that he's slid right in the side door. The cream will rise to the top
 
Devonte Young earned most of his HS accolades as a DB and a lot of schools recruited him at that spot. The Iowa coaches always have liked him at WR. I'm interested to see him on Saturday.
 
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