Is it just me,

[tm3308]

Or is our tackling just not really that good? I've been seeing our guys miss tackles all season, and it's starting to get REALLY frustrating. Sash has been the worst culprit of going for the big hit, instead of just making a fundamentally sound tackle. And believe it or not, you can bring the hammer and still be fundamentally sound. Just watch Bob Sanders when he was in Black and Gold.

There were quite a few plays where poor tackling led to extra yards for Michigan. The one that sticks out the most happened in the 3rd quarter, when Sash missed an open-field tackle on a screen pass to Roundtree. Instead of the 3rd and 10 that Michigan should have been facing (with a 44-yard field goal attempt), Roundtree was able to get the first down, and Michigan looked certain to score. On the next play, Vincent Smith fumbled.

Now you can call me a Negative Nancy, Debbie Downer, someone who just wants something to complain about, nit-picker, whatever. I don't care. We always have had a reputation for playing sound, fundamental football. Well, tackling is arguably the MOST fundamental element of football, and the Hawks are not doing particularly well at it. This is a serious problem, and just because Klug bailed us out with a forced fumble doesn't make it go away. If it doesn't get cleaned up (and at this point, I'll believe it when I see it. It's still going on 6 games into the season, so I'm not going to just assume it's going to get fixed.), then sooner or later it's going to beat us.

 

[Scooter]

I agree the tackling needs to be worked on, but its not horrible. You know it will be addressed.

 

[DBorwig316]

I've noticed this too, and it has really started to bother me. We got away with it yesterday, but I hope this gets addressed this week, because missing tackles on Clay and White equal touchdowns for Bucky.

 

[tm3308]

I agree the tackling needs to be worked on, but its not horrible. You know it will be addressed.

Perhaps not horrible but, there are one or two guys who need to seriously focus on doing it right, and not go for the big hit (Sash, and even Greenwood has done it a couple times this year). On Royster's longer runs late in the game two weeks ago, I swear he broke 10 tackles between the two runs. Wisky and MSU can make you pay for plays like that.

And like I said, I'm not assuming that it gets fixed at this point. I was seeing this in Week 1, and it's still going on. I'm beginning to think that either the coaches addressed it a long time ago (After Week 1 or 2, like it should have been) and it's just not showing on the field, or they haven't noticed it and have yet to address it. Either way, it doesn't seem safe to assume that it's going to get fixed.

 

[trj]

I'm going agree with Jon on this and just say it is an isolated episode, that it was the personnel match-ups that Michigan created that caused the poor tackling.

As for Sash despite the big plays he made this wasn't one of his better games...With that said other than the Michigan game, Sash has been terrific in run support.....I've got no beef with sash.

I'm not one those "fundamental" guys but tackling in general has been bad at the NFL and D-1 level. That is what i appreciate watching the hawks the tackling is fundamental,crisp, textbook, excluding the michigan game.


I'll give you special teams.....the the tackling hasn't been good. Not sure if guys are going for highlight reel tackles, running out of their lanes or what...but i'll concede that.

 

[VenturaAce]

They hit hard, but rarely wrap up. Denard Robinson is slippery enough that it is difficult to get a clean shot on him (although we must have eventually got him good in Q3). A lot of highlight reel hits and we swarm enough that a few other defenders eventually get to the play to clean it up, but it's tough to watch us miss some tackles where we are lunging and not even attempting to wrap up. I hope it does not burn us down the road...

 

[tm3308]

I'm going agree with Jon on this and just say it is an isolated episode, that it was the personnel match-ups that Michigan created that caused the poor tackling.

As for Sash despite the big plays he made this wasn't one of his better games...With that said other than the Michigan game, Sash has been terrific in run support.....I've got no beef with sash.

I'm not one those "fundamental" guys but tackling in general has been bad at the NFL and D-1 level. That is what i appreciate watching the hawks the tackling is fundamental,crisp, textbook, excluding the michigan game.


I'll give you special teams.....the the tackling hasn't been good. Not sure if guys are going for highlight reel tackles, running out of their lanes or what...but i'll concede that.

Sash hasn't been wrapping up for most of this season, either. And don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE TMFS fan, I'm not picking on him because I have some kind of Kaldenberg/Wegher dislike of him. But he hasn't played like his usual self this year. He's made the play on several of those big hit attempts, but that doesn't mean what he's doing is good. It's not just been on special teams that the tackling hasn't been up to our usual standards.

 

[tm3308]

They hit hard, but rarely wrap up. Denard Robinson is slippery enough that it is difficult to get a clean shot on him (although we must have eventually got him good in Q3). A lot of highlight reel hits and we swarm enough that a few other defenders eventually get to the play to clean it up, but it's tough to watch us miss some tackles where we are lunging and not even attempting to wrap up. I hope it does not burn us down the road...

This is what I'm getting at. IIRC, one of the LB's had Royster slowed up, and Greenwood came in to deliver the blow. But, he didn't wrap up, and he doesn't hit nearly as hard as Sash. All it succeeded in doing was knock Royster free of Hunter/Nielsen/Morris (whichever one had him to begin with).

 

[trj]

Sash hasn't been wrapping up for most of this season, either. And don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE TMFS fan, I'm not picking on him because I have some kind of Kaldenberg/Wegher dislike of him. But he hasn't played like his usual self this year. He's made the play on several of those big hit attempts, but that doesn't mean what he's doing is good. It's not just been on special teams that the tackling hasn't been up to our usual standards.

Agree to disagree on this.........Excluding the Michigan game he has made most of the tackles he suppose to make. However, I've have notice that he is trying to chop people down instead of using arms when making tackles, I've seen other Iowa DB's do it in the past, but that has been based on angles they have taken......It seems as if Sash has gone to this a lot more than usual.

Btw, polamalu is really good with that chop down technique......Sash isn't polamalu, but he is making tackles, he is doing what he suppose to in run support....If the michigan game becomes the norm then i'll back what you are saying.

 

[tm3308]

Agree to disagree on this.........Excluding the Michigan game he has made most of the tackles he suppose to make. However, I've have notice that he is trying to chop people down instead of using arms when making tackles, I've seen other Iowa DB's do it in the past, but that has been based on angles they have taken......It seems as if Sash has gone to this a lot more than usual.

Btw, polamalu is really good with that chop down technique......Sash isn't polamalu, but he is making tackles, he is doing what he suppose to in run support....If the michigan game becomes the norm then i'll back what you are saying.

Fair enough. Polamalu is to tackling as Vlad Guerrero is to hitting a baseball: not fundamentally sound, but very effective. I just would prefer to see it nipped in the bud, and not wait for things to go wrong.

 

[CharlestonHawkeye]

I've got one name for you to explain why some of our tackling hasn't been as good this year...Angerer. That man was a tackling machine last year.

I do agree though that the tackling by some of the other players who also played last year has not been as crisp.

 

[Saginawbay]

I would agree with the your original take tackling has not been as good, and I think part of the problem is no Norm Parker I am sure that makes a difference with him at every practice and meeting and during games lets hope he gets back soon.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

I would agree with the your original take tackling has not been as good, and I think part of the problem is no Norm Parker I am sure that makes a difference with him at every practice and meeting and during games lets hope he gets back soon.

Ok, I get what everyone is saying about things being a little looser than last year, but it's actually kind of interesting to hear Iowa fans complain about tackling. I was watching the game in a bar with a bunch of SEC friends after going to the the Georgia / Vandy game yesterday. Two different people in our group commented to me about how good a tackling team Iowa was...in particular in space with our linebackers. Unsolicited feedback.

Now, they weren't too impressed with the corner play late in the game and felt Sash and Greenwood looked slow to the ball. I then told them pay close attention to the defense in the Auburn game. They shut up.

 

[tm3308]

Ok, I get what everyone is saying about things being a little looser than last year, but it's actually kind of interesting to hear Iowa fans complain about tackling. I was watching the game in a bar with a bunch of SEC friends after going to the the Georgia / Vandy game yesterday. Two different people in our group commented to me about how good a tackling team Iowa was...in particular in space with our linebackers. Unsolicited feedback.

Now, they weren't too impressed with the corner play late in the game and felt Sash and Greenwood looked slow to the ball. I then told them pay close attention to the defense in the Auburn game. They shut up.

The linebackers' tackling (epsecially Hunter's) is still pretty good most of the time (and it was yesterday for most of the game). But I'm not surprised those SEC friends were impressed. The SEC and Big 12 are a big reason why tackling is so poor in the NFL. And that's what they see each week.

It's usually in the secondary where the problem lies, IMO. The LB's have the occassional poor attempt, but they do it right the vast majority of the time. Sash and Greenwood haven't been fundamentally sound nearly as often as they have been for the past 2 and 3 years.

 

[SeattleHawkeye]

There was a thread discussing Sash's play after the PSU game on Hawkeye Insider, in particular the long pass play just before half over Prater, and I hate to say it, but TMFS hasn't played particularly well this season, in particular re to tackling, and earlier this season he had issues in coverage. He seems more intent on making a huge, highlight reel hit than just bringing the ball carrier down, and it's getting frustrating to watch. He whiffed multiple times yesterday, and his tackling just hasn't been solid, either. I definitely noticed it yesterday, and have noticed it throughout the season.

On the flip side, I've been really happy w/ most of the LB tackling, which is very important to overall defensive success. I've felt in particular Hunter and Nielsen have tackled pretty well throughout the season, and hopefully Sash picks it up.

 

[2xer]

Or is our tackling just not really that good? I've been seeing our guys miss tackles all season, and it's starting to get REALLY frustrating. Sash has been the worst culprit of going for the big hit, instead of just making a fundamentally sound tackle. And believe it or not, you can bring the hammer and still be fundamentally sound. Just watch Bob Sanders when he was in Black and Gold.

There were quite a few plays where poor tackling led to extra yards for Michigan. The one that sticks out the most happened in the 3rd quarter, when Sash missed an open-field tackle on a screen pass to Roundtree. Instead of the 3rd and 10 that Michigan should have been facing (with a 44-yard field goal attempt), Roundtree was able to get the first down, and Michigan looked certain to score. On the next play, Vincent Smith fumbled.

Now you can call me a Negative Nancy, Debbie Downer, someone who just wants something to complain about, nit-picker, whatever. I don't care. We always have had a reputation for playing sound, fundamental football. Well, tackling is arguably the MOST fundamental element of football, and the Hawks are not doing particularly well at it. This is a serious problem, and just because Klug bailed us out with a forced fumble doesn't make it go away. If it doesn't get cleaned up (and at this point, I'll believe it when I see it. It's still going on 6 games into the season, so I'm not going to just assume it's going to get fixed.), then sooner or later it's going to beat us.

I think on the play you are referring to, Sash didn't miss the tackle as much as overrun the play. He also got caught in between going for the ball and making the big hit on another play.

 

[tm3308]

I think on the play you are referring to, Sash didn't miss the tackle as much as overrun the play. He also got caught in between going for the ball and making the big hit on another play.

He overran the play because he had his head down, and wasn't set to make a good open-field tackle. That's the WORST time to go for the highlight reel hit, because your chances of missing are greatly increased.

 

[DDThompson]

There was a thread discussing Sash's play after the PSU game on Hawkeye Insider, in particular the long pass play just before half over Prater, and I hate to say it, but TMFS hasn't played particularly well this season, in particular re to tackling, and earlier this season he had issues in coverage. He seems more intent on making a huge, highlight reel hit than just bringing the ball carrier down, and it's getting frustrating to watch. He whiffed multiple times yesterday, and his tackling just hasn't been solid, either. I definitely noticed it yesterday, and have noticed it throughout the season.

On the flip side, I've been really happy w/ most of the LB tackling, which is very important to overall defensive success. I've felt in particular Hunter and Nielsen have tackled pretty well throughout the season, and hopefully Sash picks it up.

This is good.

Sash had a career in one season and I'm sure he's anxious to keep it going.

Just got to play basic fundamentals and the big plays will come rather than going out and trying to make the great play every play.

 

[tm3308]

This is good.

Sash had a career in one season and I'm sure he's anxious to keep it going.

Just got to play basic fundamentals and the big plays will come rather than going out and trying to make the great play every play.

Otherwise you end up like Taylor Mays: a guy who gets passed over by his college coach in the NFL draft for the guy (Earl Thomas) that makes the big plays by just doing his job and playing smart, fundamental football (Like Sash did his first two years).

 

[trj]

I think people are nitpicking and overreacting over one subpar performance. clearly, I'm in the minority on this so maybe i'm wrong. He is late getting over on a couple of plays and people are saying he is having a bad year.

I guess the bar is set so high that it is impossible to live up to.