Inherient FLAW with any playoff system

H

HomerChampless

Well-Known Member
So, the championship game in NCAA basketball pits a 7 seed against an 8 seed. IMO, real problems, here...

First of all, is the regular season even relevant? Were UConn and UK relevant in NCAA college basketball in, lets say, January? No, they weren't... It's understandable all conferences have championship playoffs at the end of their regular seasons to determine the league champion. It also (IMO, probably more important) gives the NCAA Final Four selection committee a 'snapshot' of teams most likely to win the NCAA championship. Who's hot. Who's not. If a team is going to win the NCAA Final Four championship, they have to be hot.. or get hot real soon... or be extremely lucky. What if a team that had at best a .500 record before the conference tournament gets extremely hot during the conference tournament and qualifies for the NCAA Final Four tournament? Should they be let into the NCAA Final Four tournament? Should they be given the same opportunity to win as, let's say, the number 1 seed in this years tournament, Florida? What about teams like, for instance, St. Louis U., who flew through the regular season until their last 5-6 games? Should the NCAA Final Four committee give St. Louis U. any 'leeway' in seeding?

What do I mean by a leeway in seeding? I think to make the regular season relevant, the top, let's say, 12 seeds have a bye into the 3rd round (1st round the Iowa/qualifying round, 2nd round where some of the 64 teams begin to compete against each other). As an example, Florida's first game would be against the winner of an, for example, 8-9 seed matchup.

I understand teams would have to be rated, computer or otherwise, to determine the best, let's say, 12 teams in the NCAA tournament.

Playoff football will be the same. The hottest team at the time of the playoffs will win the championship. Injuries will play a huge part in determining the 'national champion' with a playoff system...Wish I knew how to spell inherent before creating the thread head......
 
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Yawn. Why not let the defending champion get a "bye" all the way to the final/championship game, a la "Karate Kid: Part III"?
 
It's easy to realize the NCAA Final Four selection committee really shafted Iowa with it's matchup with Tennessee. Tennessee lost a close game in the semi finals of the SEC tournament. Iowa lost in the first round of the B1G tournament to Northwestern.... Maybe the Final Four selection committee really wanted Tennessee in the tournament, but had to 'legitimize' Tennessee's involvement in the NCAA tournament (because of Tennessee's record) by qualifying Tennessee against a 'patsy' team like Iowa. Iowa, a team that was once highly rated in the season but had fallen on hard times...
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
Yawn. Why not let the defending champion get a "bye" all the way to the final/championship game, a la "Karate Kid: Part III"?
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Guess you don't care that the national basketball champion crowned with the NCAA Final Four tournament may not actually be the best overall team this season...
 
Inherent FLAW in your analysis.

Your entire analysis is premised upon the idea that the NCAA wants to determine who is the best team in college basketball. It doesn't. The NCAA wants the chaos of a clearly superior 2 seed losing to a 15 seed, because that is what people want to watch.

If the goal was to determine the best team in college basketball, a single-elimination tournament is certainly not the way to go. Hence, the use of a single-elimination tournament should indicate to you that the goal is not to determine the best team in college basketball.

The goal is to create a spectator event, which the NCAA has successfully done.
 
Prepare to have your mind blown....

If you could put together a single-elimination tournament that was large enough, a team could win a million games in a row.

(This may require some intergalactic participants because we don't have enough folks on earth to field enough teams to get to that many rounds.)
 
So the NCAA gives a trophy to the team winning its Final Four tournament because the team is a winner of the Final Four tournament.. period? Is there a trophy (or at least an acknowledgement) for the best overall team for the season?
 
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Don't need a million possibilities or a million outcomes to determine the best team. Weigh the regular season accordingly...

Also another thought to weigh the regular season accordingly: for example, have a 1 seed play a much lower seed... Have all the teams play. Then the winners will all be reseeded. The next games will have the highest seeds against the lowest seeds. Winners are reseeded ad nauseam. Might be playing games at home courts (like in the NIT tournament). And the NCAA Final Four tournament might take a little longer. And the NCAA will get a lot more in attendance revenue... The NCAA will probably need more cameras and announcers to broadcast all the games of the NCAA tournament...
 
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Wait... isn't that what's so great about March Madness?? Anybody can beat anybody and everybody gets a new life. All you have to do is get in.
 
Just ask, for example, a traditional basketball power like Kansas what's more important. The regular season or the NCAA Final Four season?
 
I don't think there's much to debate here...

You prefer a system similar to the current (maybe it's former at this point) college football system that puts an emphasis on the regular season as oppossed to the NFL or NCAA basketball that is a playoff that can allow any team to get hot and win it all.

My personal opinion is that I like college football without a playoff becuase it makes each game so critical. I like that about college football.

I like college basketball the way it is becuase it makes the NCAA tournament so much fun and unlike football they can play games with just 1 day of rest and get back on the court.

To each their own.
 
While I understand where the OP is coming from, I question that mentality. IMO the only way to hand out hardware at the end of the season is to do it the way it is done now. While I agree that it is flawed by having a committee determine the seeding, if its reseeded by round or teams are seeded based solely on rankings I think that hurts how the regular season plays out.

Wichita State is the perfect example. Undefeated in regular season, but obviously not the best team in America and played a very soft OOC schedule to go with their cupcake conference schedule. I think the OOC scheduling becomes incredibly watered down if everyone is playing for a top ranking rather then putting together an impressive resume.

While you may be right that the "best team" may not win it all or be playing for a championship tonight the fact is you cannot say that UCONN and Kentucky don't belong there either based on their recent body of work. As flawed as things may be, the argument as to who the "best team" in the regular season can be questioned just as easily when those in contention don't advance all the way through the bracket.
 
The term "defending Champion" is one of the most overused and misused terms in sport.

Boxing has a defending Champion. Pro wrestling has defending Champions. You keep the belt until someone knocks you off.

Team sports do not. They have defined seasons, and each season is independent of previous seasons. The players are different too. The 2013 Champion is no closer to becoming the 2014 Champion than any other team. They have to go through the playoffs and win it like every other team. And if they lose, that does not take away their 2013 Championship.

Returning Champion... ok. But they're not "defending" anything.
 
HomerChampless said:
Guess you don't care that the national basketball champion crowned with the NCAA Final Four tournament may not actually be the best overall team this season...
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Newsflash: Any one-and-done format is severely flawed. The NFL's playoffs don't always produce the best team (seriously, the Giants were not a better team than the Patriots in 2007-08; they were just better for one day). Even playoffs that use 5- or 7-game series to determine winners can produce upsets.

If everything were seeded perfectly and it all went chalk, why the **** would we even bother watching?
 
The NCAA Tournament is not a playoff system. It is a single elimination tournament. This is nothing like the NBA or MLB where teams play a best of 5/7 series, where the better teams usually win.. Comparing a tournament to a true PLAYOFF is an apples and oranges comparison.

And nobody can tell me that the regular season doesn't mean anything because of the NCAA Tournament. You don't get to the NCAA Tournament without having a good regular season. I will have the same response to those who claim that a college football playoff system (although it will technically be a single elimination tournament) will have the same effect on the meaning of the regular season: Without a good regular season, you won't be in the playoffs.
 
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hawkdrummer1 said:
The term "defending Champion" is one of the most overused and misused terms in sport.

Boxing has a defending Champion. Pro wrestling has defending Champions. You keep the belt until someone knocks you off.

Team sports do not. They have defined seasons, and each season is independent of previous seasons. The players are different too. The 2013 Champion is no closer to becoming the 2014 Champion than any other team. They have to go through the playoffs and win it like every other team. And if they lose, that does not take away their 2013 Championship.

Returning Champion... ok. But they're not "defending" anything.
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Agreed. And it's not unusual to see a "defending" champion lose a lot of players from the previous year, and in essence, they are not the same team that won the championship the previous year. Just ask Louisville. Should they get early round bye(s) just because of what happened last year? NO. This year is THIS year. Not last year.
 
HomerChampless said:
Guess you don't care that the national basketball champion crowned with the NCAA Final Four tournament may not actually be the best overall team this season...
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Nope. My only advice to you is to just skip basketball and get ready for college football if you don't like college basketball's system. I, for one, think it's great that the little guy has a fighting chance rather than just simply giving the award to Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc. at the end of each regular season.
 
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