Give it a rest already

[MtownHawk]

I've been reading the posts on this board for a while and have finally gotten to a point where I had to register so i could vent a little. I know we are all Hawk fans here and thus likely not very objective when we watch the games but you guys need to lay off John Lickliter. I doubt we would see all the negative posts about him if his last name was different. Where are all the "Devan Bawinkel couldn't play for any other D1 program" posts? Heck, he's a senior and I'm guessing he's on scholarship.
I remember the first time I saw John get in to a game. I think it was against Purdue. I thought it was going to be a disaster when he came into the game, but it wasn't. In fact, I saw him doing someting very basic in that game that Payne wasn't. He was facing the basket like you would expect any point guard to do. Before he came in Cully was backing the ball in from the point. It's pretty tough to see the court when you're looking over your shoulder.
I'm not in any way saying he's the future at point guard for the Hawks but he does what you expect your bench players to do. He gives the starters a rest and holds his own. By looking at the posts here you'd think he turns the ball over every three minutes and gets scored on every time down the court. Do we look like all stars when he's not on the floor and a JV squad as soon as he comes in? His A/T ratio is better than Payne's and I read a post on here that said it should be because he plays fewer minutes. What??? Where's the logic there? Maybe we should have a six man rotation at PG so we can get that number to about 4:1.
I'm just asking for a little objectivity here. Give the kid a break.

 

[Imlivingthedream]

the assist to turnover thing is misleading. Sure John doesnt have many turnovers....maybe in part due to the fact he never takes the ball to the basket to get a shot or create a shot for a team mate. Its easy to never turn the ball over when you just pass it around the perimeter.

According to Iowa stats..John has 12 assists in 133 minutes this year.

Cully has 80 assists in 705 minutes.

Do the math.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/iowa/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/cumulative-stats.pdf

 

[MtownHawk]

From the same page, turnovers 71 vs 5 and I could say the same thing about assists in relation to taking the ball to the basket. That's not my point though. I'm not saying John is the best point guard on the team. I'm just saying give the kid a break. The level of criticism here is not justified by what he is doing on the floor.

 

[clicheusername3]

well ive had enough of people yapping about how hard minilick plays and he energizes the team and yadda yadda whatever...when he is in the game it is like 4 1/2 on 5 or worse. Not good odds.

 

[hawkeyescott]

And for the 100th time, people aren't ripping on little Lick it is all about him playing 24 minutes. You can't be serious and think he is good enough to get that many minutes? I don't have a problem with him playing 5 to 10 a game to give others a rest, and Bawinkle is getting less minutes than he did last year.

It all comes back to Lick talking about how each guy would want to play 40 minutes and should be able to with the 8 tv timeouts a game and now he goes back on that and says he has to play John to give others rest, it doesn't add up. That is what all the griping is about.

 

[NewMexHawk]

No one here is criticizing lil Lick...It is big Lick that is being criticized and rightfully so.

 

[deanvogs]

No one here is criticizing lil Lick...It is big Lick that is being criticized and rightfully so.

Really? Read some of the post and substitute your child in there for the name of Lil Lick, and tell me you don't think he is being attacked. That is the general rule I go by, if I post something about someone, how would I feel if someone said the exact same things about a family member or close friend of mine. Many have been attacks if you ask me.

 

[DuffMan]

The difference in assist per minuite ratio is 1 assist per 11 min for Lick, 1 assist per 9 min for Cully, not a huge difference.

Some players could be expected to play 40 min a game (or close to it). A true freshman PG who has to bring the ball up the court on nearly every posession is not one of them.

I love when people take two quotes from two different interviews and try to use them to point out some sort of contradiction. It reminds me of the Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Keith Oberman's of the world. Seriously get a grip.

If you can't figure out why Culley needs a breather then you need to stop posting. If you can't figure out why a bench player would get extended minuites in game that's the teams 3rd game in 7 days you need to stop posting.

The people banging hardest on this remind me of the people who banged the hardest on KF salary when we werent winning 9 games a year. They come of as jealous pot stirring blow hards who have nothing bettter to do than to look for reasons to rail on the BBall program.

 

[hawkeye12345]

Mtown - Devan Bawinkel can't play either...how's that? We have one scholarship player in Bawinkel and one walk-on that have less talent combined than most D1 players on any other team.

 

[imported_ankle23]

I've been reading the posts on this board for a while and have finally gotten to a point where I had to register so i could vent a little. I know we are all Hawk fans here and thus likely not very objective when we watch the games but you guys need to lay off John Lickliter. I doubt we would see all the negative posts about him if his last name was different. Where are all the "Devan Bawinkel couldn't play for any other D1 program" posts? Heck, he's a senior and I'm guessing he's on scholarship.
I remember the first time I saw John get in to a game. I think it was against Purdue. I thought it was going to be a disaster when he came into the game, but it wasn't. In fact, I saw him doing someting very basic in that game that Payne wasn't. He was facing the basket like you would expect any point guard to do. Before he came in Cully was backing the ball in from the point. It's pretty tough to see the court when you're looking over your shoulder.
I'm not in any way saying he's the future at point guard for the Hawks but he does what you expect your bench players to do. He gives the starters a rest and holds his own. By looking at the posts here you'd think he turns the ball over every three minutes and gets scored on every time down the court. Do we look like all stars when he's not on the floor and a JV squad as soon as he comes in? His A/T ratio is better than Payne's and I read a post on here that said it should be because he plays fewer minutes. What??? Where's the logic there? Maybe we should have a six man rotation at PG so we can get that number to about 4:1.
I'm just asking for a little objectivity here. Give the kid a break.

I'm with you on the sheep needing to lay off. But they are just the blind following the blind, who is following himself.

 

[hawkeyescott]

Some players could be expected to play 40 min a game (or close to it). A true freshman PG who has to bring the ball up the court on nearly every posession is not one of them.

If you can't figure out why Culley needs a breather then you need to stop posting. If you can't figure out why a bench player would get extended minuites in game that's the teams 3rd game in 7 days you need to stop posting.

Cully played 28 minutes, little Lick 24, that is more than giving him a breather. Gatens and May were the only 2 over 30 minutes, Fuller was in foul trouble and still played 26 minutes but why did Cole only play 13? It looks like the extra minutes little Lick got came from Cole and not giving Cully a "breather".

 

[SteveGarvey]

the assist to turnover thing is misleading. Sure John doesnt have many turnovers....maybe in part due to the fact he never takes the ball to the basket to get a shot or create a shot for a team mate. Its easy to never turn the ball over when you just pass it around the perimeter.

According to Iowa stats..John has 12 assists in 133 minutes this year.

Cully has 80 assists in 705 minutes.

Do the math.

12/133=.09
80/705=.11

Not a huge difference really. Use a different stat maybe next time to make your point.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/iowa/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/cumulative-stats.pdf

 

[urohawk]

I can only speak for myself here...but what concerns me is the indication from the presser that John will be playing meaningful minutes next year. Meaning that this might be a long-term plan and not a temporary fix. If that is the case it is very discouraging.

I have been concerned all year about the lack of depth at the PG position and how he is not bringing in any true PGs for next year. Cully has played well at times but he needs help. He probably should only be playing 25 minutes a game next year. If Coach thinks his son is the answer than I believe we are in trouble.

Let me be very clear here. If Cully Payne is starting PG next year I won't have a problem. If John is a third string point Guard I won't have a problem. But if there is not somebody(and I don't see anybody else on the roster) who can provide quality PG minutes next year I think it is the end of the Lickliter regime.

 

[JDavis11]

Cully played 28 minutes, little Lick 24, that is more than giving him a breather. Gatens and May were the only 2 over 30 minutes, Fuller was in foul trouble and still played 26 minutes but why did Cole only play 13? It looks like the extra minutes little Lick got came from Cole and not giving Cully a "breather".

I agree with you this is disturbing if it is a trend but this was the only game I can remember this happening. And Jarryd Cole simply refused to box out, DeShawn Sims was Rebounding on the offensive glass with ease over him. Imo Cole didn't give an performance/effort that deserved minutes Brommer and Cougill aren't quick enough for Sims (though they did get 27 minutes) and Fuller was in foul trouble. I believe the idea in putting in Lickliter was that he can at least dribble against the 1-3-1 defense which over the last game and a half we CLEARLY can't stand still, be shorter than the defenders, and pass with any success.

The only guys who can dribble on this team are Payne, Gatens and in 3rd place Lick (I don't even know who would be fourth Fuller? May?). Gatens had a sprained ankle. It's hard to win with one ball handler, I understand why we needed someone else it's just unfortunate that we have no depth.

I can't remember now but wasn't the lineup after Fullers foul around the 15 min mark in 2nd half Payne, May, Gatens, Cougill, Cole? I'm almost positive I remember Cole at least. Check out the play by play until the 11 minute mark which is when they took out Cole. Michigan had 5 OReb in 4 minutes.
Iowa Hawkeyes vs. Michigan Wolverines - Play by Play - January 30, 2010 - ESPN