Former Vikes coach Bud Grant on concussions

[westender]

Link to full article http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/31/...ngs-super-bowl-losses-vince-lombardi-disklike

Specific text related to concussion discussion:

The MMQB (question to Grant): As you know, the big reason they moved the kickoff was after they realized it was the most dangerous play in terms of concussions.



Grant: Then play tag football instead. Football is popular because of the collisions and the tackles and the running and jumping. That’s what the fans come to see; it’s entertainment. It’s not an exercise on how to avoid getting hit. I think there are certain safety measures that take care of the mental part of it, with players not looking to hit somebody in the head. They’ve done that. But let’s not take the entertainment value out of football. I will advocate that, and you can write it, but they are not going to listen to me. I have no stature or clout anymore.


The MMQB (question to Grant): At this point, they can’t make any rule changes that increase the risk of head injury, from a political standpoint.



Grant: Look, I’ve had concussions. I played football and I watched football, all my four boys played football, I’ve got grandsons who play football. My son is a high school football coach. At some point we’re going to have to get to the point where before you play football I’m going to test you at some stage in your life to determine if you’re susceptible to concussions. We need a test that shows us that your brain is situated a certain way that puts you at risk. If you are susceptible, don’t play football. They don’t talk about that, but we’re going to have to come to that point.
I’m not a doctor. All I know is that some guys take a lot of hits and there’s no evidence there’s any residual effect to being concussed, myself being one. I remember being carried off a field. I don’t remember, but I know it happened. Was I concussed? Sure. But maybe I’m not susceptible to the residuals. You remember what I’m telling you, because some day these things will happen and I will be proven right.

 

[trj]

Holy smokes.....Bud Grant is still alive he has to be pushing 100. All kidding aside, if greedy NFL owners hadn't spent so much time trying to hide all the concussion stuff. If they had just acknowledged there was an issue maybe, just maybe, we would have a test that would determine who was susceptible and who isn't.

Most NFL owners are 60,70, 80 years old the concussion issue won't affect their pocket book. But if they want their future generations to cash checks then they better be at the forefront of this concussion issue. At some point the TV rights money that bubble is going to burst.

 

[westender]

Holy smokes.....Bud Grant is still alive he has to be pushing 100. All kidding aside, if greedy NFL owners hadn't spent so much time trying to hide all the concussion stuff. If they had just acknowledged there was an issue maybe, just maybe, we would have a test that would determine who was susceptible and who isn't.

Most NFL owners are 60,70, 80 years old the concussion issue won't affect their pocket book. But if they want their future generations to cash checks then they better be at the forefront of this concussion issue. At some point the TV rights money that bubble is going to burst.

I don't think football is going away. We will all still watch and there will be kids that play. We will all understand the risk much better. Look at racing. People die and will always be someone that dies in racing but that hasn't bankrupted racing and it hasn't cut back on the number of quality race car drivers. It is going to happen and people still race. Each one has to believe it won't be them to function in the car and are driven by their competitive nature and money. It will get past this and players will know there is X% risk of long term concussion effects in some people who suffer them. How many concussions has Ben Roethlesberger had and he is still in there taking the beating even knowing that maybe 20 years from now it might not be such a great deal.

 

[Floridahawkeye1]

Wrong, bud. IMHO
You are swimming upstream.

 

[uihawk82]

Wrong, bud. IMHO
You are swimming upstream.

Bud Grant is very old so is probably very stubborn and has his old time values.

That is fine but the NFL really needs to make the head shot hits and leading with the helmet a more severe fine as well and 15 yard penalty.

This CTE situation is going to creep down into civil lawsuits at the college and high school level so soon better tackling and scrutiny will need to be measured. High schools and colleges are going to have to really keep track of concussions for long term liability.

I do hope they find out why maybe some people are more susceptible. I know that Tyler Sash was a crazy hard hitting safety at Iowa , probably was in high school and he was in th NFL, too bad it affected him so bad and so early.

 

[imported_ankle23]

Holy smokes.....Bud Grant is still alive he has to be pushing 100. All kidding aside, if greedy NFL owners hadn't spent so much time trying to hide all the concussion stuff. If they had just acknowledged there was an issue maybe, just maybe, we would have a test that would determine who was susceptible and who isn't.

Most NFL owners are 60,70, 80 years old the concussion issue won't affect their pocket book. But if they want their future generations to cash checks then they better be at the forefront of this concussion issue. At some point the TV rights money that bubble is going to burst.

i don't buy this logic that he presents- everyone is susceptible.

 

[Fryowa]

The first mistake you folks are making is listening to an 88 year old codger with no medical training talk about how CTE works.

 

[westender]

The first mistake you folks are making is listening to an 88 year old codger with no medical training talk about how CTE works.

What he is saying is they will figure out a means to determine if someone is susceptible, whether by scans or a genetic test, etc. At least then you know if you are at an elevated risk. You people that think football is just gonna die are crazy. $$$$$$ all about the $$$$$. We will all keep watching. Men will still play and will play tackle and accept risk and we will watch and the big hits will go on. Maybe make more types of hits illegal but if you think that will change much I doubt it. It's a very dangerous occupation. Some guys won't play or will quit and some will take their place and it will go on. Why isn't everyone in the NFL just quitting right now? They know the risk now if they supposedly didn't know getting hit in the freaking head wasn't bad for you 10 years ago, they surely know now but most play on and we watch. As it will be and ESPN will have the hardest hit highlights as always. Didn't they used to have a "jacked up" segment where they would show guys basically getting de-cleated?

 

[HawkInATX]

i don't buy this logic that he presents- everyone is susceptible.

Yep, this. It's just a game of probabilities. Every time you strap on your helmet, you're buying another lottery ticket. Only you don't find out if you "won" this lottery until much later. Even if there is a genetic predisposition, all that means is that some people have a higher chance of contracting CTE from the hits they take while playing. That doesn't mean that anybody is immune to it (they aren't).

 

[AreWeThereYet]

At this time they don't know if anyone has a predisposition toward concussions, or if it is an equal risk to all. They are at the point where they can say that damage is both accumulative and a result of especially traumatic single events. They can also say, your neurological status will often continue to deteriorate well after your playing years. Unfortunately, they can get only a limited amount of information from passive brain scans and only know the true extent of damage upon autopsy. Lack of information, while the individual is alive, leaves everyone in the dark about the particulars of how this condition progresses.

 

[Fryowa]

Why isn't everyone in the NFL just quitting right now?

Because money cash hoes.

 

[tksirius]

i don't buy this logic that he presents- everyone is susceptible.

THIS ^^^

 

[tm3308]

i don't buy this logic that he presents- everyone is susceptible.

That's actually the one thing he says that I can buy into. Not everyone is the same, and there are people who play long careers and haven't had issues. Same applies to people who use tobacco products; not all of them wind up with cancer. They're all susceptible to it, but some are more susceptible than others.

 

[westender]

Watched the ESPN special about the 1985 Bears and it was recent enough they were talking about CTE and Dave Duerson and had Jim McMahon also. All of the Bears they interviewed stated no matter what physical ailments any team members had, have now or will have they would all do it again. Didn't realize McMahon has to have routine adjustments to his neck so that the spinal fluid will flow more normally and get rid of the waste generated in the brain. I was indifferent at the time of that 1985 season toward the Bears. They were a tough group. Didn't realize Ditka left the reigns off during Super Bowl week and let the boys party. They all stated they knew they were going to beat the Patriots.

 

[HawkInATX]

That's actually the one thing he says that I can buy into. Not everyone is the same, and there are people who play long careers and haven't had issues. Same applies to people who use tobacco products; not all of them wind up with cancer. They're all susceptible to it, but some are more susceptible than others.

That's the thing, over years of research, experiments, and tons and tons of data we do know that there are genetic markers and environmental factors that influence susceptibility to cancer. But, that's cancer. CTE is not cancer, so you can't just say that some people are more susceptible than others. You can theorize that and then conduct research to see if that is the case. But that amount and depth of study hasn't been done on CTE. We just simply don't yet know if there are genetic predispositions or environmental factors that change somebody's likelihood of developing CTE. The one thing we do know is that repeated concussive and sub-concussive hits increase the probability. Outside of that, it's pretty much conjecture.

 

[Tierney]

That's the thing, over years of research, experiments, and tons and tons of data we do know that there are genetic markers and environmental factors that influence susceptibility to cancer. But, that's cancer. CTE is not cancer, so you can't just say that some people are more susceptible than others. You can theorize that and then conduct research to see if that is the case. But that amount and depth of study hasn't been done on CTE. We just simply don't yet know if there are genetic predispositions or environmental factors that change somebody's likelihood of developing CTE. The one thing we do know is that repeated concussive and sub-concussive hits increase the probability. Outside of that, it's pretty much conjecture.

I was wondering the other day of Ronald Reagan ever suffered from concussions while playing football. He died from alzheimers.

 

[Tierney]

I was wondering the other day of Ronald Reagan ever suffered from concussions while playing football. He died from alzheimers.

I just read where Ronald Reagan had a sever concussion from falling of a horse and had surgery. I don't know if he had any concussions playing football, but their does seem to be a correlation.

 

[Fryowa]

I just read where Ronald Reagan had a sever concussion from falling of a horse and had surgery. I don't know if he had any concussions playing football, but their does seem to be a correlation.

If you read any of the recent research it isn't concussions that are the main concern, it's repeated small impacts. Proportionally there are more lineman found to have CTE than there are any other position.

NFL teams average 65-70 snaps per game. So for offensive and defensive linemen that's 65-70 sub-concussive hits within a 3 hour period. Go smack your head against the wall 65 times once a week (even with a helmet on) and see how that ends up working out in the long run.

My main point is that people are focusing on concussions way too much and thinking that if they can do away with them that CTE will go away. Not true. Football as it's played today is going to keep producing Kosars and Seaus, period. It's a calculated risk and yes I still support the sport by paying to watch it. But please don't buy the horsesh*it the NFL's feeding you about concussions being the cause and prevention of them being the cure.

 

[Billso]

I've had several concussions and it's not affected my mental acuity or memory in any way.

I've had several concussions and it's not affected my mental acuity or memory in any way.

Tasty freeze, lugnut.