Final Coaches Poll Ballots Revealed

BlackNGold1982

Well-Known Member
Here’s the link:

Nice to see respect from Saban, Campbell, and Smart.

Coach O apparently doesn’t think we play football as we’re not even in the top 25.

Disrespected by Whinny as well.

The homerism by conference is hilarious.

Some good ballots and a lot of bullshit. Enjoy.
 
Niumatalolo's list (or whoever filled it out...) is borderline bizarre past the top ten.

Tulsa at #11, Louisiana at #12, Florida at #15 and Iowa State at #24?
 
If you think a P5 coach is going to waste 5 mins of his day filling one of these out you’re crazy.

That’s one of those things buried way deep on the list of annoying shit that has to get done and sent in weekly. Some staffer who picks up Saban and Swinney’s dry cleaning every week does that from their phone while they’re waiting in the Starbucks drive thru line.
 
I betcha the AP is only marginally more sensible.

The CFP rankings are probably the best because they seem to be more of the mindset of the NCAA selection committee - i.e. thinking in terms of "resume" - but, as we all know, even they are flawed.

I will get virtual bricks thrown at my head for saying this, but I would select something like the top (i.e. most accurate over a ~10 yr period) 3-5 predictive computer models and base the CFP seeding purely on that.

Two things here:

1. If you, like me, played the ever living crap out of the NCAA Football games back in the day, you know that the games did a pretty credible job of simulating the behavior of the real life "Top 25" polls. They did it with code of course and I think it would be very enlightening to see the formula(s) used, as they would have had to take into account the kinds of (IMO) silliness we as humans tend to apply to where college football teams should be ranked. Most notably, team prestige and the idea that teams can't/shouldn't be moved up or down too quickly. About the only thing you can say for this is that it essentially creates "smoothing" in the rankings, which creates a perception of credibility relative to the computer models, which themselves fluctuate relatively wildly throughout the open weeks of the season, but then calm down into very sensible (and demonstrably accurate) assessments as we move into the back half of the season. But even the CFP (wisely, IMO) doesn't release their polls until we are some ways into the season, because the CFP committee will tell you the same thing the people who code computer models will tell you: we don't have enough data yet to make these even worth looking at yet.

2. Going further, I think we like to keep humans involved in these rankings for the wrong reasons. The CFP committee may look at various computer models in making their decisions but, ultimately, it's a human poll. IMO, far and away the #1 reason, the real reason that we keep humans in the CFP loop: to protect the blue bloods and to make sure we keep the TV ratings up (which is of course closely related to "protect the blue bloods"). My point has been emphatically proven this year, because we have 1-loss Notre Dame team that, IMO, should be nowhere near the CFP...but they have something very special on their resume that only humans can see: they are a 1-loss Notre Dame team! Just for context, look at the end of season Sagarin top 10 (bolded are the CFP teams):

Alabama104.7711-0
Ohio State 97.376-0
Clemson96.9810-1
Oklahoma92.018-2
Georgia91.917-2
Florida90.518-3
Notre Dame88.8810-1
Texas A&M88.548-1
Iowa87.496-2
Iowa State86.518-3

If, for argument's sake, we had simply let the Sagarin model select the top 4, that fourth spot would go to Oklahoma (by the skin of their teeth). To get to Notre Dame, you have to skip over Oklahoma, Georgia, AND Florida.

When all is said and done, in practical terms, the value of the CFP this year is going to be to make Alabama "prove it". In other words, if Alabama wants to be National Champion, they are going to have to beat 2 very good football teams. If they do that, we outsiders may not necessarily be happy, but we'll at least sleep well knowing we are pretty sure we know who the best team in the land was this year. That said though, a CFP berth is worth an awful lot in terms of both monetary and prestige terms and I hate to see the system being used to help the rich get richer (Notre Dame). We have a serious "zero or 1 loss brand name team" fetish in college football that has screwed us (and will continue to screw us) out of a lot of good matchups over the years.
 
I betcha the AP is only marginally more sensible.

The CFP rankings are probably the best because they seem to be more of the mindset of the NCAA selection committee - i.e. thinking in terms of "resume" - but, as we all know, even they are flawed.

I will get virtual bricks thrown at my head for saying this, but I would select something like the top (i.e. most accurate over a ~10 yr period) 3-5 predictive computer models and base the CFP seeding purely on that.

Two things here:

1. If you, like me, played the ever living crap out of the NCAA Football games back in the day, you know that the games did a pretty credible job of simulating the behavior of the real life "Top 25" polls. They did it with code of course and I think it would be very enlightening to see the formula(s) used, as they would have had to take into account the kinds of (IMO) silliness we as humans tend to apply to where college football teams should be ranked. Most notably, team prestige and the idea that teams can't/shouldn't be moved up or down too quickly. About the only thing you can say for this is that it essentially creates "smoothing" in the rankings, which creates a perception of credibility relative to the computer models, which themselves fluctuate relatively wildly throughout the open weeks of the season, but then calm down into very sensible (and demonstrably accurate) assessments as we move into the back half of the season. But even the CFP (wisely, IMO) doesn't release their polls until we are some ways into the season, because the CFP committee will tell you the same thing the people who code computer models will tell you: we don't have enough data yet to make these even worth looking at yet.

2. Going further, I think we like to keep humans involved in these rankings for the wrong reasons. The CFP committee may look at various computer models in making their decisions but, ultimately, it's a human poll. IMO, far and away the #1 reason, the real reason that we keep humans in the CFP loop: to protect the blue bloods and to make sure we keep the TV ratings up (which is of course closely related to "protect the blue bloods"). My point has been emphatically proven this year, because we have 1-loss Notre Dame team that, IMO, should be nowhere near the CFP...but they have something very special on their resume that only humans can see: they are a 1-loss Notre Dame team! Just for context, look at the end of season Sagarin top 10 (bolded are the CFP teams):

Alabama104.7711-0
Ohio State97.376-0
Clemson96.9810-1
Oklahoma92.018-2
Georgia91.917-2
Florida90.518-3
Notre Dame88.8810-1
Texas A&M88.548-1
Iowa87.496-2
Iowa State86.518-3

If, for argument's sake, we had simply let the Sagarin model select the top 4, that fourth spot would go to Oklahoma (by the skin of their teeth). To get to Notre Dame, you have to skip over Oklahoma, Georgia, AND Florida.

When all is said and done, in practical terms, the value of the CFP this year is going to be to make Alabama "prove it". In other words, if Alabama wants to be National Champion, they are going to have to beat 2 very good football teams. If they do that, we outsiders may not necessarily be happy, but we'll at least sleep well knowing we are pretty sure we know who the best team in the land was this year. That said though, a CFP berth is worth an awful lot in terms of both monetary and prestige terms and I hate to see the system being used to help the rich get richer (Notre Dame). We have a serious "zero or 1 loss brand name team" fetish in college football that has screwed us (and will continue to screw us) out of a lot of good matchups over the years.
Damn. It is so annoying when someone thinks carefully about a topic, then presents a measured, rational view based on clear evidence. You should be ashamed.
 
People can do all the analysis they want and offer all the explanations in the world, but isn't it just easier to say the CFP is bullshit until there are defined qualifiers and an 8 team field?
Oh, I think that's exactly it - "defined qualifiers" is the key phrase because, as it is right now, you've got a bunch of stiffs in suits trying to pick the 4 best teams based on "reasons". I would rather just let the computers do it IF we're just trying to make a reasonable guess at the four (or 8) best teams - the computer models are going to do a better (and fairer job).

But I said IF. I think a "defined qualifiers" type setup could be a lot more fun and, in a sense, more fair because everyone would know what the criteria was right from week 1. As it stands today, it's more like "win every game and hope for the best".

Just for fun, what if you did a 12 team NFL-style bracket. Take the five P5 champions, the 5 mid major champions, and then the two highest ranked at-larges (based on a composite of computer models). Seed them all based on the composite computer model rankings.

This year it might look something like this (I'm just using Sagarin because that's the one I tend to look at myself and I'm lazy but, again, I think you should use a composite of maybe ~5 of the proven best computer models). Note the Sun Belt championship game was canceled due to covid this year, so I'm just pretending Coastal Carolina won.

Qualifiers:

1. Alabama (SEC Champion, #1)
2. Ohio State (Big Ten Champion, #2)
3. Clemson (ACC Champion, #3)
4. Oklahoma (Big XII Champion, #4)
5. Georgia (At large, #5)
6. Florida (At large, #6)
7. Cincinnati (American Champion, #14)
8. Oregon (Pac 12 Champion, #17
9. Coastal Carolina (Sun Belt, #42)
10. San Jose State (Mountain West Champion, #60)
11. Ball State (MAC Champion, #76)
12. UAB (C-USA Champion, #78)

Bracket - top 4 seeds need to win 3 games, seeds 5 thru 12 need 4 games.
cfp-12-team.jpg
 
If, for argument's sake, we had simply let the Sagarin model select the top 4, that fourth spot would go to Oklahoma (by the skin of their teeth). To get to Notre Dame, you have to skip over Oklahoma, Georgia, AND Florida.

a CFP berth is worth an awful lot in terms of both monetary and prestige terms and I hate to see the system being used to help the rich get richer (Notre Dame). We have a serious "zero or 1 loss brand name team" fetish in college football that has screwed us (and will continue to screw us) out of a lot of good matchups over the years.

I agreed with most of what you said and do find a great deal of logic and value in your post and believe it was very well thought out. With that said I have two major issues, unless I'm misunderstanding your thought process, which could easily be the case as my brain is currently fried at the office.

Disclaimer: As most of you know I absolutely hate, and I mean hate, all things ND football related so even thinking and typing this is very difficult for me to do.

If reading this right I'm not sure how there's an argument that Oklahoma, Georgia, or Florida belong in the playoffs over ND. I can however see the argument for Texas A&M, but I see no ground for the other programs. Covid absolutely wreaked havok on football this fall, so I don't think its fair to punish ND for beating Clemson when Lawrence was out and their only loss was to that very same Clemson team in the ACC title game. In the event Oklahoma, Florida, and Georgia only had one loss, I think that would be fair to give them the nod, but in Sagarin's top 10 there were only 3 1 loss teams and not a single one of the teams ranked above ND had a better win on paper then ND did against Clemson or lost to a team better than Clemson. Florida lost to a bad LSU team (despite respectable losses to Bama and ATM), Georgia's big wins were against a 6-4 Auburn team and a 3-7 Tennessee team and I guess you could throw a 5-5 Missouri team, and Oklahoma's losses were Kansas State and Iowa state.

So I don't know that the "zero or one loss brand name fetish" plays a role this year. It may have in the past, but I think the only way you take ND out of the mix would be by replacing them with Texas A&M. As much as I loathe ND, I simply don't think you can replace ND with any of those 3 teams. That said based on OSU's lack of games and the eye test of the teams they beat other than Indiana, I think the argument could be that if it came down to ND or OSU on the outside looking in, I simply don't see anyone can say OSU proved they belong there.
 

Latest posts

Top