current punt rule is garbage

[gohawkz]

Just watched Marshall's special teams make a great play that didn't help them. Their punt land and bounced in the endzone and the Marshall player jumped in the air and batted it back into the field of play. But it's a touchback and goes to the 20.

This is what special teams should be trying to, if you don't want to reward good punting and punt coverage just take away punting altogether.

I know that the rule now states that it's a touchback when the ball crosses the plane, but I think that's a stupid rule and needs to be changed.

I know it used to be different, anyone know when they made this change?

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Did another player touch it after he did?

 

[gohawkz]

Yeah, while in the air the player tapped it back into play and another Marshall player downed it on the 1 yard line. That didn't matter since the ball had already broke the plane it's a touchback.

When I was growing up that was a great play, now it's meaningless. Not sure when the rule changed, for all I know it's been like that for years but I know recently I've seen a few examples.

 

[burky247]

It's not garbage. There's an invisible line that extends above the goal line. Once the ball crosses that line, the ball is dead. Seems logical to me.

Besides, Marshall was flagged for holding on that play anyway. Wouldn't have mattered.

 

[DwayneTwill]

I think it's a good rule. It'll force those guys to get down there sooner so they can bat it back before it crosses the goal line. Also encourage punters to be more accurate. Should make these plays even more exciting.

 

[tm3308]

You're right, when a ball carrier reaches the ball over the goalline without actually setting foot on the (In our case) black turf, it shouldn't be a touchdown. Honestly, when it crosses the plane, it's dead, and should be.

 

[burky247]

Pretty good game though. You have to feel for the Marshall RB that fumbled the ball at the WV 5 yard line. The game completely turned after that. That and Marshall playing that awful prevent defense.

 

[gohawkz]

It's not garbage. There's an invisible line that extends above the goal line. Once the ball crosses that line, the ball is dead. Seems logical to me.

Besides, Marshall was flagged for holding on that play anyway. Wouldn't have mattered.

Yes, I understand the rule...I just think it needs to be changed. Rules are changed yearly, this should be one of them.

Here's some of my reasons.

-On very close plays it can be hard to tell if it broke the plane. It's much easier to see if a player's foot is in the Endzone then a ball flying 8 feet in the air. Wanting to go with a rule that would increase the likelihood of controversy and missed calls doesn't seem smart.

-I'm a fan of well played football and I love special teams. I think that if a special team player can save the ball from the endzone with a great play he should be rewarded.

-And selfishly, I'm a fan of Kirk Ferentz and the Hawkeyes. He has traditionally had teams that emphasized field position and defense. We don't hesitate to punt and try to pin them down deep. The way it is now makes it harder to do that. This rule hurts teams like Iowa.

If there's reasons that you think the current rule is better please fill me in.

 

[burky247]

Yes, I understand the rule...I just think it needs to be changed. Rules are changed yearly, this should be one of them.

Here's some of my reasons.

-On very close plays it can be hard to tell if it broke the plane. It's much easier to see if a player's foot is in the Endzone then a ball flying 8 feet in the air. Wanting to go with a rule that would increase the likelihood of controversy and missed calls doesn't seem smart.

-I'm a fan of well played football and I love special teams. I think that if a special team player can save the ball from the endzone with a great play he should be rewarded.

-And selfishly, I'm a fan of Kirk Ferentz and the Hawkeyes. He has traditionally had teams that emphasized field position and defense. We don't hesitate to punt and try to pin them down deep. The way it is now makes it harder to do that. This rule hurts teams like Iowa.

If there's reasons that you think the current rule is better please fill me in.

I guess I just don't see how changing that rule makes the game more exciting. Seems like a senseless change to me. Especially if it sets a new a new precedent regarding the goal line. Also, I don't see that the current rule has hurt Iowa a bit. With the punters that we have had over the years, the current rule actually is an advantage for Iowa. The way a punter like Donahue can deaden a ball within the five without hardly needing someone to down it...well there aren't a lot of college punters who can do it consistently. You change the rule(the way you want it)and it gives other teams another way to down the ball.

 

[burky247]

Of course, now that I think of it, on kickoffs the ball isn't dead when it crosses the goal line. So I guess it wouldn't be anything new on the goal line front.

Ah what the hell. Change it if you want.

 

[rodg12]

Don't like this rule. Should be able to tap it back as long as the player and the ball have not already touched the goalline.

 

[silvanthalas]

A worse rule is that in college you don't get the benefit of momentum.

I recall last year we had an INT just outside the goal line, and momentum carried our guy into the end zone, yet the ball came out instead of being a touchback.

 

[tm3308]

Of course, now that I think of it, on kickoffs the ball isn't dead when it crosses the goal line. So I guess it wouldn't be anything new on the goal line front.

Ah what the hell. Change it if you want.

The difference is that kickoffs can't be downed by the coverage team.

 

[DDThompson]

Is the ball dead when it crosses the plane of the sideline?

On the goal line, I can understand the ball being dead when a ball carrier breaks the plane - he has possession. There is no possession on a punt.

Is the ball dead when it is fumbled forward and crosses the plane of the sideline?

 

[PJHawk]

A worse rule is that in college you don't get the benefit of momentum.

I recall last year we had an INT just outside the goal line, and momentum carried our guy into the end zone, yet the ball came out instead of being a touchback.

Don't recall last year but I do remember Bradley Fletcher fell victim to that rule at the two yard line vs Illinois in 2008.

 

[tm3308]

Is the ball dead when it crosses the plane of the sideline?

On the goal line, I can understand the ball being dead when a ball carrier breaks the plane - he has possession. There is no possession on a punt.

Is the ball dead when it is fumbled forward and crosses the plane of the sideline?

When the ball is fumbled forward, it is marked at the spot of the fumble. On punts when the ball goes out of bounds (crosses the plane of the sideline), the officials make their best estimate as to where it crossed the plane, and mark it there.

 

[CAARHawk]

What about if a receiver jumped up in the field of play and batted a ball that had gone over the endline of the endzone back into the field of play and some one else caught it? It would be a touchdown.

But, when a pass is thrown out of bounds and no one catches it, the play is dead when the ball crosses the plane, ala Colt McCoy's late pass against Nebby. Basically, the invisible boundary line is inconsistent.

Should be that the invisible boundary exists, but a player having established himself in the field of play is in the field of play until he establishes himself out of the field of play. Same rule applies to any ball the player touches. Also, the goal line rule should only count for a ball in possession.

 

[DDThompson]

When the ball is fumbled forward, it is marked at the spot of the fumble. On punts when the ball goes out of bounds (crosses the plane of the sideline), the officials make their best estimate as to where it crossed the plane, and mark it there.

I don't know why I put in "forward". Even I knew that (duh).

The fumbled ball is not "dead" when it passes the sideline? Only when it touches the ground?

A defensive player can bat it back into the field of play trying to gain possession. A punt/coverage team could do the same on a muff if the ball crossed the plane of the sidelines.

Just seems odd that a non-possession ball breaking the sideline plane is still actionable, but a non-possession ball breaking the goal plane is dead. Of course, "possession" for punt team occurs at the moment of the punt so while similar in that there is no player possession, it's not the same because there is team possession.

 

[tm3308]

I don't know why I put in "forward". Even I knew that (duh).

The fumbled ball is not "dead" when it passes the sideline? Only when it touches the ground?

A defensive player can bat it back into the field of play trying to gain possession. A punt/coverage team could do the same on a muff if the ball crossed the plane of the sidelines.

Just seems odd that a non-possession ball breaking the sideline plane is still actionable, but a non-possession ball breaking the goal plane is dead. Of course, "possession" for punt team occurs at the moment of the punt so while similar in that there is no player possession, it's not the same because there is team possession.

I think that last point is the key. Because physical possession is not required on punts in order for a team to take "possession", once it's crossed the goalline it's no different than a player taking a knee.

And about the forward fumble, I did forget to clarify that they spot it at the point of the fumble if it is fumbled out of bounds (a la Matt Leinart vs. Notre Dame in 2005). Otherwise it's a live ball.

 

[tm3308]

What about if a receiver jumped up in the field of play and batted a ball that had gone over the endline of the endzone back into the field of play and some one else caught it? It would be a touchdown.

But, when a pass is thrown out of bounds and no one catches it, the play is dead when the ball crosses the plane, ala Colt McCoy's late pass against Nebby. Basically, the invisible boundary line is inconsistent.

Should be that the invisible boundary exists, but a player having established himself in the field of play is in the field of play until he establishes himself out of the field of play. Same rule applies to any ball the player touches. Also, the goal line rule should only count for a ball in possession.

IIRC, the play was dead once that pass hit something out of play (ground, player on the bench, the stands, etc.), not when it crossed the plane of the sideline. I could be wrong on that one, but I do remember that there was a second or two left when the ball hit the ground.