Clayborn/Suh

[tm3308]

There was a thread about Clayborn being ranked the #2 player and #1 DE in the country on rivals over at CF. Obviously they don't think that Clayborn is as good as Suh. I posted and offered this assessment, and I'm curious as to whether you guys agree with it:

I think the best way to put this is: can Clayborn potentially be just as much of a game-changer this year as Suh was last year? I do think so (though I am a little biased). BUT Clayborn plays defensive end. It's easier to dominate a game from the DE spot than it is for a DT like Suh. So Clayborn could have just as big of an impact, but I don't think he's as good as Suh because he's at a position that makes his will easier to impose. Fair enough?

 

[whammer33024]

what's your reasoning that he's not as good as suh?

 

[Cyclones17]

Clayborn is a stud. Suh is a once in every 15 year DT though. Much more rare than a stud DE.

 

[tm3308]

what's your reasoning that he's not as good as suh?

I just feel that what Suh was able to do was far more impressive because of the position he plays. DT's aren't supposed to dominate the way he did. DE's have an easier time effecting the game. With that said, Clayborn's impact wasn't any greater than Suh's last year. MAYBE equal, but not greater.

 

[whammer33024]

fair enough. i was just curious. this year, i think clayborn will more than equal suh's impact of last year. just my opinion

 

[hawkinaclownhouse]

I just feel that what Suh was able to do was far more impressive because of the position he plays. DT's aren't supposed to dominate the way he did. DE's have an easier time effecting the game. With that said, Clayborn's impact wasn't any greater than Suh's last year. MAYBE equal, but not greater.

I actually think it is just as easy to dominate from the DT as it is from the DE position. At DE the other team can run away from your side as Georgia Tech did in the 2nd half of the Orange Bowl eliminating your ability to make plays. The DT is closer to all running plays and the DEs at Neb played to turn everything back inside to Crick and Suh.

Additionally, teams can line up the TE on Clayborn's side and double team him just as easily as a DT.

Several times last year you could tell that Clayborn was not going all out to the QB but was in more of a read and react, gap responsibility type of scheme eliminating the scramble.

One more thing Suh had another potential 1st round DT lined up right next to him and while Klug is good no one is going to confuse him with Crick from Neb (some have him as the #2 DT in college football this year).

 

[tm3308]

I actually think it is just as easy to dominate from the DT as it is from the DE position. At DE the other team can run away from your side as Georgia Tech did in the 2nd half of the Orange Bowl eliminating your ability to make plays. The DT is closer to all running plays and the DEs at Neb played to turn everything back inside to Crick and Suh.

Additionally, teams can line up the TE on Clayborn's side and double team him just as easily as a DT.

Several times last year you could tell that Clayborn was not going all out to the QB but was in more of a read and react, gap responsibility type of scheme eliminating the scramble.

One more thing Suh had another potential 1st round DT lined up right next to him and while Klug is good no one is going to confuse him with Crick from Neb (some have him as the #2 DT in college football this year).

I'm holding out judgement on Crick at this point. I want to see how good he looks without Suh before I consider him elite. And he may have had a tremendous impact on Suh's production, but I'm going to wait and see. But by the same hand that Suh had Crick, Clayborn had Klug, Ballard, AND Binns. It's pretty difficult to focus on one guy when there are four who can tear you apart.

I do agree that Suh's impact on the running game is less impressive than Clayborn's for the reason you gave. However, the Big 12 is a pretty pass-happy league, and he was a dominant pass rusher as well. THAT is not so easy to do from the DT spot.

 

[hawkinaclownhouse]

I'm holding out judgement on Crick at this point. I want to see how good he looks without Suh before I consider him elite. And he may have had a tremendous impact on Suh's production, but I'm going to wait and see. But by the same hand that Suh had Crick, Clayborn had Klug, Ballard, AND Binns. It's pretty difficult to focus on one guy when there are four who can tear you apart.

I do agree that Suh's impact on the running game is less impressive than Clayborn's for the reason you gave. However, the Big 12 is a pretty pass-happy league, and he was a dominant pass rusher as well. THAT is not so easy to do from the DT spot.

I don't disagree that Suh had a great senior season, but his stats went up appreciably from his Junior year to his senior year. Clayborn had a much stronger Junior season than Suh. The question is can he back it up with an even stronger senior year.

Clayborn plays the right defensive end and typically goes against the best O-line from the other team. Suh did not go against Trent Williams from Oklahoma for Russell Okung from Okie State as they play left tackle.

 

[Cyclones17]

To compare stats is silly. 2 different positions. There are typically 3 DE's of Clayborn's caliber each year in college football. There hasn't been a DT as dominant as SUH in 10 years.

 

[hawkinaclownhouse]

To compare stats is silly. 2 different positions. There are typically 3 DE's of Clayborn's caliber each year in college football. There hasn't been a DT as dominant as SUH in 10 years.

We shall see because the #3 pick in the draft was a DT from Oklahoma who some had rated as high as Suh. So Suh may not be clearly the best DT in this draft let alone the past 10 years.

 

[DexterMorgan]

as right defensive end you are also going up against (usually) the best lineman on the opposing team.

 

[Cyclones17]

We shall see because the #3 pick in the draft was a DT from Oklahoma who some had rated as high as Suh. So Suh may not be clearly the best DT in this draft let alone the past 10 years.

I could care less what Suh does in the NFL. In college he was the most dominant DT in the last 10 years. Same for QB's like Tommie Frazier, Tim Tebow, Danny Weurfel, etc (I'm sure I spelled that wrong). All time great college players that didn't or won't do squat in the NFL. Doesn't change that they were a once every couple years type player.

And I think Suh is going to be a stud

 

[whammer33024]

wasn't tommie frazier followed up pretty closely by eric crouch?

 

[Cyclones17]

wasn't tommie frazier followed up pretty closely by eric crouch?

I called Tommie Frazier a once every couple years player. You see more players of his caliber that stand out at the QB position than you see a DT stand out. IMO Suh is like Orland Pace. You don't see guys like them come around very often if ever.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

what's your reasoning that he's not as good as suh?

He didn't play in the Big 12, duh.

 

[hawkinaclownhouse]

I called Tommie Frazier a once every couple years player. You see more players of his caliber that stand out at the QB position than you see a DT stand out. IMO Suh is like Orland Pace. You don't see guys like them come around very often if ever.

I would take Jonathan Ogden over Orlando Pace in college and the pros (1 year apart in the draft) so not a once in a decade player either.

Suh is very good and had a great year but I do not consider someone who only had one great season a once in a decade level player. If he as a 2 or 3 time All-American then yeah once in a decade Suh wasn't even 1st team all-conference per the coaches as a Junior.

 

[whammer33024]

remember when adrian had a blocked punt, scoop and score on the same play against penn state?

that...that was awesome

 

[Cyclones17]

I would take Jonathan Ogden over Orlando Pace in college and the pros (1 year apart in the draft) so not a once in a decade player either.

Suh is very good and had a great year but I do not consider someone who only had one great season a once in a decade level player. If he as a 2 or 3 time All-American then yeah once in a decade Suh wasn't even 1st team all-conference per the coaches as a Junior.

Did you watch Suh play?

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Did you watch Suh play?

I don't see anything in that post that is ripping Suh as a player. Merely noting that as a junior, Suh wasn't nearly as impressive as Clayborn.

Suh had a great senior year and turned into a 50 million dollar contract. Good for him.

 

[Cyclones17]

I don't see anything in that post that is ripping Suh as a player. Merely noting that as a junior, Suh wasn't nearly as impressive as Clayborn.

Suh had a great senior year and turned into a 50 million dollar contract. Good for him.

He was great as a junior too. DT's aren't suppose to have the #'s Suh did as a senior. It's unheard of. But he was just as impressive as Clayborn his junior year