Big Ten Stats Tell the Tale

C

CAARHawk

Banned
Looking at the Big Ten stats really shows what this team needs to add to get to the next level next year. Basabe, Cartwright, Gatens, and May show up as stats leaders in a nice variety of stats, including scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, 3 pt shooting, FT shooting. What is missing? The traditional post stats. The Hawks need a guy who can come in and get in the stats leader list for blocked shots and rebounds. Can't just rely on Basabe to carry the entire load on the front line. He needs a partner who can get on those lists with him. And preferably, get in front of him in one or two categories.

But it really is remarkable how productive that kid has been from day one.
 
There are not many, if any traditional posts in this league, or any league. Sullinger is close this year. Johnson for Purdue controls the paint too but I dont see him as a traditional post. I guess it depends on your definition
 
I don't know if a total package guy is out there for us. But at minimum, we need (enter recruit's name here)'s Erik Hansen to Basabe's Brunner. Because you're right, we can't force Basabe to carry the load.

That said, I think that Brommer/Archie (particularly Archie) could be that guy next year, if they improve as much as they did from last year to now.
 
It is really hard to go from not showing up on the list at all to being a statistical leader, particularly when you are going into your senior year. That is asking a lot. I could see one or the other showing up in the lower tier of either stat, but I can't imaging them jumping from nowhere to stat leader.

In response to Jon, I didn't say a traditional post, I said a guy who could rank on both of the traditional post stats (total rebounds and blocks).

BTW: I was responding to TM, not Shane and Eddy:) I would have to see some tape before I evaluated either of you.
 
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I've got mad hops if somebody can somehow transform my body back to the way it was in the early 90's.
 
GravyJones said:
I've got mad hops if somebody can somehow transform my body back to the way it was in the early 90's.
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If anyone figures out a way to do that sometime before the beginning of next week, let me know. Still need to get the wife a Valentine's gift.
 
CAARHawk said:
It is really hard to go from not showing up on the list at all to being a statistical leader, particularly when you are going into your senior year. That is asking a lot. I could see one or the other showing up in the lower tier of either stat, but I can't imaging them jumping from nowhere to stat leader.

In response to Jon, I didn't say a traditional post, I said a guy who could rank on both of the traditional post stats (total rebounds and blocks).

BTW: I was responding to TM, not Shane and Eddy:) I would have to see some tape before I evaluated either of you.
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I'm a 41 year old, 6'1.5" true center, with a Victor Alexander body and no hops, but as a kid I developed a killer "Kevin McHale" turn around jumper to the opposite shoulder AND a sky hook! I'm not afraid to D up and I get good rebounding position (they don't call me "The Fanny Pack" for nothing!)...and if I play 40 minutes I think I could easily get the Hawks 1.7 and...1.7, aka "the single/single"...:mad:

That is, if I don't die sometime around trip number 2 up and down the court...:eek:
 
CAARHawk said:
It is really hard to go from not showing up on the list at all to being a statistical leader, particularly when you are going into your senior year. That is asking a lot. I could see one or the other showing up in the lower tier of either stat, but I can't imaging them jumping from nowhere to stat leader.

In response to Jon, I didn't say a traditional post, I said a guy who could rank on both of the traditional post stats (total rebounds and blocks).

BTW: I was responding to TM, not Shane and Eddy:) I would have to see some tape before I evaluated either of you.
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Archie was always going to be a project, and I think he's got the physical ability to do the job. It's a big if, but if Fran can get the most out of Archie's game for next season, I think we might be pleasantly surprised at what he can do defensively.

He probably won't lead the conference in either category, but I don't think that's necessary (after all, only one player can do that, and there's plenty of other teams that can beat anyone in the country), especially for the complementary player. Sullinger is tied for the lead in rebounding, but isn't in the top 11 for blocked shots. Where Dallas Lauderdale is 3rd in blocks, but isn't in the top 9 for rebounding. Basabe is a guy that eventually will compete for rebounding titles. All he needs is a little more bulk. He's got the athleticism and tenacity to really shine. And he does a good job blocking shots, too. But Archie could be an Erek Hansen-type player. Hansen never came close to leading in rebounding, but between him and Brunner, we dominated the paint.

If he could come the can come anywhere near leading those categories, I think we take the next step forward. That's not going to be making a run at a conference title. The next step is getting good enough to really have something to sell recruits on. Rather than asking them to help us rebuild from scratch, be able to sell them on the fact that the foundation has been laid, the hardest part is behind us.
 
I really don't see Archie jumping Brommer. I agree that Mel can be a leader in some of those categories. What I am saying is he needs a running mate in the paint to also be in the top 10 in some power categories. Asking one guy to do it all with repect to the front line stats is asking too much. Your example of OSU is a good one. We need a guy who can top five in one key power stat and at least show up on the list for another.

I really think Andrew's best chance for being a key contributor is to keep developing the role he is playing right now. He could really end up being a nice spark plug off the bench, who could help the team as a starter when it is best to go big.
 
CAARHawk said:
I really don't see Archie jumping Brommer. I agree that Mel can be a leader in some of those categories. What I am saying is he needs a running mate in the paint to also be in the top 10 in some power categories. Asking one guy to do it all with repect to the front line stats is asking too much. Your example of OSU is a good one. We need a guy who can top five in one key power stat and at least show up on the list for another.

I really think Andrew's best chance for being a key contributor is to keep developing the role he is playing right now. He could really end up being a nice spark plug off the bench, who could help the team as a starter when it is best to go big.
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I know what you're getting at, and overall I agree. It just seems that we disagree over which of the current players will fill that role.

Brommer seems like he could be the kind of guy that Cole would/should have been for us had we been better. That's not meant as a disrespect to Jarryd at all. Just that spark off the bench, full of hustle and effort, not going to back down from anyone. IF he develops (and I know that's a big if), I still think Archie would take the starting spot at C. But Hansen wasn't much good on the offensive end, either. He was in the lineup solely for his defensive presence, which is what Archie could provide.

Regardless, I hope they both reach their max potential under Fran next year, because both have more upside than they've been given credit for over the past couple years.

ICAlumni said:
We need Woodbury
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This is the real answer.
 
tm3308 said:
I know what you're getting at, and overall I agree. It just seems that we disagree over which of the current players will fill that role.

Brommer seems like he could be the kind of guy that Cole would/should have been for us had we been better. That's not meant as a disrespect to Jarryd at all. Just that spark off the bench, full of hustle and effort, not going to back down from anyone. IF he develops (and I know that's a big if), I still think Archie would take the starting spot at C. But Hansen wasn't much good on the offensive end, either. He was in the lineup solely for his defensive presence, which is what Archie could provide.

Regardless, I hope they both reach their max potential under Fran next year, because both have more upside than they've been given credit for over the past couple years.


This is the real answer.
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Yeah, I would like to think Archie could be that guy, but I just don't really have much faith in a guy who really hasn't made much of an impact at all to this point suddenly turning into a competitive starter. Also, I am not all that impressed with his D. He just doesn't seem to have a high BBall IQ. I mean watch him play and pay attention to how many times he just seems to not quite be in the right position.

Really does remind me more of Palmer than any other Hawk in recent memory. He's not Cy, he's not Duez, he's not Thomas, he's not Cole. He's pretty much Palmer. So, it's nice to hope he turns into one of those other guys, it would be a huge change.
 
CAARHawk said:
Yeah, I would like to think Archie could be that guy, but I just don't really have much faith in a guy who really hasn't made much of an impact at all to this point suddenly turning into a competitive starter. Also, I am not all that impressed with his D. He just doesn't seem to have a high BBall IQ. I mean watch him play and pay attention to how many times he just seems to not quite be in the right position.

Really does remind me more of Palmer than any other Hawk in recent memory. He's not Cy, he's not Duez, he's not Thomas, he's not Cole. He's pretty much Palmer. So, it's nice to hope he turns into one of those other guys, it would be a huge change.
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Definitely would be interesting to know how much better he'd be if Fran had been here the past few years. Brommer too. They've both shown flashes, and Brommer is at a higher level. Just hope that another year under Fran can get both of those guys to become solid Big Ten contributors. If he can do that, he deserves some kind of COY award. Brommer especially just looked hopeless a year ago.
 
Yeah, It sometimes is hard to remember these guys are really just kids. Lick's system works when you have extremely dedicated kids with astronomic basketball IQ's, and everybody buys into the program. Which means you have to be able to recruit those kids. If you can't recruit those kids, you are sunk.

Fran's system is different because it makes playing more fun. Which means you might see a guy without a high BBall IQ develop faster because he is enjoying himself. It really is incredible how many guys Lick's system chewed up while he was at Iowa.
 
JonDMiller said:
There are not many, if any traditional posts in this league, or any league. Sullinger is close this year. Johnson for Purdue controls the paint too but I dont see him as a traditional post. I guess it depends on your definition
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Sullinger is close? Sullinger is the definition of a traditional post. There aren't many kids who like to play with their back to the basket anymore like Sullinger does. Not to mention he has the footwork/post moves of a three year NBA player, not a college freshman.
 
HawkeyeMike23 said:
Sullinger is close? Sullinger is the definition of a traditional post. There aren't many kids who like to play with their back to the basket anymore like Sullinger does. Not to mention he has the footwork/post moves of a three year NBA player, not a college freshman.
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He's not that much of a shot blocker, though, which has to be part of a guys game to be a total package in the paint. His offensive game is great down low. And he rebounds extremely well. But he doesn't necessarily keep people out of the paint because of his shot blocking. Which is why he's very close to being the total package, probably the closest of anyone in the country. But he's not a finished product yet.
 
tm3308 said:
He's not that much of a shot blocker, though, which has to be part of a guys game to be a total package in the paint. His offensive game is great down low. And he rebounds extremely well. But he doesn't necessarily keep people out of the paint because of his shot blocking. Which is why he's very close to being the total package, probably the closest of anyone in the country. But he's not a finished product yet.
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Also his height hurts him when being considered a true center. He's only 6'9''.
 
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