Basabe appears to be legit
- Thread starter hawkeye12345
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HawksnWhiteSox
Well-Known Member
Excellent that he started off so well and he was so aggressive. Hope he continues this and it translates to success this season in the B10.
HawksnWhiteSox
Well-Known Member
I think one would have to try to do worse than Lick & company.
hawkeye12345
Well-Known Member
The issue with Lick & Co. wasn't player development it was players in general. The 'system' relied on players that wouldn't fit in the Big10 even with a shoehorn. If you notice a pattern over the past few months, you will see that we are recruiting kids with athleticism. Plus for the first time in almost a decade we finally have a full roster. This is especially critical when you are trying to build a team for the future. Some kids don't need to play 40 minutes any longer. The kids on the bench may not be superstars but they can at least fill in when necessary and give the top 5 - 7 players a little break. This will help the team psyche and allow players like May and Gatens to fill their role instead of trying to press their game so much. The biggest upgrade in the offseason was exactly where we needed it - PG.
Just like most, I am excited about getting the season started. I don't have high expectations in terms of wins and losses but the ship seems to be turning in the right direction. The next two recruiting classes are going to be key.
johnashawk
Well-Known Member
So, if we don't have kids that CAN play in the B10, then you're insinuating some of them are on our current roster? And, Larson and Brust aren't D1? Sorry, I disagree. He just wasn't able to get them to play up to their abilities.
Or, if you're referring to his inability to KEEP his players, that's a different matter.
A couple of thoughts.
1. Looking at the rosters of the PTL the competition is really pretty good. With so many UNI players (15), former Iowa players (Henderson, Price), current Iowa players with decent athletes like Malcom Moore and Murphy you really have some good competition. There is even a European pro player per the paper who had 18 points. If you had 8 teams it would be watered down but at six each team can put a starting five out there that would compete well in smaller division one conferences. Now the intesity isn't quite the same but the talent is close.
2. Marble and Basabe impressed me. Basabe showed more of a wing game than I was expecting. I don't know what position Basabe will play for sure because I don't have a great grasp on Fran's offense but based on what I saw it will be very hard to not start him. My bet would be Payne, May, Gatens, Basabe and Cole to start. Interior post defense probably wouldn't be very good with this group but it would be the best offensive group and allow more pressing. Cartwright, Marble, Brommer and Cougill in the regular rotation. McCabe might get limited minutes but it will depend on how much subbing Fran does. This is the most balanced roster we have had in 5 years. I can legimately say that when you scrimmage 5 on 5 every player should be there.
3. For those worried about two year fall off by firing Lick forget about it. The roster will be just as good this year if Lick would have stayed and might even be better. I believe Fuller would leave even if Lick stayed. Assuming nobody else would have left and Larson and Brust stay committed I still think the roster is better. I truly believe Basabe will be a much bigger boost to the roster than Larson would have been. Not saying Larson wouldn't have contributed but Basabe's skills were NEEDED. Also Lick would never have gone out and gotten several walkons to commit to bolster depth and it was very obvious he had no intention of signing a JC point guard.
1. Looking at the rosters of the PTL the competition is really pretty good. With so many UNI players (15), former Iowa players (Henderson, Price), current Iowa players with decent athletes like Malcom Moore and Murphy you really have some good competition. There is even a European pro player per the paper who had 18 points. If you had 8 teams it would be watered down but at six each team can put a starting five out there that would compete well in smaller division one conferences. Now the intesity isn't quite the same but the talent is close.
2. Marble and Basabe impressed me. Basabe showed more of a wing game than I was expecting. I don't know what position Basabe will play for sure because I don't have a great grasp on Fran's offense but based on what I saw it will be very hard to not start him. My bet would be Payne, May, Gatens, Basabe and Cole to start. Interior post defense probably wouldn't be very good with this group but it would be the best offensive group and allow more pressing. Cartwright, Marble, Brommer and Cougill in the regular rotation. McCabe might get limited minutes but it will depend on how much subbing Fran does. This is the most balanced roster we have had in 5 years. I can legimately say that when you scrimmage 5 on 5 every player should be there.
3. For those worried about two year fall off by firing Lick forget about it. The roster will be just as good this year if Lick would have stayed and might even be better. I believe Fuller would leave even if Lick stayed. Assuming nobody else would have left and Larson and Brust stay committed I still think the roster is better. I truly believe Basabe will be a much bigger boost to the roster than Larson would have been. Not saying Larson wouldn't have contributed but Basabe's skills were NEEDED. Also Lick would never have gone out and gotten several walkons to commit to bolster depth and it was very obvious he had no intention of signing a JC point guard.
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1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Lickliter seemed to have trouble keeping players in the program long enough to have a chance to develop them. Even today, for that reason, I have a hard time giving Lickliter a grade on "player development" because several players were Hawkeyes for a year, and then left. It would be easier to judge if players actually stuck around for 3-4 years, but that obviously didn't happen.
So I guess my official grade for Lickliter's player development skills would be "incomplete".
Back to the point - Basabe seems to be a great pickup for McCaffery!
rodg12
Well-Known Member
Doesn't that have to be a knock against his development record though?
Tmoney12
Well-Known Member
YESSSIR
DesMoinesHawki
Well-Known Member
I do think this kid will turn into a good player for the Hawks ... I just caution fans to not get too excited over what one of the Hawkeye players does in the primetime league. To this day, I still remember when one of my Hawk fan cronies was so eager to tell me how Sean Sonderliter was "tearing it up" in the Primetime league and watch out Big 10 ... Etc., etc.
Again, I do think he will be a nice player for the Hawks, just keep in mind these games are very much like glorified pick up games ... where defense is left in the locker room ...
While this is true, at the same point nobody is talking about Brommer tearing up this league, nor Archie, nor Cougs...you get my point. Skills translate, will he ever drop 36 in the big ten probably not, but the skills he flashes will.
hawkeye12345
Well-Known Member
Larson and Brust are not part of the Iowa program so there is no comparison to be made with those players - end of story. They haven't played a single minute of D1 basketball. Why try and compare two players with nothing to show as a comparison? One went to Fl and the other to Wisky, bfd. Both schools have players that never play on their squad and both of these guys could turnout to be those guys just as easy as they could be starters.
Am I insinuating that some are on our current roster? Not really. One graduated this year (hint: he only shot 3 pointers) and the other transferred out when his dad was fired (hint: he reminded most of us of ND's Rudy with less talent). Another has grade issues and may not even be play a single minute for the Hawkeyes. (hint: he redshirted and wasted a scholarship) Cole, Cougill, Brommer, May, Gatens and Payne are legit B10 guys albeit at different stages of development which rounds out the roster pre-2011 season. Cougill and Brommer may not turn out to be 30 minute plus guys but they still can handle the B10 competition when called upon.
I agree that while a rare player maybe either really good or really bad in PTL and the opposite in Big Ten play you can generally get a feeling from each player that is accurate. This is especially true now that the PTL only has 6 teams which is my point above. Really each team has at least 5 good players and pretty good height is present in the league.
Just looking at the current young Iowa players to help make some points.
Last year I think the general consensus on Cully in PTL was streak shooter, fairly quick to his left, good passer but turnover prone in PTL-Very accurate reflection of freshman year.
Gatens-seen him for 3 or 4 years in PTL. Solid player/good shooter. Will have trouble getting to the rim.-Very accurate
May-surprised a lot of people last year with his strength and athleticism. Everybody could see he was a streak shooter who really had no left hand. However with his body and jumping ability would make an impact. -Pretty accurate, maybe overestimated offensive contribuation a bit from PTL as he put up some pretty big numbers.
Bawinkle-did exactly what he did in Big Ten that he did in PTL. It wasn't like in PTL he was driving to the basket and throwing up reverses. -Very accurate
Brommer-Had trouble with footwork and finishing in PTL just like in Big Ten. He is quick. Pretty accurate maybe overestimated his contribution last year. He had the same troubles yesterday as well.
Cougill-You could tell he would struggle against quicker post players. No shot blocking. Good shooter but limited moves on the block. Part of this might be system under Lick but I think PTL demonstrated his skill set pretty well last year. Looks similar this year.
So my point is that you can get at least a pretty good idea what a player is capable of most of the time. Marble looked solid and ready to contribute (I think similar impact as Jake Kelly as a freshman) and Basabe looked better than any current player. This may overestimate based on one game but I would bet that Basabe will produce more as a freshman than Cully, May, or Gatens did. I would bet he averages 10 points a game at least.
I think on the realistic side of things Cougill, Archie and Brommer look to have made no strides in their games and our overall post play is going to be pretty poor this year. That is why I think Fran will have to play Basabe at the 4 to limit the minutes these three play and get May, Gatens and Basabe on the floor at the same time. It is really to bad that Lick redshirted Archie. By having both Archie and Brommer in the same class it really hurts the roster going forward. Having two 6'9" players in their junior year with almost no offensive skill really hurts your roster.
Our two recent red-shirts? JR Angle and Archie...two players who likely will never contribute on the floor. No wonder Iowa bb has floundered since 2006. Some fans keep hinting that Fran will have 4 schollys to work with next year,not 3...so who will be leaving early? Personally, if Archie cannot play a lot this year, he will have been given two years of education from Iowa coming from a juco,and that is enough..he should drop down and finish at a Div II like Palmer. We need an influx of guys who can contribute on the floor.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
I think one could easily say that. Absolutely.
I think Palmer of last year would play ahead of Archie, Cougill and Brommer of this year with Fran in charge. I think we need two bigs for next year. I am beginning to wonder if we take a Junior College player in 2011 if Archie doesn't make it due to grades or other reasons. I trust Fran a whole lot more with finding somebody who could help immediately than I did Lick. A Cyrus Tate player would put us in contention for a NCAA bid in 2011.
