Back court play next season - reason for hope

[SwirlinLingerie]

Our potential guard play gives me optimism next year. College basketball is absolutely all about your back court and ability to handle the ball. The Cinderellas in March Madness always have one thing in common - very good guard play.

It's also the reason why Dean Oliver was so much more important to the Hawkeyes than Luke Recker or Reggie Evans.

Cartwright and Payne aren't exactly BJ and Andre, but they are both scrappy competitors who handle the ball, penetrate, score and dish. Marble has a chance to be pretty decent in this regard, too. And next year, Gatens will be a salty senior guard with a ton of experience. He can't break every Big Ten defender down off the dribble, but he can handle the ball and find a way to the hole at times, too.

Can you recall the last time Iowa had four guards with average to good ability at handling the ball and scoring?

Perhaps you could make the argument of Haluska, Henderson, Horner and Pierce.

If May is able to substantially improve his ball handling, you have five guys in this category next season.

You go as your guards go in college basketball, and next year Iowa will have an interesting mix in their back court.

 

[rodg12]

I don't have much faith in Cully helping out that much. Maybe he can give Bryce enough of a blow to help him on both ends and also will allow Marble to shine more as a wing. But, I don't think Cully helps us much in the shot creation department. That's where our guard play has killed us at times this season.

 

[hawkfarmer]

I don't have much faith in Cully helping out that much. Maybe he can give Bryce enough of a blow to help him on both ends and also will allow Marble to shine more as a wing. But, I don't think Cully helps us much in the shot creation department. That's where our guard play has killed us at times this season.

i think that's a little unfair to Cully as all we have for a sample size is what he did under Lick. Now who knows if he can turn it on for Fran. I don't, but we'll have to see.

 

[MSGT1]

While they have improved their play greatly over the season, I still only see one guy on the current team that can consistently create his own shot, and that's BC. May can in certain situations, but not all and Marble can, depending on the match-up. Gatens, if he's on, is very good coming off screens and even occasionally hitting a jumper off the bounce. Cully, while a good game manager and distributor, isn't consistent is breaking down his opponent and creating his own shot.

That's why I think one of the PGs they've offered is so important for next year. They need someone else that can create off the bounce consistently, either to spell BC or be on the court with him. I do think Marble will be better at it when matched with a 2 or 3, just not when matched with a PG. He's long and athletic enough I think he can take most 2s and 3s.

 

[hawkIhoops]

We really don't know how high Payne's ceiling is because he played Lickliter ball on a really, really bad team. I don't think he is going to get 25 ppg like he did against Michigan in the tourney, nor do I think he will struggle like he did early this season due to his injury. Any help in the ballhandling department will be beneficial, as we flounder when Cartwright sits.

Gatens ceiling has been reached IMO. He is a decent stand still shooter when nobody is around him, but can't do anything off the dribble. When he drives it usually results in a block, charge, or a combination of the two. If he can develop a shot off 3-4 hard dribbles it would help. He is too easy to neutralize against teams that play in your face D. Great look against Indiana and he clanked it. Not expecting him to shoot lights out every night, but we need him to knock down key shots and it appears everyone on the team defers to Cartwright.

 

[rodg12]

i think that's a little unfair to Cully as all we have for a sample size is what he did under Lick. Now who knows if he can turn it on for Fran. I don't, but we'll have to see.

He has to be able to create off the bounce (break down his man off the dribble, drive to the basket or dish or knock down the mid-range jumper) better than May and Gatens for it to be an improvement at all next year. I'm just not sure he can do that. If all he can do is the same as Gatens/May, his only benefit will be giving Cartwright a blow and opening things up for Marble to play on the wing more, as I alluded to. I hope he proves me wrong next year. Brommer sure has this year.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Payne has a full season of experience as a full time PG in the BT. That's always a plus/positive. He was a true freshman and will be a redshirt sophomore. He's also a lefty which I always like. He'll contribute more than the vast majority think IMO.

 

[hawkeye12345]

Our potential guard play gives me optimism next year. College basketball is absolutely all about your back court and ability to handle the ball. The Cinderellas in March Madness always have one thing in common - very good guard play.

It's also the reason why Dean Oliver was so much more important to the Hawkeyes than Luke Recker or Reggie Evans.

Cartwright and Payne aren't exactly BJ and Andre, but they are both scrappy competitors who handle the ball, penetrate, score and dish. Marble has a chance to be pretty decent in this regard, too. And next year, Gatens will be a salty senior guard with a ton of experience. He can't break every Big Ten defender down off the dribble, but he can handle the ball and find a way to the hole at times, too.

Can you recall the last time Iowa had four guards with average to good ability at handling the ball and scoring?

Perhaps you could make the argument of Haluska, Henderson, Horner and Pierce.

If May is able to substantially improve his ball handling, you have five guys in this category next season.

You go as your guards go in college basketball, and next year Iowa will have an interesting mix in their back court.

Making statements like Dean Oliver being more important than Recker or Evans shows your limited basketball knowledge.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Making statements like Dean Oliver being more important than Recker or Evans shows your limited basketball knowledge.

I disagree. In my view, Oliver was as valuable as any member of Davis' last Sweet 16 team, and was the most important player on the squad his senior year, when Recker got hurt.

I think the following season showed Oliver/Evans had been a more dangerous combo than Recker/Evans. Evans struggled without an experienced guard consistently penetrating to break down the defense.

Had Recker never gotten hurt and maintained an ability to break down the defense, maybe things would have been different. The truth is he wasn't really that player at Iowa, at least not his senior year.

Also, thanks for the kind and thoughtful words regarding my limited basketball IQ. While I am sure it is relatively low, I didn't exactly read a Wooden-like explanation from you, either.

 

[hawkeye12345]

Wasn't trying to create a ******* match, truly wasn't. Dean Oliver was a really good PG at Iowa, one of the top 5 for sure without going back and comparing him to the rest of them. Woolridge, Lester, Armstrong, etc. He left Iowa as the #8 career scoring leader, #3 in Assists and #2 in steals. Some might argue that he ended his career ranked so high simply because he played in more games than most players but that also shows how good he truly was.

You must also keep in mind that throughout his career he had the chance to play with guys like Settles, Recker, Davis (yes that Davis), Bowen, Koch, McCausland, Worley, Boyd, Henderson, Evans, Thompson and Reiner. A supporting cast like that can make an average PG look pretty damn good.

Now to address your original point. We have some talent coming back at PG assuming Cully is healthy. We also have more experience since the Freshman will have a year under their belt but we also have HUGE question marks at the C position and very limited depth at the PF. We also don't have any slashers at the wing position outside of maybe Marble and I say maybe Marble because we haven't seen enough of him to know if this is something that he can do on a regular basis.

Unless we add some serious height and depth at the C and PF positions then we won't see much (if any) improvement in the overall W/L category next year.

 

[olivecourt]

Making statements like Dean Oliver being more important than Recker or Evans shows your limited basketball knowledge.

The 2000-2001 Hawkeyes went 23-12 and made the second round of NCAAs. The 2001-2002 Hawkeyes went 19-16 and lost in the first round of the NIT.

I hope you can use your expansive basketball knowledge to tell us what the primary difference was between those two teams.

 

[olivecourt]

You must also keep in mind that throughout his career he had the chance to play with guys like Settles, Recker, Davis (yes that Davis), Bowen, Koch, McCausland, Worley, Boyd, Henderson, Evans, Thompson and Reiner. A supporting cast like that can make an average PG look pretty damn good.

I like a lot of these guys, but the ones I highlighted were pretty much the definition of mediocre-to-average Big Ten players. As to Recker, DeanO played with him for a grand total of 15 games.

 

[hawkeye12345]

The 2000-2001 Hawkeyes went 23-12 and made the second round of NCAAs. The 2001-2002 Hawkeyes went 19-16 and lost in the first round of the NIT.

I hope you can use your expansive basketball knowledge to tell us what the primary difference was between those two teams.

Luck?

 

[hawkeye12345]

Maybe it had something to do with their coach?

 

[olivecourt]

Maybe it had something to do with their coach?

Not sure what you're getting at here. Did Steve Alford have a partial lobotomy after the 2001 tournament? That would explain a lot...

 

[ColumbusHawk]

I hope Payne is the 3rd point guard next year. Nothing against Cully, but that means McCaffery brings in someone he really likes at point guard.

Need more depth at point guard. Payne has been injured each of the last three years. Back injury his last year in high school. Even though he didn't miss any games last year, he suffered a sprained ankle in the preseason & missed some time.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Again, I am not saying Payne is Ronnie Lester. My point is that college basketball is all about guards.

People like to focus on our holes in the front court, but good guard play wins college basketball games. And Iowa may have some interesting depth there next year.

A great point guard and a bunch of odd pieces almost took down Kentucky's national title team a few years back. Or maybe Guy Rucker really was that good for one year.

 

[olivecourt]

A great point guard and a bunch of odd pieces almost took down Kentucky's national title team a few years back. Or maybe Guy Rucker really was that good for one year.

Don't you dare forget about Sean Sonderleiter and Ryan Hogan. Maybe the naysayers are right about your basketball knowledge, Swirlin. Try to spend a little more time breaking down film and a little less time chasing the muff around. Then we can talk some serious hoops.

 

[ForeverHawk]

If healthy, C. Payne will be a huge asset to the team next year. Cartwright and Payne will make a very good 1-2 punch at the point. Iowa would have a few more wins this year had Cully been healthy. Payne is much, much better than many people on here give him credit for! I am excited to have him back, so long as he is totally healthy!

 

[WindsorHawk]

Why in the world wouldn't Cully improve? Everyone else on the team has improved under the new staff. I think 2 years of maturing, etc. will also help. Cully will help plenty!