Don't get me wrong here but we have this amazing coaching trust on the bench that let a 21 point lead dwindle to 2 with 5 time outs left over. I am starting to question how smart this amazing coaching trust is. Against MSU with 20 seconds left we had the ball and a score would win the game and there was no timeout to set something up. What? We had 4 timeouts left in that game. Is Fran getting paid to preserve the TO's? I am at a loss. Are you freaking kidding me? What about the O not getting in the last half of the MSU game? He has a double/double the game before MSU and he is replaced by McCabe? Oleseni should be starting and that's not taking away from the effort of Woody, it's just that Oleseni bring much more to the table. I am a huge fan but how many coaches would blow 21 point lead and not call timeout after it was down to maybe 12 ?. I'm not knocking Fran alone, we have a million years of bench coaching experience and wouldn't you think one of the coaches would pull Fran aside and point out that we just blew a 21 point lead? Love the win, question the coaching decision.
1 Timeout?
- Thread starter RADMAN
- Start date
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
I never question coaching in a win. It's ridiculous.
Fran gets $5000 a game for each time out he doesn't use. Surprised you don't know this.
I disagree. I never question Fran at all because I love everything about him but just because you win doesn't mean mistakes weren't made.
LawVHawk
Well-Known Member
Use of timeouts is a red herring; you realize how many breaks are built into the game without either team using an allocated timeout?
Not taking a timeout did not cost Iowa the MSU game; Dev couldn't have had a more open look at the basket in that last play if Fran had diagrammed it a few seconds earlier.
Not using timeouts is basketball's equivalent of the no-huddle. With as many players as Fran uses and substitutes, there's really no reason near the end of close games to use them. Advantage Iowa.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I don't think using timeouts would have made much difference. I knew the run was coming. I knew it was going to be worse because White and Woodbury were on the bench until the 2nd half. The fact that the entire halftime break didn't really slow Illinois down suggests using a time out would not have helped.
Also, using the timeouts at any point allows the other team to rest. Our biggest advantage is to run the opponent ragged and beat them in the last few minutes of the game. I definitely think Illinois was fatigued in the latter stages of the game.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I agree that Fran should have used a timeout to kill the rally in the first half, especially after they drained that three to cut it to 7 as the crowd was into it and then Gesell turned the ball over. But in the MSU game I think not using the timeout was the right call as others have pointed out Marble had a clean look. Had you called a timeout you would have given them a chance to set up their defense.
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1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
Yes, if you are coaching a 5th grade traveling team you should take a timeout.
Timeouts at this level only allow the defense to have the advantage, as ssckelley pointed out. These guys have been around the block a time or two. A few hand signals and they know what the coaches want them to run. Or in Fran's case he can just scream it.
Timeouts at this level only allow the defense to have the advantage, as ssckelley pointed out. These guys have been around the block a time or two. A few hand signals and they know what the coaches want them to run. Or in Fran's case he can just scream it.
smhawk
Well-Known Member
It's not as simple as it allows the defense to setup and therefore you should not use timeouts for high pace offenses.
Momentum plays a crucial role in college basketball and in tournament play the single elimination magnifies this. Emotional swings and consecutive offensive And defensive lapse can void any original game plan strategies. Sometimes you need immediate coaching feedback or need to point out current weaknesses. Iowa needs more run killing timeouts.
While I normally like no timeouts last play, what is Frans record for teams scoring on last play of regulation with a tie or within 3? We usually run iso for someone but has that been effective? It's pry fine to run to go no time out against izzo at end but I'd still like to see a more set plays at end of games.
Momentum plays a crucial role in college basketball and in tournament play the single elimination magnifies this. Emotional swings and consecutive offensive And defensive lapse can void any original game plan strategies. Sometimes you need immediate coaching feedback or need to point out current weaknesses. Iowa needs more run killing timeouts.
While I normally like no timeouts last play, what is Frans record for teams scoring on last play of regulation with a tie or within 3? We usually run iso for someone but has that been effective? It's pry fine to run to go no time out against izzo at end but I'd still like to see a more set plays at end of games.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
While I don't mind not calling a TO at the end of the game with that much time and letting the players play, I'm a firm believer that TO's can and should be used to prevent/end a run. While I understand the theory about keeping them for later and wearing down an opponent the fact is that if you find a way to minimizestop the run used by an opponent to get back into a game, you may not need them at the end.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
Fran can use his timeouts as he sees fit. I don't care that much 1 way or the other. I can make a case for not using them in some situations. I can make a case for using them in some situations. I have noticed Iowa usually has several timeouts available late in games so I suspect Fran not using timeouts will be the norm rather than the exception.
HawkeyeHypnosis
Well-Known Member
In Fran's postgame, he talked about timeouts. He said he prefers to have them late in the game, but he definitely thought about calling one during the Illinois run.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I go back and forth on this one.
On one hand, I like the timeout when the opponent is going on a run....especially on the road. If nothing else, it gives you a chance to regroup and a chance for the players to communicate with each other where the breakdown(s) are occuring or simply for the coaches to diagram a set play that can hopefully end the run. But I do sort of understand what Fran was trying to do there. He had just gotten done questioning his team's toughness after the MSU game and I think he wanted to give them an opportunity to play thru it....to try and develop some mental toughness....something we're desperately going to need for the tournament. I don't know that I necessarily agree with Fran's approach in the first half of the Illinois game, but I understand what he was trying to do.
On the other hand, I absolutely don't like the TO on a late game last shot situation. The guys practice these situations ad nauseum....so they know exactly what they want to do. The offense definitely has the advantage in these situations so there's no need to call a TO to let the defense get organized. The only time I'd use a TO is if there was some confusion or if we absolutely didn't like the defensive set up and needed to diagram something else to attack that defense.
On one hand, I like the timeout when the opponent is going on a run....especially on the road. If nothing else, it gives you a chance to regroup and a chance for the players to communicate with each other where the breakdown(s) are occuring or simply for the coaches to diagram a set play that can hopefully end the run. But I do sort of understand what Fran was trying to do there. He had just gotten done questioning his team's toughness after the MSU game and I think he wanted to give them an opportunity to play thru it....to try and develop some mental toughness....something we're desperately going to need for the tournament. I don't know that I necessarily agree with Fran's approach in the first half of the Illinois game, but I understand what he was trying to do.
On the other hand, I absolutely don't like the TO on a late game last shot situation. The guys practice these situations ad nauseum....so they know exactly what they want to do. The offense definitely has the advantage in these situations so there's no need to call a TO to let the defense get organized. The only time I'd use a TO is if there was some confusion or if we absolutely didn't like the defensive set up and needed to diagram something else to attack that defense.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
My thinking as well...
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Ok, here's my take on it.
I think Fran should've called timeout sooner when Illinois was going on a run in the first half, and again in the second half. I just feel he let the runs go on for way too long and they got out of hand. I believe in stemming the tide sooner than later. Couple things a timeout will (hopefully) do for you: First, it lets your team regroup a bit and get some composure. Things can really snowball if you just let things play out. Second, I think if you're on the road, a timeout also helps settle the crowd a bit.
As far calling timeout at the end of regulation when you are holding for the last shot, and how that let's the defense get set.. If you are just dribbling out the clock, the defense has plenty of time to get set anyway. On the flip side, a timeout does let the opponent talk over their defense, but the team with the ball also has time to draw up some sort of strategy. So I honestly am not sure if there's an advantage one way or another. Some coaches like taking the timeout.. Other's don't. Fran's in the latter camp. To me it's just a matter of preference.
Regarding saving your timeouts.. I thought we had 4 left near the end of that game. He could've called a couple timeouts earlier in the game when Illinois was making its runs, and still had 2 left. How many timeouts do you honestly need to have in your pocket for the last minute of game?
I think Fran should've called timeout sooner when Illinois was going on a run in the first half, and again in the second half. I just feel he let the runs go on for way too long and they got out of hand. I believe in stemming the tide sooner than later. Couple things a timeout will (hopefully) do for you: First, it lets your team regroup a bit and get some composure. Things can really snowball if you just let things play out. Second, I think if you're on the road, a timeout also helps settle the crowd a bit.
As far calling timeout at the end of regulation when you are holding for the last shot, and how that let's the defense get set.. If you are just dribbling out the clock, the defense has plenty of time to get set anyway. On the flip side, a timeout does let the opponent talk over their defense, but the team with the ball also has time to draw up some sort of strategy. So I honestly am not sure if there's an advantage one way or another. Some coaches like taking the timeout.. Other's don't. Fran's in the latter camp. To me it's just a matter of preference.
Regarding saving your timeouts.. I thought we had 4 left near the end of that game. He could've called a couple timeouts earlier in the game when Illinois was making its runs, and still had 2 left. How many timeouts do you honestly need to have in your pocket for the last minute of game?
HawkeyeHypnosis
Well-Known Member
If he was a coach who called timeouts, we would hear about how they weren't called at the right time and it killed momentum. You can never win with these people, even if you're winning.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. To me, trying to save your timeouts for the end of the game means you're already assuming that it's going to be close and you'll need them. Almost a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. Why not use a few of them earlier and if you can stop the run and go on one of your own, then you don't need them at the end.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
That's basically what I've been thinking. I know Iowa won the game, and that's all well and good. The game probably would have gotten tight, anyway, but maybe Iowa doesn't get down by 5 mid-way second half if Fran stops those runs a little sooner. What would've happened if this had been against Michigan or MSU rather than the last place team in the league? Could Iowa have come back from 5 down?
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Why would you call timeout when you have momentum?
