Quick Iowa observations following Ohio State roadie

JonDMiller

Publisher/Founder
Ohio State played six players. Four of Ohio State's starters played all 40 minutes.

Since playing his son 24 minutes in a loss at Michigan and then two days later in a Monday press conference saying that he should have been playing his son more minutes earlier in the year, Todd has played John a total of 11 minutes in the last two games; six minutes against Illinois and five against Ohio State. Here are John's minutes totals going back to the start of the Big Ten season:

@OSU: 5
Illinois: 6
@Michigan: 24
OSU: 7
@Indiana: 8
@MSU: 16
PSU: 9
Tennessee State: 9
MSU: 15
@ ILL: 11
Minnesota: 21
Purdue: 8
SC State: 5

The reason I bring this up is not to run John through the ringer, I promise you that is not the case. I understand the need for John to see spot minutes here and there so that Cully can get a bit of a breather. It's last Monday's press conference comments that just stick in my head....and since then, and since the tempest in a teapot that ensued, John has played the least amount of minutes in any game since the start of the Big Ten season. Prior to the SC State game, the last game before the start of the Big Ten season, John didn't play at all, in any game. This was also the first game Iowa played in following the suspension of Anthony Tucker.

Again, I see the need, given the Tucker situation, for John to see the floor for a few minutes.

But which is it? If you are going to say things along the lines of what was said last Monday at the press conference, and then after that he plays the least amount of minutes in back to back games he has played since you put him in the mix back in late December, it's all the more befuddling.

I am willing to give Todd the 'human factor' benefit of the doubt here. Todd's just like the rest of us; he isn't perfect and emotion can sometimes kick in. Don't I know that...as I have probably posted more emotionally fueled diatribes in the past three weeks than I have since Alford tried to sell us that he had no interest in the Missouri job. So I'll stand up and raise my hand in the front of the line as being guilty of reactionary statements, both spoke and written, since the Michigan game.

I just felt like someone was peeing on my shoes last week and tried telling me it was raining.

After thinking about some things, reading some posts from Hawkeye fans on this site and others, I have found some shreds of wisdom...or at least, things that clicked a bit with me.

One being that this team is performing pretty much how I expected they'd perform. Before the year began, I felt like they would win between 8-11 games, in total. They are now 8-16. I felt like there was a 25% chance they would not win one Big Ten game, period, and they have won two.

They fight, they don't quit and while a lot of that credit goes to the character of the kids, I don't think people would play that hard or that way for a coach they didn't like or care for. So in the immortal words of Denny Green, they are who we thought they were.

For the rest of this season, I am going to try to just stick to talking x's and o's and leave the other stuff on the side...unless something takes place that is so egregious that it cannot be ignored. I don't need to add whatever little fuel my words or opinions amount to in the way of fuel to the fire.

There will be a time and place to discuss the other stuff. I don't believe Iowa is going to make any coaching change after this season. I believe Lick is going to get to mix next year's fine freshmen crop in with the players he has coming back, and it will be interesting to see what this team will be able to do with a few more shooters in the mix at nearly every position on the floor.

I am not going to sit here and say that I have all of the sudden swung back into being highly optimistic for the future of the program; I still have doubts. But I am also not going to spend the next two or three months ticked off at the world, either. It is what it is, and I don't have any control over anything that has taken place, or that will take place. The last thing I want to do is to rain down on the forums each day with negativity, because that is not who I am, and I have already grown tired of doing that for a short period of time. It is what it is. We'll see what happens the rest of the way.

Iowa has Northwestern, Michigan and Indiana at home the rest of the way. They can win those games, though I don't think they will win all three.

Finally, and before anyone makes this post; my comments in this post were not motivated by any outside remarks or criticisms or phone calls or emails. None at all. I just get tired of the negativity, even my own.
 
good write, jon.
i'm going to flush the reset button and do my best to not be negative about the program the rest of the year, too.
 
LOL. After reading your first few paragraphs, your last paragraph pretty much summed up what i was thinking while reading them.


When Lick said he thought his kid could have and should have played more minutes there was an uprising, almost unity, against this ridiculous statement. I had a feeling that powers that be (AD or maybe even higher) would probably have a sit down with ol' Lick and make it pretty clear that his statements wouldn't, shouldn't and couldn't come true. Since his statement Lil' Lick has seen fewer minutes - makes you wonder what is going on behind the scenes doesn't it?
 
John's minutes have been pretty consistent around the 10-11 minute mark since he has started playing except for the at Michigan game and the Minnesota games. These were blowouts, so did it really matter? John is mostly getting spot minutes! If Todd Lickliter were not the coach, people would not be complaining about John's playing time or the quality of play, which by the way has not been embarrassing!!! I know people, John would not be on the team if Todd were not the coach, so you will just have to think hypothetically!!!!

I think the reason Coach Lickliter said John deserved more minutes and should have played earlier was because of the line of questioning he was getting from media. I am sure he was pi$$ed and wanted to defend is son!!!
 
If Todd Lickliter were not the coach, people would not be complaining about John's playing time ...

If Todd were not the coach, John would not have seen the floor in any Big Ten game for any Big Ten team, ever. If Todd were still at Butler and John were a walkon there, and played 24 minutes in an Horizon league game, Bulldogs fans probably would wonder what was going on. It's just not his thing...that's OK, being a Big Ten basketball player is something that 99.9999% of the population isn't cut out to be, either.

That being said on this team this year, I understand why John sees the court for five or six minutes a game.
 
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If Todd were not the coach, John would not have seen the floor in any Big Ten game for any Big Ten team, ever. If Todd were still at Butler and John were a walkon there, and played 24 minutes in an Horizon league game, Bulldogs fans probably would wonder what was going on. It's just not his thing...that's OK, being a Big Ten basketball player is something that 99.9999% of the population isn't cut out to be, either.

That being said on this team this year, I understand why John sees the court for five or six minutes a game.

Agreed, that is why I typed the word "hypothetically" in that post. Some of us actually understand the logic behind why John has to play this season! He was never put on the team with the understanding he would be a contributor. He was put on the team to continue to learn from his father in the hopes of someday being a coach himself. Some of us could only be so lucky!!!

The two blowout games aside, John only averages 9 minutes a game, and some of that was by being in the game at the same time with Cully. I don't think that is too out of line. I think John played more in the Michigan game as a teaching lesson to Cully, who was not playing well at all. After that game, many of the antagonists proclaimed Cully to be in Lick's doghouse!!! Obviously that has not been the case as well!
 
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I think the reason Coach Lickliter said John deserved more minutes and should have played earlier was because of the line of questioning he was getting from media. I am sure he was pi$$ed and wanted to defend is son!!!

I agree. Which probably was TL's biggest mistake. He needs to be able to separate Jon(his son) and Jon(the walk on). Especially when a lot of fans are wondering why he got an automatic walk on spot.

Ya know, it's a recipe for disaster if a coach has his son on a team that is struggling. I remember Tubby's son getting lots of abuse at Kentucky when he was coaching there.
 
If Todd were not the coach, John would not have seen the floor in any Big Ten game for any Big Ten team, ever. If Todd were still at Butler and John were a walkon there, and played 24 minutes in an Horizon league game, Bulldogs fans probably would wonder what was going on. It's just not his thing...that's OK, being a Big Ten basketball player is something that 99.9999% of the population isn't cut out to be, either.

That being said on this team this year, I understand why John sees the court for five or six minutes a game.
Again, I said this in other threads, but I will say it here too. Michigan State played Mike Kebler (a 3rd string PG who runs the scout team in practice) yesterday for 5 minutes on the road against Illinois. I think the 3rd string PG for Iowa (whoever it was) would be playing to spell Cully Payne since Tucker was suspended. It is only because it is the coach's son and the team is losing that the problem became bigger than what it really was.

I agree that John L would not be the 3rd string PG on any other team in the Big 10 if his dad was not the coach. But he is. Let's get over it. We can't change the fact that the kid was trying to help the team and was pressed into service.
 
A little off topic here but I said it before (though most of you don't remember) and I'll say it again, this whole season is about two things for me personally:

1. Improvement (which involves shaping a core group of young guys to work around) and

2. Ruining someone else's season. And besides I really dont want NW getting to the big dance after what they did to us in football. I would love for us to beat them.
 
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As I've said before: If all players with eligibility remaining are in uniform next year -Plus- all of the recruiting class makes it on campus I will have renewed optimism for next year. If neither is true then we're not going to get this shipwreck that is Iowa Basketball turned around with the coach we have.

I believe Lick is a good coach. I just hope he's not at the wrong place and/or at the wrong time.
 
I dont think anyone doesnt understand why John has had to play spot minutes. If Monday's presser that followed up the 24 minutes against MSU hadn't taken place, or if it had included the fact that Payne was battling illness, I dont think much, if anything, would have been said.
 
I can fault Lick for doing a poor job of recruiting, but throwing that out the window, and considering the current roster situation, I completely understand why John is playing a few minutes per game.

I'd hope that the majority of fans can understand why that is necessary, considering the situation.

And, I'd argue, that if his name was Johnny Smith, from <pick your favorite small town in Iowa>, (instead of John Lickliter-the coach's son), his effort and determination would be praised unanimously.
 
As I've said before: If all players with eligibility remaining are in uniform next year -Plus- all of the recruiting class makes it on campus I will have renewed optimism for next year. If neither is true then we're not going to get this shipwreck that is Iowa Basketball turned around with the coach we have.

I believe Lick is a good coach. I just hope he's not at the wrong place and/or at the wrong time.

I am a supporter of Lick, but this is where I stand as well. I think there is a core group of players that cannot leave. I think there are a couple and I don't need to name names that would be acceptable!
 
The program IS what it is. They may not win anymore games this year or they might win one or two, who knows. It doesn't really matter anymore this year. Iowa is as good as their record, which means that the program is in terrible shape. What we do know is that Iowa is going to lose more than 21 games this year. And before the season, many Hawk fans said this team was going to surprise all the negative Hawk fans. After a few games those same fans started saying, "We should have expected a bad season." Didn't take long for optimism to turn into excuses.

Whether the new recruiting class can come in and make much of a difference remains to be seen with lick ball. What the 4th year of this coaching staff and the new recruiting class converts into wins in the Big 10 should be the bottom line. We could definitely see the difference in talent between the two teams today. Again, Iowa is only as good as their record and where they are in the standings of the Big 10.

lil lick wouldn't even see an Iowa uniform if big lick wasn't the coach. A different coach wouldn't give lil lick the time of day as a walkon but big lick gives lil lick 10 to 12 minutes a game in the Big 10. THAT is a travesty. If nothing else big lick should at least hold tryouts for walkons but doesn't even have the honesty to do that, preferring to play his son. Then people get their panties in a bunch when lil lick is made fun of. But why should you get upset, the kid does not deserve to play on a Big 10 team and everyone knows it. Just because big lick is unable to recruit, lil lick gets a spot on the team and a lot of minutes that he does not deserve.

The kid is going to be made fun of regardless how hard he works or plays. Is it right? Doesn't matter...he is the coaches kid, he doesn't deserve to play, and it looks like favoritism...he IS going to take the brunt of the criticism. Get used to it because as long as lil Lick plays this many minutes the criticism isn't going to stop regardless whether he is a nice kid or works hard. Big lick set him up and lil lick is paying...
 
The program IS what it is. They may not win anymore games this year or they might win one or two, who knows. It doesn't really matter anymore this year. Iowa is as good as their record, which means that the program is in terrible shape. What we do know is that Iowa is going to lose more than 21 games this year. And before the season, many Hawk fans said this team was going to surprise all the negative Hawk fans. After a few games those same fans started saying, "We should have expected a bad season." Didn't take long for optimism to turn into excuses.

Whether the new recruiting class can come in and make much of a difference remains to be seen with lick ball. What the 4th year of this coaching staff and the new recruiting class converts into wins in the Big 10 should be the bottom line. We could definitely see the difference in talent between the two teams today. Again, Iowa is only as good as their record and where they are in the standings of the Big 10.

lil lick wouldn't even see an Iowa uniform if big lick wasn't the coach. A different coach wouldn't give lil lick the time of day as a walkon but big lick gives lil lick 10 to 12 minutes a game in the Big 10. THAT is a travesty. If nothing else big lick should at least hold tryouts for walkons but doesn't even have the honesty to do that, preferring to play his son. Then people get their panties in a bunch when lil lick is made fun of. But why should you get upset, the kid does not deserve to play on a Big 10 team and everyone knows it. Just because big lick is unable to recruit, lil lick gets a spot on the team and a lot of minutes that he does not deserve.

The kid is going to be made fun of regardless how hard he works or plays. Is it right? Doesn't matter...he is the coaches kid, he doesn't deserve to play, and it looks like favoritism...he IS going to take the brunt of the criticism. Get used to it because as long as lil Lick plays this many minutes the criticism isn't going to stop regardless whether he is a nice kid or works hard. Big lick set him up and lil lick is paying...

Were all paying for it...somewhat embarrassing.
 
The program IS what it is. They may not win anymore games this year or they might win one or two, who knows. It doesn't really matter anymore this year. Iowa is as good as their record, which means that the program is in terrible shape. What we do know is that Iowa is going to lose more than 21 games this year. And before the season, many Hawk fans said this team was going to surprise all the negative Hawk fans. After a few games those same fans started saying, "We should have expected a bad season." Didn't take long for optimism to turn into excuses.

Whether the new recruiting class can come in and make much of a difference remains to be seen with lick ball. What the 4th year of this coaching staff and the new recruiting class converts into wins in the Big 10 should be the bottom line. We could definitely see the difference in talent between the two teams today. Again, Iowa is only as good as their record and where they are in the standings of the Big 10.

lil lick wouldn't even see an Iowa uniform if big lick wasn't the coach. A different coach wouldn't give lil lick the time of day as a walkon but big lick gives lil lick 10 to 12 minutes a game in the Big 10. THAT is a travesty. If nothing else big lick should at least hold tryouts for walkons but doesn't even have the honesty to do that, preferring to play his son. Then people get their panties in a bunch when lil lick is made fun of. But why should you get upset, the kid does not deserve to play on a Big 10 team and everyone knows it. Just because big lick is unable to recruit, lil lick gets a spot on the team and a lot of minutes that he does not deserve.

The kid is going to be made fun of regardless how hard he works or plays. Is it right? Doesn't matter...he is the coaches kid, he doesn't deserve to play, and it looks like favoritism...he IS going to take the brunt of the criticism. Get used to it because as long as lil Lick plays this many minutes the criticism isn't going to stop regardless whether he is a nice kid or works hard. Big lick set him up and lil lick is paying...


We won't need to worry about it for two reasons. One, if Tucker comes back this year to play and two, John will not play next year with the added depth. Anybody with any sense of logic understands why John is playing right now?
 

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