Would replacing Brands do anything?
- Thread starter hawkinn3
- Start date
We won't know until it happens. But see men's basketball. New coach and much better product to watch. In football, AD got rid of BF forcing KF to hire a new OC. The results are better there as well.
I'd take my chance on the AD firing the current wrestling regime and bringing in a new HC and staff.
The current wrestling program is not even the best in the state of Iowa and I don't see that changing with the Brands in charge.
The Brands say they have the right guys on the team. If so, they're not getting the best out of them which is on coaching and if they're not the best guys for the team, that's again on coaching for a recruiting failure. Either way, this is on the Brands.
Fryowa
Administrator
I'm not saying he's not going to get canned because nowadays you never say never, but any available coach won't be an upgrade.
Also, Travis Justice knows nothing about wrestling or the Iowa program and he's a husker fan.
The biggest "tread lightly" thing for Beth in this whole deal is how close Tom and Terry are with the donor base in IC. They are all REAL tight and if he's gone I can see that money following him to whatever program he ended up at. She needs to be real, real careful how she handles this thing.
Now to play devil's advocate...if Iowa continues to tank and CHA becomes half empty, wrestling's not going to be a revenue sport anymore and it ain't gonna really matter in the grand scheme of things. At that point you're not out anything to roll the dice other than the program tanking further. Iowa wrestling is at the point since Gable where in people's minds if you ain't first your last. Maybe this is the end of the road, I dunno.
Also, Travis Justice knows nothing about wrestling or the Iowa program and he's a husker fan.
The biggest "tread lightly" thing for Beth in this whole deal is how close Tom and Terry are with the donor base in IC. They are all REAL tight and if he's gone I can see that money following him to whatever program he ended up at. She needs to be real, real careful how she handles this thing.
Now to play devil's advocate...if Iowa continues to tank and CHA becomes half empty, wrestling's not going to be a revenue sport anymore and it ain't gonna really matter in the grand scheme of things. At that point you're not out anything to roll the dice other than the program tanking further. Iowa wrestling is at the point since Gable where in people's minds if you ain't first your last. Maybe this is the end of the road, I dunno.
Fryowa
Administrator
All private money. This training center was probably the worst thing that's ever happened to Iowa wrestling...bar none. It's not because it was a bad idea, it's because of the timing of it.
When the performance center idea was pitched it was intended to be what finally broke Penn State's back. NIL wasn't a thing in wrestling back then, and that project was aimed at being the biggest and best facility of its kind. It was going to be the thing that would finally lure the best recruits away from Sanderson and others, returning Iowa back to glory. The total donations brought in for were $31 million. The biggest donors were 100% al in, "Tell me what you need Tom and we'll make it happen..." There's a good YT video from Chael Sonnen's channel where they tour it during construction and interview the big main donor.
Welp, right after it was finished NIL became a thing. But it was too late for Iowa. PSU donors stood at the ready and started shooting money bazookas at their program for NIL salaries and they didn't just maintain the talent gap, they widened it.
Now imagine if Iowa had held off and had $31 million in NIL money to spend on a ten man roster over the next say, 6 years. Iowa would be squarely in the NIL driver's seat and by that time they'd have stolen back what PSU had...making them the top dog and the place high schoolers wanted to go. That would mean filling CHA again, going undefeated annually again, bringing even more donors into the fold, and the cycle would only snowball bigger and bigger.
I hate the new training facility because every time I see it I think about what coulda been.
It's big and beautiful, but it was the penultimate waste of money in hindsight.
Tom isn't the problem, money is the problem. You can fire Tom and get a different coach, but until NIL is leveled out this thing is going to continue as status quo. Unless you accept trying to fight only for second place, but that has never been Iowa wrestling. And good luck trying to convince a donor you want his money to fight it out with nebraska, Iowa State, and Ohio State for 2nd place.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Did not know the “rest of the story”. Very interesting. So, long story short in the Iowa wrestling world is$$$. That is getting to be an echo chamber in college sports.
F@@@
Fryowa
Administrator
Yep.
I understand people saying Brands needs to go, but they're completely clueless. Those people are like the ones in football who say KF should be fired. They don't understand the workings of college sports at a deeper level.
Like I said, they can fire Brands and get whatever coach they want, but until there's enough money to bring in the best wrestlers, Iowa and everyone else is fighting for 2nd place. Realistically Iowa is fighting for 5th or 6th right now, but are people really going to be happy with any coach at Iowa when they don't have a snowball's chance of contending for a title? Nope.
Folks need to realize that this isn't the Gable era anymore where wrestlers fought for the chance to come wrestle here rather than the other way around. Supply well outpaced demand back then but now it's the opposite. PSU as a team has their pick of all the supply.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Wrestling only pretends to be a team sport. I don’t know much about wrestling. I did have two grandson’s who did the sport in HS. So I learned a bit. Only really watched their matches. The rest Were boring and the meets went on forever!
No wrestling in RR when I grew up there. In fact, we dropped girls’ BB citing lack of gym space. Those were the early 60’s.
#1DieHardHawk
Well-Known Member
I agree that moving on from T&T has little chance of success, at least in the short term, and, Fry is correct, Beth will have to "read the room" very intently before making any major changes.
That said, IF she (the boosters...) decide now is the time to move on, one name I would through out there is Coleman Scott.
He did an outstanding job at North Carolina, and, between Carolina and OSU, he's formed major recruiting connections over the years.
The NIL dilemma will hang over the head of anyone she brings in, so it would make sense to target someone with HC experience and a track record of success.
Neil Erisman is another thought, but he just signed an extension with Little Rock and hasn't expressed much interest in leaving. You'd have to think, though, that if Iowa came calling he'd at least give it quite a bit of thought.
That said, IF she (the boosters...) decide now is the time to move on, one name I would through out there is Coleman Scott.
He did an outstanding job at North Carolina, and, between Carolina and OSU, he's formed major recruiting connections over the years.
The NIL dilemma will hang over the head of anyone she brings in, so it would make sense to target someone with HC experience and a track record of success.
Neil Erisman is another thought, but he just signed an extension with Little Rock and hasn't expressed much interest in leaving. You'd have to think, though, that if Iowa came calling he'd at least give it quite a bit of thought.
If donors and NIL were not involved, after this season wouldn't be a bad time for a change, depending on how the Hawks perform at the NCAAs. If they finish 6th or worse, with the heart and soul of the team graduating after the season -- Ayala, Caliendo, and Kennedy -- from an instinctive and logical standpoint, probably not a ton to lose if you're gonna make a change. But that doesn't take into consideration all the other factors.
Also, I know nothing about the Hawkeye Wrestling Club...is that a private business run by the Brands? If he leaves, would that have to be rebooted from scratch? Would that be the hardest thing to continue in a meaningful way or reboot if Brands leaves?
Also, I know nothing about the Hawkeye Wrestling Club...is that a private business run by the Brands? If he leaves, would that have to be rebooted from scratch? Would that be the hardest thing to continue in a meaningful way or reboot if Brands leaves?
kameltoez102
Well-Known Member
I am not a diehard but follow when I can and enjoy watching the sport. While I don't think T&T are the foundations of the problems I was very surprised by the lack of effort against MN especially at home. It that continues into the next dual(s) to me it signifies that maybe they have lost the locker room and I am not sure if you have a choice but to really explore different options.
Fryowa
Administrator
HWC is a 501c3 non profit that Dan Gable started back in the 70s. It's what's called a Regional Training Center (RTC). These RTCs purpose is to fund and train wrestlers to compete in international freestyle like the world championships and Olympics. There are a ton of them like the one Penn State people run (NLWC), Titan-Mercury, Sunkist Kids until it closed. Foxcatcher was the one John DuPont was running in the 90s before he went psycho and murdered Dave Schultz. The Brands were training there at the time as was Royce Alger, others...
There's no owner of Hawkeye Wrestling Club, they have a board of directors and they are funded by donations. The donor pool for HWC is called "Inner Circle." It's just like the I-Club or Swarm, only it's not affiliated with the University. There's different levels of membership depending on how much you donate, and you get more perks the more you donate.
People tend to get confused about HWC which is totally understandable.
HWC really has nothing to do with college wrestling. It's there to support guys training for international freestyle events including the Olympics. All the top countries in international wrestling have government programs that basically let you make a living at it. Iran, China, Japan, Russia, the "-stan" countries, Cuba, etc...they all have government programs that give international athletes (in this case wrestling) housing, living expenses, food, training by elite coaches, etc. and that's their full time job. The US has none of that and guys have to either be rich, or they have to be supported by donations to train at RTCs. It's why American freestyle wrestling sucks now comparatively because most of our guys are barely scraping by to live and have to have other full time jobs. That's where places like HWC, NLWC, Titan-Mercury, many others, come in.
If Tom got let go (ain't gonna happen), he would be totally free to still run HWC...but they don't really have anything to do with each other so the point is kind of moot.
It also probably wouldn't surprise you to know that NLWC has almost quadruple the resources HWC has (see below). Now you might think hey...that has nothing to do with college wrestling, but...if you were a truly elite recruit who had the dream and potential to win a gold medal someday...Carl Sanderson can promise you a pretty sweet deal after graduation. You don't have to move, you can still train under him, same wrestling room, and a HEFTY chunk of change while you train for your Olympic dream. Which would you choose?
People don't fully understand how far PSU is away from literally everyone else now. Cannot be overstated.
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