Wanna Stop Flopping In College Football?

Fryowa

Administrator
This isn't a debate about whether it does or doesn't happen. Start a different thread for that. This is a thread on the best way to discourage it. Below is a set of rules that I believe would disincentivize it in all cases and remove any advantage from doing so.


1) This one should be obvious...the team using the injury timeout shall remain outside the opposite hash of its own sideline and not be allowed to huddle with coaches/staff.

2) The injured player must leave the game for 12 defensive snaps if he is a defensive player, or 12 offensive snaps if he is an offensive player. Last year the average snaps per team per game was 81, so missing 12 would be 15% of the game for that particular player regardless of time on the clock, drive length, what quarter or half it is.

3) The player being substituted for the injured player may not enter the game until the injury timeout is over, in order to prevent him from giving the team direction from the coaching staff during the injury timeout.

4) Teams are allowed two injury timeouts per half (with the exception mentioned below).
a. ANY injury timeouts occurring in the last 4 minutes of the half entitle the other team to chose from
one of 4 options:
1. Remove 1:00 from the clock. If there is less than 1:00 on the clock they may remove half the time remaining. Half of 0:35 would round down to 0:17.
2. Add 1:30 to the clock (injury timeouts are normally more beneficial to defenses, the punishment should reflect that
3. Add an additional timeout to their own total
4. Remove a timeout from the injured team's total

5) Any team causing a 3rd injury timeout before 4 minutes left in the half is assessed a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down/loss of down depending on whether the offending team is on offense or defense.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
#1) I really like and agree with.
#2) I'm not sure the NCAA would have any interest in managing this rule and counting plays. I would simplify it and state the player cannot come back in during that defensive series. If a team is willing to lose a player for a series, than so be it.
#3) I really like.
#4) I'd hate to punish teams for legitimate injuries. Not sure managing all that would work. I believe just doing the first 3 above alone would deter teams from doing it.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
I like the idea of em having to burn their TOs over em. Those things are gold in a close game so that should do the trick. Once they've used those all up then start with the penalties. Even 5 yard penalties would discourage it.

And then the injured players should have to sit out a set amount of plays. I'm not sure what that outta be 10-15 snaps. Or make it a time thing if you're hurt with under 2 mins to go in a quarter or half you gotta sit out till next starts. Something like that
 

ssckelley

Well-Known Member
2) Injured player must remain out of the game until there has been a change of possession.

Honestly I think that by itself would solve the problem. Forget the amount of snaps, who in the hell is gonna keep track of that? Just make it where the injured player can't go back into the game for the rest of that drive.

Not having access to your coaches or allowing the replacement player in the game I go back and forth on. Substitutes are being used to bring plays in anyway, the player coming in isn't going to be outlining an entirely new strategy. I can see some value in not allowing the entire team to talk to the coaches but you don't want the team milling around the injured player either.

I think your 4 and your 2nd 3 (I'm sure you meant 5) is unnecessary and could lead to players remaining in games when hurt to avoid their team getting penalized. This could be very dangerous in football.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
#2) I'm not sure the NCAA would have any interest in managing this rule and counting plays. I would simplify it and state the player cannot come back in during that defensive series. If a team is willing to lose a player for a series, than so be it.
Nah, it'd be easy. I'm a high school coach and I have to have three people count a couple hundred pitches per game and get them all to agree, and my budget is under $1,000 for the year.

Since a player sitting out for the incorrect number of snaps isn't uber critical to the outcome (like if he sat 9 instead of 12), make each team police it and make a punishment next game if it's proven.

If we have an opponent in HS baseball who goes over the pitch limit, we report it to the IAHSAA the next day and they forfeit.

Just tell teams it's up to them to enforce. Designate a grad assistant to count the plays after a guy is removed, and if he doesn't sit out the required number of plays send the tape to the conference office and force the player to sit out the next half of his next game. The whole process would take 10 mins nowadays with digital film and email.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
2) Injured player must remain out of the game until there has been a change of possession.

Honestly I think that by itself would solve the problem. Forget the amount of snaps, who in the hell is gonna keep track of that?
See post #7.

I do more complicated tracking than that in 25+ baseball games every year and I have a staff of 2 people.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Not having access to your coaches or allowing the replacement player in the game I go back and forth on. Substitutes are being used to bring plays in anyway, the player coming in isn't going to be outlining an entirely new strategy. I can see some value in not allowing the entire team to talk to the coaches but you don't want the team milling around the injured player either.
Then they can bring the play in when the injury TO is over.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
#4) I'd hate to punish teams for legitimate injuries. Not sure managing all that would work. I believe just doing the first 3 above alone would deter teams from doing it.
But we all know that injury TOs are most devastating or beneficial during the last part of the game. You cannot allow teams to take free timeouts during that time, otherwise what's the point of having a set number of TOs in the first place?

The punishment needs to be more severe with short time remaining. Those rules would completely eliminate flopping from the sport in the last 4 minutes. Would it hurt a team with a legit injury? Yep. That's football.
 

Luftgekuehlt67

Well-Known Member
This isn't a debate about whether it does or doesn't happen. Start a different thread for that. This is a thread on the best way to discourage it. Below is a set of rules that I believe would disincentivize it in all cases and remove any advantage from doing so.


1) This one should be obvious...the team using the injury timeout shall remain outside the opposite hash of its own sideline and not be allowed to huddle with coaches/staff.

2) The injured player must leave the game for 12 defensive snaps if he is a defensive player, or 12 offensive snaps if he is an offensive player. Last year the average snaps per team per game was 81, so missing 12 would be 15% of the game for that particular player regardless of time on the clock, drive length, what quarter or half it is.

3) The player being substituted for the injured player may not enter the game until the injury timeout is over, in order to prevent him from giving the team direction from the coaching staff during the injury timeout.

4) Teams are allowed two injury timeouts per half (with the exception mentioned below).
a. ANY injury timeouts occurring in the last 4 minutes of the half entitle the other team to chose from
one of 4 options:
1. Remove 1:00 from the clock. If there is less than 1:00 on the clock they may remove half the time remaining. Half of 0:35 would round down to 0:17.
2. Add 1:30 to the clock (injury timeouts are normally more beneficial to defenses, the punishment should reflect that
3. Add an additional timeout to their own total
4. Remove a timeout from the injured team's total

5) Any team causing a 3rd injury timeout before 4 minutes left in the half is assessed a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down/loss of down depending on whether the offending team is on offense or defense.
Really well done overall, I think. Very well reasoned, but admit that you stole #1 from me! Admit it!!!

I think you could implement #1 mid season, no problem.

#2 and #3 are also excellent. I'm afraid #4 and #5 may go a bit far, though. I'm not opposed to pushing further into "stick" territory, but if I had a magic wand I'd try 1-3 for a season and observe the results.

Football is a very violent and dangerous sport, injuries are no joke. The idea of a team faking (or even exaggerating) them for a competitive advantage kind of makes me sick.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
This isn't baseball where there are a dozen people or more tracking pitch counts. You are over complicating it, just make the injured player sit out the rest of the drive.
Read what I wrote.

I don't have a dozen people tracking anything. We have our freshman coach, a JV player, and a dad in the crowd count pitches to make sure we get it right. It'd literally take a college grad assistant minutes to see if there was a violation in a football game because they have 100 different film angles.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Really well done overall, I think. Very well reasoned, but admit that you stole #1 from me! Admit it!!!
Nope. I originally posted in the other thread that I thought they should stay between the hashes, but the hash mark on your own team's side is so close as to be non existent really.
 

Luftgekuehlt67

Well-Known Member
Also, just constructive criticism, but your thread title should have been "Wanna stop" and then the first line of the post body would have been "Flopping in college football?"

Not only is it more pleasant for the reader, but it will get you more clicks because people will need to click to see what you're on about. Big brain.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
For the record, I know full well the NCAA would never do anything like this, and likely will never change the current rule.

But my rules would eliminate any advantage to flopping by burning either timeouts or clock time, which is the only motivation.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
See post #7.

I do more complicated tracking than that in 25+ baseball games every year and I have a staff of 2 people.

Yea, but I don't think it's needed if there would be adoption of a couple of your other rules and if the player just had to sit out until a possession change. I'd think that would be enough and streamline the entire situation.
 
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