So Where is the Bar for Iowa Basketball

L

longtimer

Well-Known Member
Is it Beating 8 or 9 cupcakes in the non conference and then hoping to go 500 or a little better in the Big Ten get into the tournament as a 7 or 8 seed and maybe win a game to get demolished in the second game never to make it to the second weekend or if miss the tournament play in the NIT before 4000 fans making it to maybe the second round? Because that is what it has been for the past 15 years and even worse with good old Lick.

Should Iowa consider "attempting" to raise the bar starting with a change of head coach. Sure it could get worse. Tradition, Diminishing crowds, NIL, Carver Arena and students not on the floor and overall Apathy are all going to be difficult to overcome. BUT in the past it has been done at Iowa with Ralph Miller George Raveling (had he stayed) and Lute Olsen. Sure different times (but who would have guessed Indiana would be in the football playoffs)? Just how much is there to risk?

Bottom line if you are happy/satisfied with the bar now and I suspect most on the board might be I say we give McCaffrey a lifetime contract. The bar won't move much either way and who knows if he brings in a great recruiting class like the one coming in next year that elusive second week on the tournament may be in play.
 
The risk is letting Mr. Davis go and getting Alford, who protected a rapist in the name of the lord, and Lickliter, an absolute dumpster fire. Fran runs a clean, admirable program with a success rate that matches among the best stretches of consistency on program history. He revived this program from the dead.

You shouldn't fire Fran based on merit. His success is comparable to what KF has done with football (the Music City bowl is like being an 8 or 9 seed, maybe) and certainly the history of this program. So, if the argument is Fran isn't winning enough, not on board with that.

Now, if the argument is apathy and plummeting attendance, that has to be addressed yesterday. And Fran needs to be a part of it by better promoting the program. I see Payton Sandfort asking fans at the women's game the other night to come to the men's game. Other players put requests out on social media this week FOR THE IOWA STATE GAME.

Fran isn't on social media and he doesn't sell the program to the public enough. Too much competition for entertainment dollar to just be Iowa men's basketball and people show up like 30 years ago.

Believe it or not, Fran is funny and pretty easy going away from the bench. He can do it if he chooses to do it.

I think it's well within Beth Goetz's right to ask that of him. If he refuses and the attendance continues dropping, then she should consider a change because you would have a coach unwilling to help.

This might be a column idea. :)
 
longtimer said:
Is it Beating 8 or 9 cupcakes in the non conference and then hoping to go 500 or a little better in the Big Ten get into the tournament as a 7 or 8 seed and maybe win a game to get demolished in the second game never to make it to the second weekend or if miss the tournament play in the NIT before 4000 fans making it to maybe the second round? Because that is what it has been for the past 15 years and even worse with good old Lick.

Should Iowa consider "attempting" to raise the bar starting with a change of head coach. Sure it could get worse. Tradition, Diminishing crowds, NIL, Carver Arena and students not on the floor and overall Apathy are all going to be difficult to overcome. BUT in the past it has been done at Iowa with Ralph Miller George Raveling (had he stayed) and Lute Olsen. Sure different times (but who would have guessed Indiana would be in the football playoffs)? Just how much is there to risk?

Bottom line if you are happy/satisfied with the bar now and I suspect most on the board might be I say we give McCaffrey a lifetime contract. The bar won't move much either way and who knows if he brings in a great recruiting class like the one coming in next year that elusive second week on the tournament may be in play.
Click to expand...
Yup that's pretty much the ceiling these days... The ceiling that we might/probably won't even get to. I could see us not getting in the dance. Moral victories don't count for anything the last time I checked. The rest of this month should paint the picture of if we even have a snowballs chance of going dancing really. So long as the older Sandfort is playing big mins we'll have a low ceiling.

Fran is who he is. Unless he lucks into finding another Garza or the mens version of Caitlin and they really start winning and looking good apathy has just gotten too engrained amongst fans. That said to me it's too late I think this will be his last yr. His family is mostly all in or about to be in Indiana anyway once Jack goes. The writing seems to be on the wall. Iowa fans are done with him and he seems to be done with us. This yr is going through the motions collecting a paycheck.
 
RobHowe said:
The risk is letting Mr. Davis go and getting Alford, who protected a rapist in the name of the lord, and Lickliter, an absolute dumpster fire. Fran runs a clean, admirable program with a success rate that matches among the best stretches of consistency on program history. He revived this program from the dead.

You shouldn't fire Fran based on merit. His success is comparable to what KF has done with football (the Music City bowl is like being an 8 or 9 seed, maybe) and certainly the history of this program. So, if the argument is Fran isn't winning enough, not on board with that.

Now, if the argument is apathy and plummeting attendance, that has to be addressed yesterday. And Fran needs to be a part of it by better promoting the program. I see Payton Sandfort asking fans at the women's game the other night to come to the men's game. Other players put requests out on social media this week FOR THE IOWA STATE GAME.

Fran isn't on social media and he doesn't sell the program to the public enough. Too much competition for entertainment dollar to just be Iowa men's basketball and people show up like 30 years ago.

Believe it or not, Fran is funny and pretty easy going away from the bench. He can do it if he chooses to do it.

I think it's well within Beth Goetz's right to ask that of him. If he refuses and the attendance continues dropping, then she should consider a change because you would have a coach unwilling to help.

This might be a column idea. :)
Click to expand...
I agree with the analysis of winning and running a clean program and being comparable to KF. Both win at about the same clip and both are great at developing individual players. Fran has had a Wooden award winner and the Murray twins of late. KF has had a player win just about every individual award short of the Heisman.

Where I disagree is not noting that KF has had some nationally relevant years where he has made BCS bowl games, which in my mind are Elite 8 type years in football. 2002, 2009, 2015. Iowa would have made the playoffs those years under the current format. KF also has had a lot of Top 25 finishes. Fran has a couple nice conference tournament runs, but right or wrong, MBB is judged by the tourney and Fran has not gotten to the second weekend. Ever. So, while Fran and KF have a lot in common from a winning perspective, KF has had years where Iowa was nationally relevant and at least in the hunt for the playoffs. Fran has not sniffed that level of success in any given year.
 
It's been beaten like a dead horse over the years, but while I'm not sure Fran is the guy that can get us to the sweet 16 or an elite 8 he's consistent year in and year out. Whether I think that consistency is considered "giving up the possibility of something special" or "being complacent" that's not for me to decide. That said if, and it's a big if, his predecessor is out there and there is mutual interest maybe it's time to make a move. But you don't pull the trigger and go with another guy if your uncertain who that guy is. You don't terminate or go different ways just to do it without a plan in place when you've got consistency within the program.

Disclaimer: This is coming from a guy that has been hard on Fran over the years, hates fact that defense isn't a priority the way offense is, and thinks he's way too dependent on perimeter shooting to win games.
 
“the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”

Assuming the Presidency at the depth of the Great Depression, Franklin D. Roosevelt helped the American people regain faith in themselves. He brought hope as he promised prompt, vigorous action, and asserted in his Inaugural Address, “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”

Another one I like is this one. “I have seen the enemy and the enemy is us.”

Oliver Hazard Perry's
This is a twist on Oliver Hazard Perry's words after a naval battle: “ We have met the enemy, and they are ours .” The updated version was first used in the comic strip “Pogo,” by Walt Kelly, in the 1960s and referred to the turmoil caused by the Vietnam War .
 
RobHowe said:
The risk is letting Mr. Davis go and getting Alford, who protected a rapist in the name of the lord, and Lickliter, an absolute dumpster fire. Fran runs a clean, admirable program with a success rate that matches among the best stretches of consistency on program history. He revived this program from the dead.

You shouldn't fire Fran based on merit. His success is comparable to what KF has done with football (the Music City bowl is like being an 8 or 9 seed, maybe) and certainly the history of this program. So, if the argument is Fran isn't winning enough, not on board with that.

Now, if the argument is apathy and plummeting attendance, that has to be addressed yesterday. And Fran needs to be a part of it by better promoting the program. I see Payton Sandfort asking fans at the women's game the other night to come to the men's game. Other players put requests out on social media this week FOR THE IOWA STATE GAME.

Fran isn't on social media and he doesn't sell the program to the public enough. Too much competition for entertainment dollar to just be Iowa men's basketball and people show up like 30 years ago.

Believe it or not, Fran is funny and pretty easy going away from the bench. He can do it if he chooses to do it.

I think it's well within Beth Goetz's right to ask that of him. If he refuses and the attendance continues dropping, then she should consider a change because you would have a coach unwilling to help.

This might be a column idea. :)
Click to expand...
Great post. I also wonder what the Athletic Department can do to help Fran with this issue. It seems that there are a lot of opportunities to step out of the 1990's in terms of fan experience. Having the students at courtside is a good start.
 
Fryowa said:
Especially in the NIL era, good luck not getting an Alford or Lick after Fran like Rob said.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I didn't mention the NIL and resource differences (facilities, etc) between the programs or the level of in-state talent relative to the two sports. Significantly easier to win in football and wrestling than men's basketball at Iowa based on these factors. Women's basketball has more P4 instate prospects and had a generational talent, an international star.

With or without Fran, if there's not a bigger investment in the men's basketball program, Goetz will have to pull a rabbit out of her hat hitting on a lower-level coach. Proven P4 head coaches or top assistants weren't lining up when Fran was hired.

What's changed?
 
RobHowe said:
The risk is letting Mr. Davis go and getting Alford, who protected a rapist in the name of the lord, and Lickliter, an absolute dumpster fire. Fran runs a clean, admirable program with a success rate that matches among the best stretches of consistency on program history. He revived this program from the dead.

You shouldn't fire Fran based on merit. His success is comparable to what KF has done with football (the Music City bowl is like being an 8 or 9 seed, maybe) and certainly the history of this program. So, if the argument is Fran isn't winning enough, not on board with that.

Now, if the argument is apathy and plummeting attendance, that has to be addressed yesterday. And Fran needs to be a part of it by better promoting the program. I see Payton Sandfort asking fans at the women's game the other night to come to the men's game. Other players put requests out on social media this week FOR THE IOWA STATE GAME.

Fran isn't on social media and he doesn't sell the program to the public enough. Too much competition for entertainment dollar to just be Iowa men's basketball and people show up like 30 years ago.

Believe it or not, Fran is funny and pretty easy going away from the bench. He can do it if he chooses to do it.

I think it's well within Beth Goetz's right to ask that of him. If he refuses and the attendance continues dropping, then she should consider a change because you would have a coach unwilling to help.

This might be a column idea. :)
Click to expand...
I guess my suspicion was correct. Most (on this board) are happy with the current program. Not sure that would be true with the majority of Hawkeye fans as attendance and increasing apathy would indicate

Let me just respond to some of the thoughts expressed above. First to resist change for fear of being worse is just lame. Most things in life that lead to improvement comes with risk. Fran runs a clean program and seems to be liked by most. The Athletic Director makes a lot of money to hire good people to run the programs and I guess I trust them to make good decisions. Barta wasn't good at it, but Elliot made some great hires. Hopefully our new AD can do the same.
As far as comparing Ferentz and McCaffrey I don't think there is a comparison. Ferentz is on the way out but he has had a great run at Iowa winning titles and a lot of bowl games. Very likely Hall of Fame coach
McCaffrey has won one tournament championship and been abysmal in March. Sure he has won more games than any other Iowa coach but has lost more as well. I would submit that he would not be still coaching at any other school in the league with his record. Well maybe Northwestern

Maybe we should have this conversation at the end of the year. Got to be better than watching the Clones make a deep run in the tournament
 
RobHowe said:
Exactly. I didn't mention the NIL and resource differences (facilities, etc) between the programs or the level of in-state talent relative to the two sports. Significantly easier to win in football and wrestling than men's basketball at Iowa based on these factors. Women's basketball has more P4 instate prospects and had a generational talent, an international star.

With or without Fran, if there's not a bigger investment in the men's basketball program, Goetz will have to pull a rabbit out of her hat hitting on a lower-level coach. Proven P4 head coaches or top assistants weren't lining up when Fran was hired.

What's changed?
Click to expand...
Is Iowa that bad of a job ya think? I'd be curious of that. I mean it's clearly not a top 15 job but among the jobs that'll probably be available what would it be? To me you shoot for the moon. You look for great coaches that you think might fit. (DeVries had he not just gone to WVU woulda been my first realistic pick but I think he's off the table now) If you can't find him then you take a stab at a young guy who'll probably want to stick around. Gatens, Horner, Oliver what other Hawks are out there in the coaching world?

That'd be a gamble but maybe that'd breath new life into the fan aspect of things. A hungry young coach itching to make their mark who already bleeds black and gold despite being inexperienced or not isn't something I'd be against.
 
I will add one onion to the stew. Fran did not get to the tourney last year. That was understandable given the youth on the team. From what I have seen so far, I believe this year's team is probably a bubble type team. Might make it, might not. I am guessing they get to 20 wins somehow.

However, if Fran has a really down year, like say .500 or below, there would be enough negative momentum in my mind to then make a change. Two year negative trend, general apathy in the fanbase, and Fran is getting up there.

I am not expecting that sort of a season, but it cannot be ruled out from what I have seen so far.
 
BigD said:
It’s sports and it’s suppose to be e fun.

I think many of us are suffering PTSD from the Lick years.
Click to expand...

And perhaps unreasonable expectations

We have not had a recruiting bonanza like George Raveling's last year

When he had BJ Armstrong, Roy Marble, Ed Horton as freshman

And Al Lorenzen was a Sophomore and Garry Wright, Brad Lohaus and Kevin Gamble
were Juniors

All Raveling recruits

Recruiting has never been the same since George Left

Tom Davis really benefited from Raveling's recruits and went 30-5 his first year
 
Westernhawk said:
Great post. I also wonder what the Athletic Department can do to help Fran with this issue. It seems that there are a lot of opportunities to step out of the 1990's in terms of fan experience. Having the students at courtside is a good start.
Click to expand...

Might be more attendance if there were not smart phones and social media
 
I like this year's team, and they are certainly capable of getting 20 wins

They are fun to watch and are perhaps better defenders than one would think

All that said I think Fran might be getting tired of coaching

Wonder why he didn't call a TO when the clowns were making their rally to attempt
to stop their momentum and give the Hawks time to rest
 
thedukeofearl said:
And perhaps unreasonable expectations

We have not had a recruiting bonanza like George Raveling's last year

When he had BJ Armstrong, Roy Marble, Ed Horton as freshman

And Al Lorenzen was a Sophomore and Garry Wright, Brad Lohaus and Kevin Gamble
were Juniors

All Raveling recruits

Recruiting has never been the same since George Left

Tom Davis really benefited from Raveling's recruits and went 30-5 his first year
Click to expand...

That was an awesome team. Tom messed up by not calling a timeout sooner and changing up his defense sooner to stave off the towel sucking coach’s come back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top