Skeptical about mega-conferences

olivecourt

Well-Known Member
I'm not buying the idea that we are moving towards 16-team mega-conferences, either in the immediate or distant future. This is aside from the fact that I don't like the idea-- I actually don't think it will happen, and I think the way this idea is being hyped by the sports media ignores a few important factors. Why don't 16-team conferences make sense?

1. Sharing: If you cut a pizza into 16 slices, each slice will be smaller than if you cut it into 12. Why not just order a bigger pizza, aka, the mega-conference? I don't think that revenue will grow each time you add a team, at least not enough to make it worth cutting an sharing another piece. The revenue grows in two ways: First, by adding a 12th team so you can play a conference championship game; second, by adding a major television market/audience. Deace projects that the Big Ten will add Nebraska, Missouri, and Rutgers... but why wouldn't the Big Ten stop after adding just ONE of those teams? You've still got your conference championship game, and now you only have to split your BTN money 12 ways instead of 14. That's why Rutgers makes so much sense-- add the 12th team and a major market as a bonus. You could also add Nebraska OR Missouri and accept that you aren't capturing a substantially larger TV audience, but at least you can now play a conference championship game. But adding Nebraska and Missouri (or Syracuse and Pitt) ON TOP of Rutgers doesn't add enough revenue to make the extra sharing worthwhile. And that's why Notre Dame is the holy grail-- you get a conference championship game and a NATIONWIDE TV audience, all for only one extra share.

2. Travel takes time and costs money: People talk about Texas as though the other Big Ten teams would just have to schedule one football game there every other year. How about Penn State women's basketball at Texas on a weeknight? That's over 1,500 miles... not exactly like chartering a small plane from Iowa City to Columbus. Baseball, soccer, gymnastics, swimming... all of these sports are required to have a certain number of conference matchups, and the more the athletic department is spending on those teams, the faster they chew up their football/BTN revenue. I haven't even mentioned fan travel yet... how many Michigan State fans do you think are making the trek to Austin? How many Syracuse fans would come to Minneapolis? You take away the opportunities for fans to travel to games and you lose what makes the Big Ten special.

3. Identity: The Big Ten, the SEC, and the PAC-10 are the gold standards for the athletic conferences. The PAC-10 has been the same for 30+ years-- and when they did expand, they added Arizona and ASU, schools from contiguous states. The league has an identity-- big public schools (except USC and Stanford) on the West Coast and Arizona, and it has a presence in every major media market in the Pacific time zone. The SEC has an identity as well-- 10 schools have been in it since the league was formed in the 30s, and Arkansas and South Carolina were added in 1991. You never hear rumors about teams leaving the SEC-- they all fit together. You can look at a map and point to SEC country, just like you can point to Big Ten country.

Does the Big East have an identity? You think basketball, and rightly so, but that's mostly the old Big East. How does South Florida fit in with that tradition? What do schools like Marquette share with Louisville? How fired up do you think the UConn baseball team gets for a Thursday afternoon game at Cincinnati? The Big East, like the Big 12, overexpanded, taking on too many teams too fast, and now they have no identity.

4. The Big 12: If you want a model for how not to expand, look at the old Big 8, which took on four teams with no attention to geography (Ames to Austin is 1,000 miles), identity, traditional rivalries (Oklahoma/Nebraska), or academics (paging Texas Tech). How has it worked out for the original members? Great for Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, which play in the South Division and its huge media markets. OK for Kansas, which now seems to have a pulse on the football field and is developing a basketball rivalry with Texas. Meh for Kansas State and Missouri. Terrible for Colorado and Nebraska.... just terrible. They used to be nationally relevant, and now they are not. We all know how ISU is faring in the Big 12. Now add the fact that they are freaked out (justifiably so) about losing teams only 15 years after they added them, and tell me why the Big 10 should take a similarly cavalier approach to adding teams?

I think a lot of the 14- and 16-team stuff that's being thrown around is a smokescreen to put pressure on certain schools, especially Notre Dame. Ultimately, I see the Big Ten adding one school, and then they other conferences playing musical chairs to replace the member they lose. I could also see the PAC-10 going to 12 teams and trying for a TV network, although I think they would do so with care and caution. I do not think the era of the mega-conference is at hand, now or in the future.
 
You make good points, but I think that if one of the major conferences goes to 16, we will quickly see 4 conferences of 16 (maybe 5 if the MWC jumps). There are 65 teams in BCS conferences, so four conferences of 16 leaves out just one team. It seems to work too well mathematically to ignore (although, things that seem to work well on paper often don't work well in reality).
 
You make good points, but I think that if one of the major conferences goes to 16, we will quickly see 4 conferences of 16 (maybe 5 if the MWC jumps). There are 65 teams in BCS conferences, so four conferences of 16 leaves out just one team. It seems to work too well mathematically to ignore (although, things that seem to work well on paper often don't work well in reality).
Does that one team (ISU) become a mid-major then, considering they play like one right now?
 
Does that one team (ISU) become a mid-major then, considering they play like one right now?
If there are 16 team conferences there wil NOT be 5 conferences. If there were 5 confereences then that would add 15 more teams into the BCS fold. Teams that likely do not have the TV sets or budget to help contribute.

I predict there will be four 16 team conferences. The SEC, The BIG 10, THe Pac 10, and the ACC.

Iowa State WILL get left out of a BCS conference because they will be totally isolated when MO, and NEBBY come to the big 10.

ISU will join the MWC which will not have a TV network and their program will take a huge hit in the financial dept. They will Lose their Bi-yearly games with Nebby and Missouri and fail to generate any money at the gate save every other year with iowa. Iowa will crush them every year in Football. If a HS kid is good at football he will Go to Iowa if Iowa wants him. (hey this is just like the good old days) ISUs recruiting talent will tank thus worsening their position. Game day in Ames will be like it was in the mid 80's....desolate and drunk. The day is coming where we will return to being able to joke openly with ISU fans about their football program and they will sheepishly take part in the fun...in fact, just like the good old days, the best Iowa State football jokes will come from Iowa State fans themselves. Life will return to the way it was intended and there will not be that festering boil called AMes Iowa bothering us anymore. Thanks be to God.
 
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If there are 16 team conferences there wil NOT be 5 conferences. If there were 5 confereences then that would add 15 more teams into the BCS fold. Teams that likely do not have the TV sets or budget to help contribute.

I predict there will be four 16 team conferences. The SEC, The BIG 10, THe Pac 10, and the ACC.

Iowa State WILL get left out of a BCS conference because they will be totally isolated when MO, and NEBBY come to the big 10.

ISU will join the MWC which will not have a TV network and their program will take a huge hit in the financial dept. They will Lose their Bi-yearly games with Nebby and Missouri and fail to generate any money at the gate save every other year with iowa. Iowa will crush them every year in Football. If a HS kid is good at football he will Go to Iowa if Iowa wants him. (hey this is just like the good old days) ISUs recruiting talent will tank thus worsening their position. Game day in Ames will be like it was in the mid 80's....desolate and drunk.

Personally, I would hate to see this. I don't hate ISU, I root for them anytime they aren't playing the Hawks (every game they win makes us look better for beating them). I don't want things to be THAT one-sided in this rivalry. It's much healthier for the rivalry if ISU can stay at least respectable.
 
I don't want things to be THAT one-sided in this rivalry. It's much healthier for the rivalry if ISU can stay at least respectable.
I don't care about Iowa State AND when the Rivalry was a Joke Iowa wasn't any worse of than now. In fact our last #1 ranking in Football was in '85 when ISU's Junior Varsity team got beat 77-7 by Ellsworth. (no longer JV football)

And their Varsity had less talent than Drake.
 
I don't care about Iowa State AND when the Rivalry was a Joke Iowa wasn't any worse of than now. In fact our last #1 ranking in Football was in '85 when ISU's Junior Varsity team got beat 77-7 by Ellsworth. (no longer JV football)

And their Varsity had less talent than Drake.

I'm not saying that the health of the rivalry (or lack thereof) hurts or helps Iowa. I just like to see good rivalry games. I don't like watching blowouts. That's just boring to me.
 
(every game they win makes us look better for beating them)..
Every time we play them our strength of Schedule takes a hit.

Every time they play in Iowa City they Get 20% of the Gate

Every time we play in AMes we get 20% of the Gate.

You do the math...I dislike them because they are a phoney.
 
I'm not saying that the health of the rivalry (or lack thereof) hurts or helps Iowa. I just like to see good rivalry games. I don't like watching blowouts. That's just boring to me.
Seeing Iowa blow ISU out is NEVER boring.

In fact I thought it was fun watching Brandon Wegher get some serious Carrys last year.
 
Seeing Iowa blow ISU out is NEVER boring.

In fact I thought it was fun watching Brandon Wegher get some serious Carrys last year.

It's plenty boring, because it's no different than any other blowout. As a college student who doesn't drink (I'm an alien, I know), there's not much fun in watching a boring football game against ISU. What's everybody going to do before, during, and after a game like that? Just partying it up. That's not fun to me at all. I like to watch good football, and would much rather see a good football game than watch people try to stand up and cheer for a TD that puts us up by 30.
 
I'm not saying that the health of the rivalry (or lack thereof) hurts or helps Iowa. I just like to see good rivalry games. I don't like watching blowouts. That's just boring to me.

A strong rivalry with ISU hurts Iowa without a doubt. In a small state like Iowa, with few BCS caliber recruits, when we lose a recruit to ISU it really hurts us. When Iowa pounds ISU every year in football, we lose few recruits to ISU. When the teams are evenly matched, we lose several recruits to ISU. Do you think Nebraska would have ever been a national power had they had to share in state recruits with an evenly matched Nebraska State?

There is only two ways in which Big Ten expansion helps Iowa:

First, if Missouri, a net exporter of BCS recruits (because of its much larger population and having only one BCS school) joins the Big Ten, Iowa will suddenly be able to recruit large numbers of Missouri kids to come to Iowa, just as we are able to recruit large numbers of Illinois kids to come to Iowa today.

Second, if ISU gets left out in the cold and is no longer in a BCS conference, Iowa won't have to worry about losing recruits to ISU anymore than we worry about losing recruits to UNI. Sorry you ISU lovers, but ISU taking a big step back would sure help Iowa's ability to sustain the success we are currently enjoying.
 
A strong rivalry with ISU hurts Iowa without a doubt. In a small state like Iowa, with few BCS caliber recruits, when we lose a recruit to ISU it really hurts us. When Iowa pounds ISU every year in football, we lose few recruits to ISU. When the teams are evenly matched, we lose several recruits to ISU. Do you think Nebraska would have ever been a national power had they had to share in state recruits with an evenly matched Nebraska State?

There is only two ways in which Big Ten expansion helps Iowa:

First, if Missouri, a net exporter of BCS recruits (because of its much larger population and having only one BCS school) joins the Big Ten, Iowa will suddenly be able to recruit large numbers of Missouri kids to come to Iowa, just as we are able to recruit large numbers of Illinois kids to come to Iowa today.

Second, if ISU gets left out in the cold and is no longer in a BCS conference, Iowa won't have to worry about losing recruits to ISU anymore than we worry about losing recruits to UNI. Sorry you ISU lovers, but ISU taking a big step back would sure help Iowa's ability to sustain the success we are currently enjoying.

I guess I'm just a guy that likes competetition more than total dominance. I find the journey to corner the market very exciting and fun. I just feel that it's boring once you succeed at doing it.
 
It's plenty boring, because it's no different than any other blowout. As a college student who doesn't drink (I'm an alien, I know), there's not much fun in watching a boring football game against ISU. What's everybody going to do before, during, and after a game like that? Just partying it up. That's not fun to me at all. I like to watch good football, and would much rather see a good football game than watch people try to stand up and cheer for a TD that puts us up by 30.

Let's save our close games for Ohio State and Penn State.

I just don't get this idea that any win by more than 10 points is boring. Maybe it is boring to the casual, fair weather fan, but to someone who cares about and understands most everything that a team is trying to do on the field, watching a team click on all cylinders is a thing a beauty.

If my boss wants to pay me $10,000 more than I need to survive, I don't hand that money back to my boss and tell him "it's more exciting for me to just eke it out." Similarly, if the Hawks want to win by more than one point, its okay by me. I will still enjoy the game just as much--probably even more.
 
You're missing a huge piece of the puzzle with regard to revenue. It's not just championship game + new market. There's also 1) renegotiated coverage fees in existing markets + 2) increased advertising dollars based on one key thing: More live events.

Live events are what makes a sports network work. If all ESPN had was games once a week and then SportsCenter and PTI every other night, the network wouldn't make nearly the amount of money they do. With more teams, you'd have more live events. You'll have Thursday football, or games 5 nights a week during basketball season, not to mention more coverage of non-revenue sports.

It's not just about new revenue bases - it's about growing the existing ones. And more live events are the key to that.
 
Let's save our close games for Ohio State and Penn State.

I just don't get this idea that any win by more than 10 points is boring. Maybe it is boring to the casual, fair weather fan, but to someone who cares about and understands most everything that a team is trying to do on the field, watching a team click on all cylinders is a thing a beauty.

If my boss wants to pay me $10,000 more than I need to survive, I don't hand that money back to my boss and tell him "it's more exciting for me to just eke it out." Similarly, if the Hawks want to win by more than one point, its okay by me. I will still enjoy the game just as much--probably even more.

I'm not a fair-weather fan, not even close. But teams can click on all cylinders and not blow a team out. It's just gets to the point where you can't even brag about winning a game against ISU. What does that say? If they get as bad as some of you want, it says absolutely nothing to beat them, whether by 1 point or 100. I don't want to watch "rivalries" where the outcome is already decided and doesn't matter every year. I also didn't say "any win by more than 10 points is boring". I'm fine with 14-21 point wins. But if ISU gets as bad as you make it sound, it'll be much more like it used to be, winning by 40 every year.

The fair-weather fans are the ones who ONLY show up when the team is dominating. I'm behind the team every year, no matter what. I've missed ONE Iowa game since November of 2002 (Syracuse 2007). And I like good football. Dominating all the time isn't fun. It makes it easy to stop driving for success. When there's room for improvement, there's no reason to lose that drive. But making that room for improvement be "we should have won by 50, not 40" isn't fun at all.
 
LIke the Nebraska scenario, The existance of ISU to Iowa does NOTHING but hurt Iowa. Period. TWO BCS conference schools in our tiny state is actually a BAD think in regards to recruiting players. Like I said ISU is nothing more than a festering boil to the Iowa Program.
 
I guess I'm just a guy that likes competetition more than total dominance. I find the journey to corner the market very exciting and fun. I just feel that it's boring once you succeed at doing it.

Iowa has NEVER exhibited total dominance in football in the Big Ten (at least since the early 1920s). We need all the help we can get just to annually be in contention for a Big Ten championship. Having a strong ISU (and a strong rivalry with ISU) hurts our ability to recruit in the state, and as such hurts our ability to contend for Big Ten championships.

I certainly hope aren't saying that we should hamstring our program just so we can have close games with ISU every year, just because you find them exciting.

Bottom line. We aren't ever going to be dominant in the Big Ten. And, a strong ISU hurts our ability to compete for Big Ten championships. I would rather compete for Big Ten championships most seasons than have a nice, even little rivalry with ISU. In other words, the exciting and fun journey that I enjoy making is called the trip to the Big Ten title.
 
Iowa has NEVER exhibited total dominance in football in the Big Ten (at least since the early 1920s). We need all the help we can get just to annually be in contention for a Big Ten championship. Having a strong ISU (and a strong rivalry with ISU) hurts our ability to recruit in the state, and as such hurts our ability to contend for Big Ten championships.

I certainly hope aren't saying that we should hamstring our program just so we can have close games with ISU every year, just because you find them exciting.

Bottom line. We aren't ever going to be dominant in the Big Ten. And, a strong ISU hurts our ability to compete for Big Ten championships. I would rather compete for Big Ten championships most seasons than have a nice, even little rivalry with ISU. In other words, the exciting and fun journey that I enjoy making is called the trip to the Big Ten title.

I meant dominance in regards to ISU, not the Big Ten. And I'm not saying ISU needs to be the second coming of Tom Osborne's Huskers. But 6-6 or 7-5 ISU teams are good enough. I don't want to beat up on a team that goes 1-11 every year.
 
I meant dominance in regards to ISU, not the Big Ten. And I'm not saying ISU needs to be the second coming of Tom Osborne's Huskers. But 6-6 or 7-5 ISU teams are good enough. I don't want to beat up on a team that goes 1-11 every year.

I understand what you are saying and am mostly just giving you a hard time. My point, however, is that a 6-6 or 7-5 ISU hurts our ability to compete in the Big Ten, because a 6-6 or 7-5 ISU is going to be able to recruit at least a player or two that would have otherwise come to Iowa and made a positive contribution to our success.
 
I understand what you are saying and am mostly just giving you a hard time. My point, however, is that a 6-6 or 7-5 ISU hurts our ability to compete in the Big Ten, because a 6-6 or 7-5 ISU is going to be able to recruit at least a player or two that would have otherwise come to Iowa and made a positive contribution to our success.

I understand that point. I have a hard time thinking of too many in-state guys that would have made a big difference for us outside of Bret Meyer, Todd Blythe, and Lane Danielson. And we were set at QB and WR while those guys were in school. We had Drew Tate, Solomon/Hinkel, and Jones/Brown when the ISU guys played. They wouldn't have made THAT big of a difference.
 

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