OT: F@$& The NFL

Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
Follow the $$.... Who's paying the docs that are clearing guys like Tua to play to begin with? Be it the team or the league they have the same agenda. Get the best players on the field. That's it. As a fan honestly this may seem crass but I don't care. I don't. They are all adults making decisions for themselves. If a guy that does that for a living doesn't understand then that's on him. But most all of them do. So I'm not going to get bent out of shape over it. If Tua wants to retire early or play next week that's on him the team and the league. I'll watch with or without him.
I get all this with the known risk factor and all but they still shouldn't be playing Thursday night. That should be the first thing to go at the next collective bargaining and I don't care what the players have to give up in return. And if the docs are getting paid off to clear players who shouldn't be playing that's a whole other issue.

For the record, the doctor who cleared Tuo to play has been canned. He was an "unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant" but still funded partially by the NFLPA. Let the backpedaling begin.

You say they are "adults making decisions for themselves". But are they making those decisions with all the information? I suspect that if the players union had access to what the NFL knows about brain trauma there would be many more players turning their backs on the league or retiring early. Is that how the league follows the $$? By hiding crucial data? I'm all for capitalism and businesses making all they can make but its a two way street. I don't want them to cry foul if the pendulum ever swings and attendance and ratings fall. That's the inherent risk you take on the business side. Look what's happened to boxing the last 40-50 years.
 
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Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
I’m a Vikings fan since I can remember being aware, but I watch effectively zero nfl now. If the Vikings are on I may watch casually, but I’d rather nap.

The nfl game is one of the most boring products there are. It’s set up for parity and parity is boring. College football is orders of magnitude more exciting both in person and on tv.

So I guess you could say I’m doing my part…I haven’t spent a dime on the nfl or any of it’s licensed products that I can remember and don’t plan to n
In addition to being set up for boring parity it is also set up for small market teams to compete with the big boys. (Hence Green Bay kicking Chicago's ass the past thirty years).

IF you can hit on the quarterback position. Few teams can win a super bowl with an average QB. But average teams have won them with a great QB.

Some teams through scouting, drafting, and luck, hit at the QB position time and time again (Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City) others never hit (Chicago, the Jets) it goes a long way toward explaining how some franchises perennially compete despite the rules stacked against them, and why others dont.
 

KCHawkeye

Well-Known Member
In addition to being set up for boring parity it is also set up for small market teams to compete with the big boys. (Hence Green Bay kicking Chicago's ass the past thirty years).

IF you can hit on the quarterback position. Few teams can win a super bowl with an average QB. But average teams have won them with a great QB.

Some teams through scouting, drafting, and luck, hit at the QB position time and time again (Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City) others never hit (Chicago, the Jets) it goes a long way toward explaining how some franchises perennially compete despite the rules stacked against them, and why others dont.
I agree with most of this. I think a talented QB is a must (which can be a crap shoot), but coaching has to run the offense to best use the QB's talents and what talents he has around him.
 

trj

Well-Known Member
I've heard nationally famous radio talk show hosts admit that they feel like hypocrites for not being able to turn away from their weekly fix of football violence, even as they have a good idea what this is doing to the player's brains.

They've admitted that it's not the game that hooks them in, it's the violence of the game. The gladiator mentality.

Do I feel dirty for loving the college game but getting on my soapbox about the NFL? Good question. But it seems on the surface that at least the NCAA has more common sense about dealing with concussed players. And not scheduling games too close together. And moving or postponing them when something the magnitude of Hurricane Ian passes through. The NFL has basically told southwest Florida "Hey, we don't give a rat's ass what just happened to your cities-we have an agenda down here and revenue to generate and Goddammit were going to generate it. We're gonna clog up your damaged roads and your hotels that essential personnel are trying to stay in and the whole kit and kaboodle".

They should take all gate receipts and TV revenue from this game and put it back into the Ian relief fund, the American Red Cross, anything. Those of you who lived through that Iowa dericho two years ago. How would you have felt if it had struck the highway 20 corridor and you were trying to asses your situation and MLB then brought its Field Of Dreams posse in? The only thing that cancelled the inagural game the week of that derecho was covid.


The league is a 12 billion dollars a year juggernaut and it ain't slowing down anytime soon. Two-thirds of the states now have legalize sports wagering, which only increases the interest. You can get on your soapbox, but players get 40% of the revenue, which means eventually an 18 game regular season schedule without that much push back.

Everytime a billionaire owner holds a city hostage for a new stadium I just shrug my shoulders. We all know what is going on and yet we continue to watch.
 
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Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
The league is a 12 billion dollars a year juggernaut and it ain't slowing down anytime soon. Two-thirds of the states now have legalize sports wagering, which only increases the interest. You can get on your soapbox, but players get 40% of the revenue, which means eventually an 18 game regular season schedule without that much push back.

Everytime a billion dollar owner holds a city hostage for a new stadium I just shrug my shoulders. We all know what is going on and yet we continue to watch.
I wonder if the players would ever agree to cut the 40% to 20% in exchange for deferred payments for life after football and covered medical expenses.

I remember former lineman Kyle Turley once saying that when he retired he needed four major surgeries. And he had 12 months to get them covered by the NFL. And he retired at least ten years ago.
 

okeefe4prez

Well-Known Member
I’m a Vikings fan since I can remember being aware, but I watch effectively zero nfl now. If the Vikings are on I may watch casually, but I’d rather nap.

The nfl game is one of the most boring products there are. It’s set up for parity and parity is boring. College football is orders of magnitude more exciting both in person and on tv.

So I guess you could say I’m doing my part…I haven’t spent a dime on the nfl or any of it’s licensed products that I can remember and don’t plan to n

I haven't watched an NFL regular season game in years. I will watch very late in the playoffs.

I quit watching because there are too many commercials, the o-line play is awful because no team will spend money on guards, and the offensive strategy is to just heave it up and pray for a catch or PI.

Sports is made more interesting when there is variability. A little league baseball game with a 9 run deficit and the pitcher of the leading team hitting his pitch count has a lot of variability and is more exciting than regular season NFL.
 

marshallcart

Well-Known Member
If you complain about the NFL and its lack of integrity, then say how much you love the NCAA, that is pure hypocrisy
 

Fryowa

Administrator
If you complain about the NFL and its lack of integrity, then say how much you love the NCAA, that is pure hypocrisy
For the record I myself never said anything about integrity. All sports from high school on up are corrupt at a level relative to the amount of money generated.

I merely said the NFL is boring and not fun to watch.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
I get all this with the known risk factor and all but they still shouldn't be playing Thursday night. That should be the first thing to go at the next collective bargaining and I don't care what the players have to give up in return. And if the docs are getting paid off to clear players who shouldn't be playing that's a whole other issue.

For the record, the doctor who cleared Tuo to play has been canned. He was an "unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant" but still funded partially by the NFLPA. Let the backpedaling begin.

You say they are "adults making decisions for themselves". But are they making those decisions with all the information? I suspect that if the players union had access to what the NFL knows about brain trauma there would be many more players turning their backs on the league or retiring early. Is that how the league follows the $$? By hiding crucial data? I'm all for capitalism and businesses making all they can make but its a two way street. I don't want them to cry foul if the pendulum ever swings and attendance and ratings fall. That's the inherent risk you take on the business side. Look what's happened to boxing the last 40-50 years.
It's 2022. If players aren't self educated on the gist of it then.... Their own agents should be educating them on it. They may not know all the nitty gritty specifics but the gist of it being that banging your head into the ground and each other over and over isn't good for you and has risks. It doesn't take a guy with a 7 yr degree to know that.

That doctor that was fired you mentioned I wonder if that'll be the end of that. He almost feels like a patsy to me. What's in it for him to be that bad at his job? He probably got PAID$$$$. So the NFL & Dolphins can be like yup this guy is at fault not us... Call me cynical I suppose. But you mean to tell me that the NFL/NFLPA has hired doctors that can't tell the difference between a back injury and a head injury/concussion? That's with hindsight of having seen what all happened. So yeah that's gotta be the most unlikely thing in all of this to me. Sure docs are human but to find one that bad at his job seems highly unlikely to me. Finding one that's greedy and willing to risk their career for a bunch of $ however.... That's human nature.
 

okeefe4prez

Well-Known Member
Finding one that's greedy and willing to risk their career for a bunch of $ however.... That's human nature.

This is a bridge too far. I can't think of a single instance of anyone involved in the delivery of healthcare from doctors to hospital groups to pharma companies ever doing anything that didn't further delivering high quality care at a reasonable price with absolutely zero consideration of pecuniary matters.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
That doctor that was fired you mentioned I wonder if that'll be the end of that. He almost feels like a patsy to me.
Yup. The NFL got its tit in a PR ringer and somebody had to be the fall guy.

My dudes...

At the end of the day, there's enough information out there that these guys know the risks going in. They may be idiots for accepting such high risks, but let's not act like it's 1983 and no one knows what a concussion is or what the cumulative effects are. They've seen Belcher and Seau and Sash and the Fridge and Shazier and Earl Campbell and on and on and on.

Players today know that Jim McMahon is a vegetable and so is Bernie Kosar and so is Brett Favre, and a whole gaggle of new players will be each year. These guys' personalities are wired such that they crave the adrenaline, fame, and money that come along with it, and if they want to roll the dice it's ultimately their choice. It's literally no different than someone who choses to smoke cigarettes or eat 2 McDoubles a day.

No difference whatsoever.
 

okeefe4prez

Well-Known Member
Yup. The NFL got its tit in a PR ringer and somebody had to be the fall guy.

I ain't got cable or streaming or anything, but my gym has ESPN on at all times so I catch a few minutes of that per day. Watching the talking heads try to dig deeper than the last guy with their disgust and indignity was just comical. "WHILE I RESPECT YOUR OPINION, I AM EVEN MORE UPSET BY THIS THAN YOU..."
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
This is a bridge too far. I can't think of a single instance of anyone involved in the delivery of healthcare from doctors to hospital groups to pharma companies ever doing anything that didn't further delivering high quality care at a reasonable price with absolutely zero consideration of pecuniary matters.
Is it though? I mean who is the guy? Is he a younger guy? Or an older guy at the end of his career? I think we'd all like to think so but just the other day they showed on the news some quack who was poisoning patients through IVs. I know we like to put these folks up high and think they are above reproach. And many of them are. But not all of them are...
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
So I get being upset about Tua's situation, but regardless of where we stand as many have pointed out the information is out there. We can be as pissed as we want about whether staff/doctors knew about it or whether they turned a blind eye, but at the same time we don't know to what extent Tua may have potentially manipulated things to get back on the field in the event he truly was medically cleared. Players know the risk, but we also know they have the mentality of "if I can play, I'm going to" so I'm not in a position of knowing enough to blame one side or the other.

I do question the singling out of the NFL though in terms of the game being played in Tampa. I agree that sports should be on the back burner of the hurricane, but what is the difference between Tampa and the league deciding to host the game rather than relocate it, as opposed to NCAA games being bumped up so the game can be played early or pushing them back. I'm not quite sure what the answer is with regards to the hurricane itself and whether games should/shouldn't be played, but I'm not sure how the NFL can be deemed wrong for deciding to keep it in Tampa, but there's no outrage for the college schedule that was manipulated so that the games could still be played. Just my two cents.
 

thedukeofearl

Well-Known Member
Yup. The NFL got its tit in a PR ringer and somebody had to be the fall guy.

My dudes...

At the end of the day, there's enough information out there that these guys know the risks going in. They may be idiots for accepting such high risks, but let's not act like it's 1983 and no one knows what a concussion is or what the cumulative effects are. They've seen Belcher and Seau and Sash and the Fridge and Shazier and Earl Campbell and on and on and on.

Players today know that Jim McMahon is a vegetable and so is Bernie Kosar and so is Brett Favre, and a whole gaggle of new players will be each year. These guys' personalities are wired such that they crave the adrenaline, fame, and money that come along with it, and if they want to roll the dice it's ultimately their choice. It's literally no different than someone who choses to smoke cigarettes or eat 2 McDoubles a day.

No difference whatsoever.

:cool:
 
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