Nebraska is going to upset MSU this Sat (change my mind)

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
There is most definitely a way for Nebbie to win this game. I have watched all 4 games and they have a good defense. They have a stout DL and playmakers in the secondary.

If Martinez is making good decisions, their offense is serviceable. But, their OL is below average for sure.

The reason they lose is that they are the most undisciplined team on the planet. It is crazy how dumb this team plays at times, and it has been that way for 3+ years. If they can stop shooting themselves in the foot for 4 quarters, they have the talent to beat MSU. For sure.
 

Luftgekuehlt67

Well-Known Member
Personally, I think the best thing that could happen as far as our collective enjoyment of Nebraska's suffering is for Frost to win just enough games this year to make Nebraska fans and administrators go, "well...I dunno...maybe".

Everyone *thinks* they want Nebraska to go down and flames, but that's just 1 season's worth of entertainment and you also have to factor in the risk of them replacing Frost with someone halfway competent. Noted coaching savants Bo Pelini and Barney Cotton went 3-1 against the Hawks, don't forget. Mike Riley and Scott Frost have combined to go 0-6.

On the other hand, Iowa's 3 wins against Scott Frost has been by a combined 12 points, so maybe we should be rooting to get him dumped, cuz it's been uncomfortably close lately.

I don't know what to think anymore. I do still think Nebraska has a real chance @ MSU though.
 

99topdawg

Well-Known Member
I am 100% positive that UN will destroy MSU this weekend and I say that because I am always wrong.

Also, I do realize that it's supposed to be NU and not UN. I lived out there and I know how much it pisses them off.
 

ssckelley

Well-Known Member
Personally, I think the best thing that could happen as far as our collective enjoyment of Nebraska's suffering is for Frost to win just enough games this year to make Nebraska fans and administrators go, "well...I dunno...maybe".

Everyone *thinks* they want Nebraska to go down and flames, but that's just 1 season's worth of entertainment and you also have to factor in the risk of them replacing Frost with someone halfway competent. Noted coaching savants Bo Pelini and Barney Cotton went 3-1 against the Hawks, don't forget. Mike Riley and Scott Frost have combined to go 0-6.

On the other hand, Iowa's 3 wins against Scott Frost has been by a combined 12 points, so maybe we should be rooting to get him dumped, cuz it's been uncomfortably close lately.

I don't know what to think anymore. I do still think Nebraska has a real chance @ MSU though.

Nebraska has shot themselves in the foot too many times expecting their coach to be the next Tom Osborne. They fired TWO coaches (Solich and Pelini) that was having great success at a school and in a state that did not deserve it. Nebraska has become a dumpster fire for college football coaches, which top coach would risk it? They are not attracting the top recruits like they used too when they were in the B12, they can't draw kids from Texas/Oklahoma because none of them get to see Nebraska play anymore. The kids they are now recruiting were born about 10 years after Nebraska won their last NC.

If they fire Frost it keeps the dumpster fire blazing and I don't see top coaches lining up to be interviewed there. Either way I'm enjoying the hell out of this. They came into the Big Ten expecting to walk all over us and the opposite happened.
 

haydensly

Well-Known Member
There is most definitely a way for Nebbie to win this game. I have watched all 4 games and they have a good defense. They have a stout DL and playmakers in the secondary.

If Martinez is making good decisions, their offense is serviceable. But, their OL is below average for sure.

The reason they lose is that they are the most undisciplined team on the planet. It is crazy how dumb this team plays at times, and it has been that way for 3+ years. If they can stop shooting themselves in the foot for 4 quarters, they have the talent to beat MSU. For sure.
You beat me to the punch. They continue to make it extremely hard on themselves. If they get their stuff together they might start winning some of these close games.

I thought their defense was actually very good last Saturday against OK. Martinez, as inconsistent as he is, seems to play well against us.
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
No idea what to expect out of that game. MSU's marquee win was against a 1-2 Miami team that got curb stomped by Bama and beat App. St. by 2 at home before getting hammered by MSU.

And Nebby is still going to be Nebby. Sure they might look better, but better than what? We still have no idea how good Oklahoma is and I"m not so sure blow outs against Fordham and Buffalo mean anything other than they've played 2 cupcakes. They also lost to Illinois who got bit by UTSA the following week.

This game has me totally in the dark. I may have to flip a coin and use one of these juggernauts as my choice in this weeks survival pick.
 

ChosenChildren

Well-Known Member
The problem with Nebraska is pretty simple: They make too many mistakes (fumbles; INTs; dumb penalties; etc. etc.).

They certainly are capable of beating MSU but it won't happen unless they play a clean game. I don't see it.

MSU is really good, by the way. Thorne the QB is way above average, and their OL and running backs have been impressive.

MSU 24 Nebby 21
 

Fryowa

Administrator
...you also have to factor in the risk of them replacing Frost with someone halfway competent.
Fair point, but I think we can all agree that (especially with the position nebraska is in right now) there's a much, much greater chance that they end up with a burnt turd for a coach. There are literally thousands of Mike Reillys in the college coaching ranks and maybe 6-7 guys who have what it takes to build a program.

And to be honest, I don't think that coaching is the number one problem at nebraska anymore. It's recruiting. We've seen the quality of the product they put on the field deteriorate steadily over the years, and I really believe it's because they 1) don't have a scholarship advantage anymore since limits were instituted, and 2) well, it's nebraska. They haven't been relevant nationally since before the current crop of high schoolers were born. Yeah, they were average to above average, but so were a whole lot of other programs.

Right now, there is literally nothing compelling to draw good recruits into that sand hill wasteland. Hot in the summer, cold and snowy in the winter, nothing to do but go hang out at the local Runza, and nothing to see for hundreds of miles but corn and bean fields. One could argue for a rabid fanbase, but that only really works when you are semi-successful. It's an advantage that Iowa has. A rabid fanbase with very few losing seasons.

One could also argue their decent recruiting rankings. Which are complete bullshit. All you have to do is look at Wisconsin's average recruiting ranking relative to their conference finish and see that those guys in rivals and 24/7 are just basement dwellers cranking out ratings and articles for 20 bucks a pop. It's ludicrous to think that beyond the top 3 or 4 recruits at each position (which nebraska nor Iowa will get) that you can distinguish recruits, especially when one service tries to cover an entire country. You expect people to believe that some dude (who doesn't even do recruiting coverage full time, I went into a bunch of their bios in a previous post) living in New Jersey knows the difference between the 27th rated DB in California and the 18th rated DB in Florida? Gimme a break. Those rankings are as useful as hen shit on a pump handle. It's also pretty apparent that when you notice that nebraska's best recruits either quit the team and leave, transfer, or get arrested for drugs, assault, sex assault, or...I dunno...videotaping a rape and sending it to the girl as an insult??? Looking at you, Maurice Washington. But what else would we expect from a guy of Scott Frost's character?

At the end of the day, no one is going to turn that thing around unless they luck into the next Saban. That's what it would take and that's how bad it is. And let's not pretend that anyone at LSU knew how good Nick Saban was when they hired him. He was mediocre at best at Michigan State.
 

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
Disagree that Nebbie is the lost cause that Fry and others think that it is. We have seen a ton of blue chip programs go through the crapper, but this one is certainly lengthier than most. While the current crop of recruits was not alive when Osbourne was coach, Bo Pelini went 58-24 and was fired 6 years ago. He had 3 ten win seasons. So, it was not that long ago that Nebraska was a pretty good program and nationally relevant, at least marginally. They have just shown hubris in their coaching decisions. They never should have fired the college guys they had in place in favor of the NFL gurus that came in and pissed on their culture.

Recruiting isn't what it was, but they still recruit better talent than Iowa and have a farther national recruiting reach. They just don't find fit and development guys the way that Iowa does (and that almost no program does)The biggest reason that they have struggled to recruit of late is that they have sucked so bad of late. Winning games will open more doors.

I am rooting for Frost to fail this year, get fired, and hope that the next guy is also a shit sandwich. I think Nebbie can attract a good coach given the facilities, weak division, resources and rabid fan base, but as Fry points out all the time, picking the right coach is a crapshoot as best. As a Husker Hater, I would much rather take my chances with a new coach, than Frost showing some signs of life and build momentum and continuity over the next couple seasons. He is still a guy that ran the (weak) table at UCF, and he can unite that fan base if he can find a way to win. He fucked up with his original coaching staff, but has made changes, and his defense has certainly gotten a lot better. One could argue he has been snake bit at times. I want him out before his luck turns.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Recruiting isn't what it was, but they still recruit better talent than Iowa and have a farther national recruiting reach. They just don't find fit and development guys the way that Iowa does (and that almost no program does)
Hol' up...

Based on what? Recruiting rankings? lolsies.

Some dude who works as a stand-up comic and writes recruiting articles for 24/7 for a flat fee based on quantity (apparently because he's not funny enough to earn a living at it), who has never played football, coached football, or been employed by an actual media company (yes, that's one of many of the bios for these guys that I've posted here, and this guy was one of their "national" recruiting "experts") knows that nebraska's DB or QB is better because he thinks he's the 84th best in the country vs Iowa's 92nd best DB recruit?

Give us even a sliver of confidence in your opinion that they recruit better talent...I'm waiting eagerly for this one...

Recruiting isn't what it was, but they still recruit better talent than Iowa and have a farther national recruiting reach. They just don't find fit and development guys the way that Iowa does (and that almost no program does)
You'd have a valid point if their guys from farther out performed better at the college or even professional level, but they don't. Try again.

Recruiting isn't what it was, but they still recruit better talent than Iowa and have a farther national recruiting reach. They just don't find fit and development guys the way that Iowa does (and that almost no program does)
Doesn't that literally mean they don't recruit as good of talent as Iowa?
 

ssckelley

Well-Known Member
Disagree that Nebbie is the lost cause that Fry and others think that it is. We have seen a ton of blue chip programs go through the crapper, but this one is certainly lengthier than most. While the current crop of recruits was not alive when Osbourne was coach, Bo Pelini went 58-24 and was fired 6 years ago. He had 3 ten win seasons. So, it was not that long ago that Nebraska was a pretty good program and nationally relevant, at least marginally. They have just shown hubris in their coaching decisions. They never should have fired the college guys they had in place in favor of the NFL gurus that came in and pissed on their culture.

I don't believe Nebraska is a lost cause, but it's a dumpster fire because of your last 2 sentences. Nebraska is where they are at now because they have literally destroyed it themselves. The fan base and alumni were not satisfied with bowl games and top 25 finishes every year, they wanted the glory years from the 90s back so they started running through coaches like water. Nebraska used to be a premier destination for coaches, now I don't think a decent coach will come close to Lincoln. As another poster mentioned they will have to find another Nick Saban (MSU) BEFORE they turn into Nick Saban (LSU/Alabama) and then hope they stick around long enough to bring the program back to life.

The recruiting ranks proves they still get talent, the problem is all coaching/development. Nebraska doesn't want to wait around for players to develop into good college athletes they want/need the results right now. Ferentz did his best coaching in 1999, 2000, and 2001 before they started winning.
 

Grady

Well-Known Member
All you have to do is look at Wisconsin's average recruiting ranking relative to their conference finish and see that those guys in rivals and 24/7 are just basement dwellers cranking out ratings and articles for 20 bucks a pop.
I guess you applied and they turned you down, eh?
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
I think it's safe to say the big12 might be a bit overrated when you look at all of their top teams completely shitting the bed or coming close like OU has already. I will be shocked if Nebraska has a the mental capacity to right the ship this season. They are house of cards that is weaker than any other football program I've ever seen. They make up and discover new ways to suck every season. New ways to get into their own way and shoot themselves in the foot. It's hard to overcome incompetence. I don't think MSU's staff has that. They've seemingly got things steered the right way and quickly. . I could see where MSU might be a little over rated, but IMO, NU still sucks regardless.
 

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
Fry, we get it. Anyone who puts out any recruiting information or rankings are nothing more than pimple ass losers living in their parents' basement churning out bullshit reports based solely on Youtube videos for $10 Chick Filet gift cards. We get it. Any discussion of anyone who assigns stars to kids is total bunk. We should base our discussions and opinions solely upon the unsubstantiated thoughts of a moderator on a single fan board.

As I have said over and over: Rankings and stars are not everything, but they are not nothing. And if you look at the correlation between recruiting rankings year over year and success on the field, there is a relationship. Its not exact, but the Jimmys and the Joes matter, and recruiting outfits are not completely inept to identify Jimmys and Joes.

If the basement dwelling rats like Rivals and 247 are not good enough for this Board, there is a small organization in Bristol Connecticut that hacks its way through recruiting rankings as well.

ESPN final rankings the last five years:

2017: Nebbie 21; Iowa 43
2018: Nebbie 21; Iowa 43 (that is not a typo, same rankings two years in a row)
2019 Nebbie 18; Iowa 37
2020: Nebbie 24; Iowa 32
2021: Nebbie 39; Iowa 22

So, while the trend is going wrong for Nebbie, and that makes sense given that they hired a trendy new coach 4 years who has subsequently shit the bed, I stand by my statement that objective standards show that Nebbie recruits at a higher level than Iowa. But, we have a much better head coach. That is why we win.
 

ssckelley

Well-Known Member
Fry, we get it. Anyone who puts out any recruiting information or rankings are nothing more than pimple ass losers living in their parents' basement churning out bullshit reports based solely on Youtube videos for $10 Chick Filet gift cards. We get it. Any discussion of anyone who assigns stars to kids is total bunk. We should base our discussions and opinions solely upon the unsubstantiated thoughts of a moderator on a single fan board.

As I have said over and over: Rankings and stars are not everything, but they are not nothing. And if you look at the correlation between recruiting rankings year over year and success on the field, there is a relationship. Its not exact, but the Jimmys and the Joes matter, and recruiting outfits are not completely inept to identify Jimmys and Joes.

If the basement dwelling rats like Rivals and 247 are not good enough for this Board, there is a small organization in Bristol Connecticut that hacks its way through recruiting rankings as well.

ESPN final rankings the last five years:

2017: Nebbie 21; Iowa 43
2018: Nebbie 21; Iowa 43 (that is not a typo, same rankings two years in a row)
2019 Nebbie 18; Iowa 37
2020: Nebbie 24; Iowa 32
2021: Nebbie 39; Iowa 22

So, while the trend is going wrong for Nebbie, and that makes sense given that they hired a trendy new coach 4 years who has subsequently shit the bed, I stand by my statement that objective standards show that Nebbie recruits at a higher level than Iowa. But, we have a much better head coach. That is why we win.

I think 247 has Nebraska ranked higher than Iowa in 2021 (dang Fidone!) even though I think Iowa had 1 more 4 star.

You are right, these recruiting services are not nothing, you look at the percentage of 4/5 star recruits that wind up in the NFL they are MUCH higher than the 2/3 star players. Nebraska can still land talent but the coaching/development has been terrible and this is where Iowa excels. So if Iowa does start beating Nebraska in the recruiting game the results on the field are gonna continue to be better.

But there are players that these recruiting services miss or under evaluates for whatever reason, Iowa seems to do a good job finding those players and develop them into terrific athletes. But I'll still root for them to land those 4 and 5 star players.
 

Luftgekuehlt67

Well-Known Member
I do fear Nebraska finding a competent coach. Indeed, laughing at Nebraska's misfortune has given me much joy as a Hawk fan over the last few years. But if you don't think this series, in the big picture, isn't on a hair trigger, you're nuts. Haven't 2 of our last 3 wins against them come on last second FGs? I think so. Either way though, as proud as I am of our program, I am not too blind to see how quickly we could be looking up at Nebraska, not the other way around.

That's why I'm in favor of keeping Frost in that seat as long as possible. I hope he marries his beer cart gal and they start a cozy little homestead in Lincoln while Scooter wins *just* enough games that, as AD, you can't...quite...bring yourself...to...fire him.

All that being said, I think the brutal truth for Nebraska football is, even if they *did* blind squirrel their way into an acorn of an up and coming mid major coach, my gut feel is that guy would be out the door for greener pastures after the first B10 West title. Maybe not, but probably gone.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Fry, we get it. Anyone who puts out any recruiting information or rankings are nothing more than pimple ass losers living in their parents' basement churning out bullshit reports based solely on Youtube videos for $10 Chick Filet gift cards. We get it. Any discussion of anyone who assigns stars to kids is total bunk. We should base our discussions and opinions solely upon the unsubstantiated thoughts of a moderator on a single fan board.

As I have said over and over: Rankings and stars are not everything, but they are not nothing. And if you look at the correlation between recruiting rankings year over year and success on the field, there is a relationship. Its not exact, but the Jimmys and the Joes matter, and recruiting outfits are not completely inept to identify Jimmys and Joes.

If the basement dwelling rats like Rivals and 247 are not good enough for this Board, there is a small organization in Bristol Connecticut that hacks its way through recruiting rankings as well.

ESPN final rankings the last five years:

2017: Nebbie 21; Iowa 43
2018: Nebbie 21; Iowa 43 (that is not a typo, same rankings two years in a row)
2019 Nebbie 18; Iowa 37
2020: Nebbie 24; Iowa 32
2021: Nebbie 39; Iowa 22

So, while the trend is going wrong for Nebbie, and that makes sense given that they hired a trendy new coach 4 years who has subsequently shit the bed, I stand by my statement that objective standards show that Nebbie recruits at a higher level than Iowa. But, we have a much better head coach. That is why we win.
Yeah, they are nothing. It’s all mostly bullshit once you get past the top 3-4 recruits in each position, which an Iowa or nebraska aren’t going to get.

Show me the correlation of teams’ recruiting rankings with similar winning percentages to Iowa or nebraska. It’s completely all over the board. Of course Georgia and Clemson and teams like that are going to correlate, they get the very top of the class. After that it’s basically arguing about 23rd vs 24th best or whatever, which is all 100% conjecture. Especially since none of these “reporters” have ever seen the kids in question in person or met them at all, basing everything by a few videos on hudl.
 
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