Miller: How Sports Can Teach

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
His point is that if Joe was the stinky kid or the fat kid and was being made fun of for that it would have been just as detrimental . Kids are dicks.

I'm glad I saw this post after the last one because I was nervous I mis typed something and didnt get my point across well. Joe wasn't offended by the words. He was offended by the meaning behind them. Which I might add was an awful meaning. Kids are dicks.
 

hoxrock

Well-Known Member
The big problem is that young people are being raised and taught how to effectively live as victims. In the last 10 years especially it as become lucrative to be a victim. You have an advantage if you are black, a woman, gay, native american, trans, or whatever "oppressed minority" you want to try and fit yourself into. After you raise enough of these victims the entire population is gaslighted by the media and certain politicians to the point where many feel needlessly guilty and question everything they do and say out of fear it is offensive, and they also question everything they've been taught. It is a form of psychological abuse and it is occurring on a mass level. Dolph is a perfect example. He uses a term he intended to and has always used to praise a dominant player and now his good name is sullied and is forced to apologize not once but twice and also has to go through sensitivity training because HE is somehow the problem. He is not the problem. Our rotten culture that won't stand up to this insanity is the problem. Sorry if this is too political but it is exactly what is going on around us.
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
Nice write up, Jon. Clearly stated principles, good down to earth examples, written under control but with passion. Thank you for your contribution to this on going debate.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
The big problem is that young people are being raised and taught how to effectively live as victims. In the last 10 years especially it as become lucrative to be a victim. You have an advantage if you are black, a woman, gay, native american, trans, or whatever "oppressed minority" you want to try and fit yourself into. After you raise enough of these victims the entire population is gaslighted by the media and certain politicians to the point where many feel needlessly guilty and question everything they do and say out of fear it is offensive, and they also question everything they've been taught. It is a form of psychological abuse and it is occurring on a mass level. Dolph is a perfect example. He uses a term he intended to and has always used to praise a dominant player and now his good name is sullied and is forced to apologize not once but twice and also has to go through sensitivity training because HE is somehow the problem. He is not the problem. Our rotten culture that won't stand up to this insanity is the problem. Sorry if this is too political but it is exactly what is going on around us.

I've changed my opinion a bit. I used to think who cares if people are offended. Now I've eased up on that a bit. If they want to add new words all the time to the "do not say list" then that's fine by me. It's not like I have to obide by that list. I just think its messed up to punish someone who used a word that's not on the list yet. When they ended slavery, they didnt go back and arrest everyone who used to own slaves. They told people to stop doing it and and if they didn't, they would be punished from that point forward.
 

thedukeofearl

Well-Known Member
The big problem is that young people are being raised and taught how to effectively live as victims. In the last 10 years especially it as become lucrative to be a victim. You have an advantage if you are black, a woman, gay, native american, trans, or whatever "oppressed minority" you want to try and fit yourself into. After you raise enough of these victims the entire population is gaslighted by the media and certain politicians to the point where many feel needlessly guilty and question everything they do and say out of fear it is offensive, and they also question everything they've been taught. It is a form of psychological abuse and it is occurring on a mass level. Dolph is a perfect example. He uses a term he intended to and has always used to praise a dominant player and now his good name is sullied and is forced to apologize not once but twice and also has to go through sensitivity training because HE is somehow the problem. He is not the problem. Our rotten culture that won't stand up to this insanity is the problem. Sorry if this is too political but it is exactly what is going on around us.



What should I do with this now

Toss it
 

oregonhawkeye

Well-Known Member
Tremendous stuff Jon. There's nothing so powerful as someone being vulnerable enough to share their shortcomings and growth in public. You did it in real time. Real strength, real manhood. Well done.
 

WestCoastHawk

Well-Known Member
Great write up, Jon.

I've been saying all along that it is possible to believe that Dolphin is not racist, that he didn't have bad intent and that he shouldn't have been suspended while also believing Dolphin could have used a better noun to describe a black player and also use this as a learning opportunity/catalyst for some dialogue on the matter.

Kudos to you. I can guarantee most people of color (especially in Iowa) have had very similar experiences to this Joe you speak of.
 
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Scott Leclair

Well-Known Member
it took 3 days before any sports reporter jumped all over this story. It took Gary Barta suspending Dolph, some reporters originally said Barta was to hard on Dolph for his “1st offense, for all reporters to start talking about this. The Maryland player Hasn’t said anything. IA Barnstormer HC Dixie said what Dolph said was a compliment to the young player.” And didn’t take this a racism at all. (Dixie is a black man) didn’t hear any black player on either team say this was offensive. Yet all these white sports reporters are coming out and saying how offensive this comment was. Now I ask you, why do white folks think they need to speak on behalf of a black man or women? There Have been many black coaches and players saying this comment not offensive. Yet the white reporter keeps telling us it is. To many media folks are so blinded by hate and “getting the next hot story” that they don’t give a damn about the context of a word and just assume every word is damn near racist. Stop being apart of the problem...
 

hoxrock

Well-Known Member
it took 3 days before any sports reporter jumped all over this story. It took Gary Barta suspending Dolph, some reporters originally said Barta was to hard on Dolph for his “1st offense, for all reporters to start talking about this. The Maryland player Hasn’t said anything. IA Barnstormer HC Dixie said what Dolph said was a compliment to the young player.” And didn’t take this a racism at all. (Dixie is a black man) didn’t hear any black player on either team say this was offensive. Yet all these white sports reporters are coming out and saying how offensive this comment was. Now I ask you, why do white folks think they need to speak on behalf of a black man or women? There Have been many black coaches and players saying this comment not offensive. Yet the white reporter keeps telling us it is. To many media folks are so blinded by hate and “getting the next hot story” that they don’t give a damn about the context of a word and just assume every word is damn near racist. Stop being apart of the problem...

This is the true racism in my opinion. When a white person assumes that a black person is a victim and cannot speak for themselves, it assumes inferiority based on race. That is textbook racism. The only reason any white person would be saying a statement is racist when scores of black people say otherwise is because the white person has been taught that all white people are privileged and all black people are victims. That is exactly what is being taught in our schools all the way from elementary up to college. It's BS and it is total psychological abuse.
 

deanvogs

Well-Known Member
Dolph can make a comment that he meant as a compliment, and people can be offended and find it racist. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Both things can easily be true.

I like the analogy that Ross has been using on the radio. It seems that "racism" is like porn in that people think they know it when they see it/hear it. Yet nobody has the same definition really. t Things that could happen (like with Joe) that 95% of people are going to say, wow, that was racist. Then you got things that can happen that 50% of people would say that is racist. Then you got things like what dolph said that maybe 10% might say it is racist, and another 50% say well it was kind of insensitive though, so lets start talking about "unconscious bias".

People in this country are just looking to be offended anymore. I'm guilty of this at times. I come here and I'm "offended" by the stupidity that I see at time. So then I feel the need to voice my opinion on what I find stupid/offensive. Everyone does this now to some extent, and everyone has a voice with social media.
 

HawksMN

Well-Known Member
What kind of society is it like to live in with people walking on egg shells so much because they are afraid that a term they use might be different in the context it is taken. I agree we have to try to be cognizant of it and try but what kind of society do we live in with everything under a microscope being examined.

This glorious seed was sown in 2008. Now it's completely run amok.
 

JonDMiller

Publisher/Founder
"although I am fascinated by Hypocrite’s Four Temperament Theory"

Ok, first off, it's Hippocrates. 2nd: the four temperament theory is about as racist as it gets. Did Jon mean fascinated as in how ridiculous the theory is?

I have not done a deep dive on Hippocrates' thoughts, rather, the aspects of temperaments manifesting in people seems to be rather predetermined, or there are proclivities that seem to be apparent....nature plays a part, but of course, nurture also plays a part.
 

JonDMiller

Publisher/Founder
It is a great read by Jon and many can reflect on similar stories growing up, times you would take back or want to apologize. But, I have to disagree with him to an extent. Comparing Dolph's situation and use of the term King Kong is nothing similar to what that "older kid" did when saying the nasty unwarranted comments about Joe's hair and asking if he used "gorilla shampoo". Two very different intents there.

I ask, if someone is completely innocent and oblivious to what they are saying, is that unbiased racism? I believe it is not when the intent was to compliment the action/play of an individual.

What kind of society is it like to live in with people walking on egg shells so much because they are afraid that a term they use might be different in the context it is taken. I agree we have to try to be cognizant of it and try but what kind of society do we live in with everything under a microscope being examined.

I get your post...and I am still struggling on some levels. I think intent has to matter...and I think in this instance, it HAS mattered. I think that most people do not believe Dolph to be a racist. I have had conversations with several people of color on this matter, and none of them believes Dolph to be a racist. But several of them felt uncomfortable with the analogy.

I am to the point where if people are truly uncomfortable, or worse, with something that is said, the messenger can be viewed as not being racist, but the message can be viewed as having racial overtones, if you will. It's complicated...but for me personally, I am convicted that I cannot possibly speak for those who feel harmed by something...I have not been in their shoes, and I wish I would have recalled the Joe Incident last Friday before I went off the way I did, without taking the time to look at something as complicated as this, from several angles.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
I get your post...and I am still struggling on some levels. I think intent has to matter...and I think in this instance, it HAS mattered. I think that most people do not believe Dolph to be a racist. I have had conversations with several people of color on this matter, and none of them believes Dolph to be a racist. But several of them felt uncomfortable with the analogy.

I am to the point where if people are truly uncomfortable, or worse, with something that is said, the messenger can be viewed as not being racist, but the message can be viewed as having racial overtones, if you will. It's complicated...but for me personally, I am convicted that I cannot possibly speak for those who feel harmed by something...I have not been in their shoes, and I wish I would have recalled the Joe Incident last Friday before I went off the way I did, without taking the time to look at something as complicated as this, from several angles.

I dont get the chance to talk to many black people. Have you, or could you, ask if they feel uncomfortable with that reference in hindsight, or if they were as soon as they heard it /have heard it in the past? I find that part interesting because I would have never even been able to connect those dots, but now that they have been connected for me, I can kinda see it. (Although I still think it's a huge stretch, but that's just me).
 

SteveGarvey1

Well-Known Member
This glorious seed was sown in 2008. Now it's completely run amok.

I've voted GOP since 2000 but I have to admit that this kind of thinking in itself poisons our culture. Blaming the other side for 100% of the racial divide in our country just makes things much worse. Both sides are guilty of it and for willfully foregoing the use of one's critical thinking skills whenever it comes to anything racial.
 

tksirius

HN's Love Doctor
I have not done a deep dive on Hippocrates' thoughts, rather, the aspects of temperaments manifesting in people seems to be rather predetermined, or there are proclivities that seem to be apparent....nature plays a part, but of course, nurture also plays a part.
The four temperaments theory presumes that all behavioral traits are a result of a person's fluids. It has about as much basis in science as astrology. I didn't realize some people were still relying on it post-DNA discovery. The theory has been used for hundreds of years to propose that Europeans (whites) are superior to people of color/from other regions of the world.
 

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
I get your post...and I am still struggling on some levels. I think intent has to matter...and I think in this instance, it HAS mattered. I think that most people do not believe Dolph to be a racist. I have had conversations with several people of color on this matter, and none of them believes Dolph to be a racist. But several of them felt uncomfortable with the analogy.

I am to the point where if people are truly uncomfortable, or worse, with something that is said, the messenger can be viewed as not being racist, but the message can be viewed as having racial overtones, if you will. It's complicated...but for me personally, I am convicted that I cannot possibly speak for those who feel harmed by something...I have not been in their shoes, and I wish I would have recalled the Joe Incident last Friday before I went off the way I did, without taking the time to look at something as complicated as this, from several angles.

Yea, I get that. I would think it is very hard for a radio broadcaster to try to be cognizant of everything they are stating, because of the microscope they are under, and not take away from their skill or broadcast. It has to be very difficult, and a situation most commenting on this never have to go through.

I'm torn as well because I don't want to live in a society where we are under a microscope so much, but, I also want to be sensitive to individuals. When you stated that you spoke to many people of color about this an several commented they were uncomfortable with the comment, I guess that says a lot to me and opens one's eyes. Sometimes we don't realize the weight of our words we use, even when the context of what we are trying to say is innocent. I guess that is the lesson learned here.
 
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Ree4

Well-Known Member
His point is that if Joe was the stinky kid or the fat kid and was being made fun of for that it would have been just as detrimental . Kids are dicks.
Being black isn't something you can control, being fat or stinky is. I get what you're saying and what PC is saying but unless you're that kid being made fun of, how can you say that it's no better or worse than another? I'd rather be made fun of for being new (a dumb reason) than something that society at that time perceived as a detriment.
 

Ree4

Well-Known Member
The big problem is that young people are being raised and taught how to effectively live as victims. In the last 10 years especially it as become lucrative to be a victim. You have an advantage if you are black, a woman, gay, native american, trans, or whatever "oppressed minority" you want to try and fit yourself into. After you raise enough of these victims the entire population is gaslighted by the media and certain politicians to the point where many feel needlessly guilty and question everything they do and say out of fear it is offensive, and they also question everything they've been taught. It is a form of psychological abuse and it is occurring on a mass level. Dolph is a perfect example. He uses a term he intended to and has always used to praise a dominant player and now his good name is sullied and is forced to apologize not once but twice and also has to go through sensitivity training because HE is somehow the problem. He is not the problem. Our rotten culture that won't stand up to this insanity is the problem. Sorry if this is too political but it is exactly what is going on around us.
Sorry but I'd rather take my chances being a white man and not have to deal with the discrimination that any of those you listed above deal with despite their monetary benefit of being such...
 

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