McCafferys and Coaches Vs Cancer Story

[guffus]

Until recently, i thought parents today are way too paranoid and protective. They freak out because there is a 1-in-ten million chance your kid might be kidnapped or molested, or simetimes get their feelings hurt.

But the more I think about it, the era that kids grew up in the mid to late 20th century was an odd time compared to the rest of human history. 150 years ago if your dad worked in a factory or a farm, you were also expected to work, sometimes as early as 11 years old, in a factory or on the family farm. 10,000 years ago you pretty much stuck close to your tribe unless you wanted to risk being killed by another tribe or maybe a wild animal.

The idea that kids and parents actually found their neighborhoods safe from the 1950's to the 1990's may be the actual anomaly. There was a time where everybody knew their neighbors and I think that helped people try to get along and feel safe. The automobile, air conditioning, and the internet probably are big reasons for the recemt change in attitude.

Finally, while birth rates are way down, life expectancy is way up. I think that has also changed things.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Until recently, i thought parents today are way too paranoid and protective. They freak out because there is a 1-in-ten million chance your kid might be kidnapped or molested, or simetimes get their feelings hurt.

But the more I think about it, the era that kids grew up in the mid to late 20th century was an odd time compared to the rest of human history. 150 years ago if your dad worked in a factory or a farm, you were also expected to work, sometimes as early as 11 years old, in a factory or on the family farm. 10,000 years ago you pretty much stuck close to your tribe unless you wanted to risk being killed by another tribe or maybe a wild animal.

The idea that kids and parents found their neighborhoods safe from the 1950's to the 1990's may be the actual anomaly. There was a time where everybody knew their neighbors and I think that helped people try to get along. The automobile, air conditioning, and the internet probably are big reasons for the recemt change in attitude.

Finally, while birth rates are way down, life expectancy is way up. I think that has also changed things.

Did you have ChatGPT write that? It was way too inciteful, original, and well-considered to have been drafted by someone in this menagerie. I have no idea if it is valid, but it sounded good!

 

[guffus]

Did you have ChatGPT write that? It was way too inciteful, original, and well-considered to have been drafted by someone in this menagerie. I have no idea if it is valid, but it sounded good!

Well, thank you. I still have kids in grade school and middle school so I have been thinking about this stuff a lot lately. Interestingly I do not how to use ChatGPT. Is that the same as googling something? instead its a combo of my own thoughts from over the years. Some thoughts I am sure I copied without even remembering who said it first.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

As a Gen X parent I can just say I think it is pendulum swing hard the other way. Our parents didn't give a royal shit about us. We were like feral cats that came home at night to eat and sleep. It made us tougher, more fun, and with a lot better stories, but I think we when we became parents we didn't want our kids to feel like they are borders in our house. They used to have PSAs to remind our drunk ass parents that they had children for Christ's sake!!!! Now we cater, chauffer, and personal assistant our kids though life. Pendulum.

Could be, hard to say. Pendulums swing in several aspects of the road of life - politics, religion, etc.

While helicopter parents were rare back in the day, I think it's a little over-the-top to characterize those that weren't as not giving "a royal shit about" their kids I'm at the tail end of the baby-boomer gen, so have seen parents raise the current younger generation, that are now raising their own kids. Many of the now grandparents were loving, thoughtful parents. There were shitty parents back then, no doubt, but there are plenty of shitty parents now too.

My gut is that it is multi-faceted. When we were kids, there was only so much you could do at home. Not having Tik Tok, Instagram, etc., meant that we had to leave and gather to socialize. When we stayed in the house we drove our parents crazy. Now, kids sit silently, completely engrossed in their phones. That's a bit of a catch-22 for parents.

I also think parents back then understood the importance of learning from trial and error. They also for whatever reason had trust in the "process." They cared but were more aware of the big picture.

That said, some parenting strategies have thankfully become less common, such as corporal punishment and forcing kids to quit school early to help out at home. Those pendulums hopefully won't swing back.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Could be, hard to say. Pendulums swing in several aspects of the road of life - politics, religion, etc.

While helicopter parents were rare back in the day, I think it's a little over-the-top to characterize those that weren't as not giving "a royal shit about" their kids I'm at the tail end of the baby-boomer gen, so have seen parents raise the current younger generation, that are now raising their own kids. Many of the now grandparents were loving, thoughtful parents. There were shitty parents back then, no doubt, but there are plenty of shitty parents now too.

My gut is that it is multi-faceted. When we were kids, there was only so much you could do at home. Not having Tik Tok, Instagram, etc., meant that we had to leave and gather to socialize. When we stayed in the house we drove our parents crazy. Now, kids sit silently, completely engrossed in their phones. That's a bit of a catch-22 for parents.

I also think parents back then understood the importance of learning from trial and error. They also for whatever reason had trust in the "process." They cared but were more aware of the big picture.

That said, some parenting strategies have thankfully become less common, such as corporal punishment and forcing kids to quit school early to help out at home. Those pendulums hopefully won't swing back.

I was being hyperbolic. I had two great parents. But, they both worked very hard jobs. My Mom had two jobs. They loved me, but candidly, from the time I was 12 or so, they really did not know or care where I was, and I was rarely at home. After school sports, the gym, work, fishing, hunting, out with friends, drinking in a field, hanging out in the next town over or even another state. For me, it was a great way to grow up. I never counted on my parents as a young adult to support me financially or otherwise. I started working at 13 and considered myself fully independent when I left for college. My kids are getting a vastly different experience.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

I was being hyperbolic. I had two great parents. But, they both worked very hard jobs. My Mom had two jobs. They loved me, but candidly, from the time I was 12 or so, they really did not know or care where I was, and I was rarely at home. After school sports, the gym, work, fishing, hunting, out with friends, drinking in a field, hanging out in the next town over or even another state. For me, it was a great way to grow up. I never counted on my parents as a young adult to support me financially or otherwise. I started working at 13 and considered myself fully independent when I left for college. My kids are getting a vastly different experience.

Pretty much the same for me. 4 yrs of college, 4 years of med school and 6 years of underpaid residency. Not a dime from my family for any of it. Nada.

And, I figured you were being hyperbolic, but it added to a good conversation on an enigmatic societal trend.

 

[99topdawg]

The thing is that people don’t realize…getting yelled at by coaches and being able to take it helps you way beyond sports. If you can handle that kind of pressure when mommy and daddy aren’t there to protect you it’s gonna translate later in life when you get in the real world.

When parents don't want their kids held accountable, there's going to be problems and I don't back down. Luckily a lot of parents know that and just talk about me behind my back. Yeah, that hurts my feelings.

 

[99topdawg]

This happened within the past couple of days in NE Iowa. This is about as bad as it gets. Make sure you have the sound up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2072006813877227887

 

[haydensly]

This happened within the past couple of days in NE Iowa. This is about as bad as it gets. Make sure you have the sound up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2072006813877227887

You're right, that's about as bad as it gets. I think the kid deserves a multiple game suspension. I have no problem with the opposing coach yelling at the kid and chasing him off. The kid's coach was out of bounds to verbally attack that opposing coach. A missed opportunity, IMO.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

You're right, that's about as bad as it gets. I think the kid deserves a multiple game suspension. I have no problem with the opposing coach yelling at the kid and chasing him off. The kid's coach was out of bounds to verbally attack that opposing coach. A missed opportunity, IMO.

I am all for second chances, but I don't think that kid should ever play baseball again in that league.

I could not tell if the ump was a kid or adult. It really doesn't matter.

As for the opposing coach chasing off the player, I agree that its not his role to do that, but if his own coach had immediately ran in and pulled his kid to the bench it would not have been an issue. An adult needed to defend the ump right away. So, I don't blame the opposing coach for stepping in. Its a high emotion and very intense moment, so I don't fault his reaction.

The kid sucks, his coach did not react quickly enough, and I am guessing his parents gave him a snow cone after to make him feel better.....

 

[Fryowa]

When parents don't want their kids held accountable, there's going to be problems and I don't back down. Luckily a lot of parents know that and just talk about me behind my back. Yeah, that hurts my feelings.

It was always Facebook with me because they knew I didn’t have Facebook. But they were apparently too dumb to know that I had friends who would showing to me.

 

[Fryowa]

This happened within the past couple of days in NE Iowa. This is about as bad as it gets. Make sure you have the sound up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2072006813877227887

Lolzies.

Now that my kid is graduated and on to the next phase of his life I’m fine just being burned out for a while. Been involved at some level with the sport from my kindergarten year on and I’ll always love the game to death, but youth/HS baseball has become everything I didn’t like about it when I was younger. I’m fine going to a bunch of indy league, minor league, and a few MLB games a year and calling it good. Oh and the Big Ten Tournament because it’s cheap and close.

I’m an old school Tony Gwynn, Pete Rose, Ozzy Smith, Dale Murphy type of guy. I have no love for “launch angle,” “exit velocity,” pitch framing, pitch counts, and .205 batting averages being good. Several hundred Ks per season isn’t good for baseball no matter how many home runs you hit.

I also think the pitch clock and disengagement rules were the best things that have happened to baseball in my lifetime.

So I guess…get the hell off my lawn and take the modern 18 and under game with you.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Altho my oldest son participated in numerous sports, the only time he got yelled at by a coach was when the coach discovered he'd taken a black magic marker and drawn a giant penis on the ceiling of the school van. The interior was filled with graffiti, but that was a bit over the line. If I remember correctly, I think the punishment by the A.D. was a 1-game suspension. Privately, I thought it was kind of funny, but geez, you do something stupid, you take the consequence.

That's one of those situations where ya gotta back the punishment and person laying out the punishment, but then silently admit with a slight grin, "Damn, kind of proud of the kid". Also when bragging to your buddies about your kid's antics.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

1000% it's the parents.

I'm perplexed regarding how it all got started. Social media? I don't know, but at some point "proper parenting" shifted from teaching responsibility and accountability to "protect-your-child's-feelings-at-all cost-while-fostering-as-much-parental-dependence-as-possible."

All of this has been driven and exacerbated by what I view as a kind of a societal virtue signaling, where parents, via guilt (otherwise known as moral cowardice...) and fear of ridicule, feel pressured to "one-up" each other.

One simple microcosm that makes me chuckle and roll my eyes is when I see parents drive their kids closer and closer and closer to school bus stops. Ten years ago, you'd see that if the stop was more than 2-3 blocks away. Now, you see it if the stop is more than 50 yards away. I've observed parents drive their kids down the driveway and wait with them even when the bus was stopping literally at the driveway. And, I'm not talking 5/6-year olds. I'm talking 9, 10, 11-year-olds. SMH

Has anyone else noticed this? I mean, we all want our kids to be safe, but c'mon, there's a point where it gets ridiculous. When I was a kid, the bus stop was about a 1/4 mile away and probably around 10 of us all had to walk there daily, rain, snow, it didn't matter. Honestly, I don't recall a single time where a parent drove their kid to the stop and sat there 10 yards away until the bus arrived.

On a side note, there's a Jennifer Lawrence movie called, "No Hard Feelings," that parodies this issue. It's funny but also kind of depressing because it is the modern reality unfortunately.

Go back in history. Much of it started right around the time we couldn't spank the children anymore. Once the kid's knew they couldn't get physical punishment and had the power, they ran with it. NOW, I'm not saying it was alright to hit a kid or punch, etc., but even the threat of it helped to control them.

I clearly remember growing up in ES school in the 1970's with the threat of the principal being able to get the board off the wall and spank a kid. I don't recall me or any kid's ever getting that punishment but the threat was there for some reason and it creeped into your head when making a decision about doing something. That went away in the later 80's and 90's and it's been downhill from there.

Kid's are now not scared of their parent's because they know the parent can't do anything physically. What's even worse, they have lost their conscious where it doesn't really matter to them.

Oh, and the school bus thing. I certainly have noticed this. People in a cul-de-sac waiting at the end to pick the kids up from the bus. Saw that and I'm like WTF!

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Lolzies.

Now that my kid is graduated and on to the next phase of his life I’m fine just being burned out for a while. Been involved at some level with the sport from my kindergarten year on and I’ll always love the game to death, but youth/HS baseball has become everything I didn’t like about it when I was younger. I’m fine going to a bunch of indy league, minor league, and a few MLB games a year and calling it good. Oh and the Big Ten Tournament because it’s cheap and close.

I’m an old school Tony Gwynn, Pete Rose, Ozzy Smith, Dale Murphy type of guy. I have no love for “launch angle,” “exit velocity,” pitch framing, pitch counts, and .205 batting averages being good. Several hundred Ks per season isn’t good for baseball no matter how many home runs you hit.

I also think the pitch clock and disengagement rules were the best things that have happened to baseball in my lifetime.

So I guess…get the hell off my lawn and take the modern 18 and under game with you.

I don't miss youth sports one bit.

 

[trj]

Lolzies.

Now that my kid is graduated and on to the next phase of his life I’m fine just being burned out for a while. Been involved at some level with the sport from my kindergarten year on and I’ll always love the game to death, but youth/HS baseball has become everything I didn’t like about it when I was younger. I’m fine going to a bunch of indy league, minor league, and a few MLB games a year and calling it good. Oh and the Big Ten Tournament because it’s cheap and close.

I’m an old school Tony Gwynn, Pete Rose, Ozzy Smith, Dale Murphy type of guy. I have no love for “launch angle,” “exit velocity,” pitch framing, pitch counts, and .205 batting averages being good. Several hundred Ks per season isn’t good for baseball no matter how many home runs you hit.

I also think the pitch clock and disengagement rules were the best things that have happened to baseball in my lifetime.

So I guess…get the hell off my lawn and take the modern 18 and under game with you.

All these years on this message board and I would have sworn you would be an analytics and/or WAR guy. Think you know people on this board, and you find out, you really don’t.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I don't miss youth sports one bit.

Me either... I helped coach T-ball for a couple yrs and that was fun and all but there's only so much of that I could even take. No way would I have gotten into umping/reffing or coaching anything above that. Not a chance

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Go back in history. Much of it started right around the time we couldn't spank the children anymore. Once the kid's knew they couldn't get physical punishment and had the power, they ran with it. NOW, I'm not saying it was alright to hit a kid or punch, etc., but even the threat of it helped to control them.

I clearly remember growing up in ES school in the 1970's with the threat of the principal being able to get the board off the wall and spank a kid. I don't recall me or any kid's ever getting that punishment but the threat was there for some reason and it creeped into your head when making a decision about doing something. That went away in the later 80's and 90's and it's been downhill from there.

Kid's are now not scared of their parent's because they know the parent can't do anything physically. What's even worse, they have lost their conscious where it doesn't really matter to them.

Oh, and the school bus thing. I certainly have noticed this. People in a cul-de-sac waiting at the end to pick the kids up from the bus. Saw that and I'm like WTF!

Yeah I had a healthy fear of my old man growing up. So by the time I was 15/16 I had a half a clue as to how to conduct myself and stay on his good side. I knew better then to act up and push his buttons by that point and just how to conduct myself with others. That went for teachers/friends you name it.

Now social media raises kids as much as anything.

 

[99topdawg]

Lolzies.

Now that my kid is graduated and on to the next phase of his life I’m fine just being burned out for a while. Been involved at some level with the sport from my kindergarten year on and I’ll always love the game to death, but youth/HS baseball has become everything I didn’t like about it when I was younger. I’m fine going to a bunch of indy league, minor league, and a few MLB games a year and calling it good. Oh and the Big Ten Tournament because it’s cheap and close.

I’m an old school Tony Gwynn, Pete Rose, Ozzy Smith, Dale Murphy type of guy. I have no love for “launch angle,” “exit velocity,” pitch framing, pitch counts, and .205 batting averages being good. Several hundred Ks per season isn’t good for baseball no matter how many home runs you hit.

I also think the pitch clock and disengagement rules were the best things that have happened to baseball in my lifetime.

So I guess…get the hell off my lawn and take the modern 18 and under game with you.

I don't think I could agree more with you.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Go back in history. Much of it started right around the time we couldn't spank the children anymore. Once the kid's knew they couldn't get physical punishment and had the power, they ran with it. NOW, I'm not saying it was alright to hit a kid or punch, etc., but even the threat of it helped to control them.

I clearly remember growing up in ES school in the 1970's with the threat of the principal being able to get the board off the wall and spank a kid. I don't recall me or any kid's ever getting that punishment but the threat was there for some reason and it creeped into your head when making a decision about doing something. That went away in the later 80's and 90's and it's been downhill from there.

Kid's are now not scared of their parent's because they know the parent can't do anything physically. What's even worse, they have lost their conscious where it doesn't really matter to them.

Oh, and the school bus thing. I certainly have noticed this. People in a cul-de-sac waiting at the end to pick the kids up from the bus. Saw that and I'm like WTF!

I've gone back and forth on this, and put a lot of thought into it.

After several years, I've concluded a few things:

1. Threat of physical consequences works, yes, but what are we teaching our children with that approach? I'd much prefer that they learn that actions have consequences, but not that physically hurting someone is the "correct" way to do it. There are many other alternatives which can be tailored to the age and maturity of the child.

2. Corporal punishment is almost always accompanied by anger, sometimes extreme. Being physically punished by an angry parent could have long-term detrimental psychological effects on both child and parent. Some kids probably have the make-up to roll with it, but many kids do not. It can't be healthy to try to control yourself (assuming you can) out of fear of someone you should love and trust.

3. The importance of the parent-child relationship is highly undervalued. Many of the kids I knew that were regularly spanked never developed close trusting and loving relationships with their parent(s), including me. Some still do, no doubt, but many never do. Those that don't often have major issues with distrust, lack of empathy, very dysfunctional relationships and, often, substance abuse.

My kids are adults now, but one of them was EXTREMELY difficult and frustrating, literally from infancy onward. Retrospectively, I wish I would have handled things better. Out of sheer exasperation, I regularly got angry, yelled, intimidated, and, yes, even tried spanking for awhile.

As parents, we later learned that all of the issues were related to a combination of autism spectrum disorder, ADHD and other mental health diagnoses. Those issues remain challenges for said child going into adulthood, but it is readily apparent that the parent-child relationship has been permanently damaged. There is an incredible amount of guilt there.

When children are young, it's almost impossible to differentiate bad behaviors that occur as the result of normal lack of awareness/impulse control, versus those that occur due to underlying disorders. By the time you figure it out, it's conceivable that years of irreparable damage has already been done (to the both of you). You can give yourself some grace knowing that you had no way of knowing, but that grace only goes so far.

If I could go back and do it all over again, I absolutely would eliminate physical threat/intimidation as a control mechanism, and would be much more patient, calm and loving, and emphasize encouraging the positives as opposed to punishing the negatives. Yes, a lot of it is much easier said than done, especially in the heat of the moment, and parenting is far from an exact science, but he fact that it is impossible to have a "re-do" haunts me daily.