SCHawkeye2
Well-Known Member
Contrary to many pre-season predictions on here, there are no gimme’s on our schedule.
Matt Campbell and PSU
- Thread starter hawkinstl
- Start date
I was thinking the same thing about Wisconsin. Some were saying that they are "back". That is premature.
Fryowa
Administrator
It’s just that I don’t think Penn State deserves any credit or respect as a football team anymore. They did what nebraska and Wisconsin did in firing Pelini and Chryst. And now PSU is nebraska. I don’t feel bad about it at all but they destroyed their program. It’s isu Lite now, and I really think the new version of isu would beat them 7 games out of 10.Okay, then. The game in Evanston looks a lot more difficult than it did in July. Is that a better way to put it, dude?
Michigan is probably on its way to doing the same thing if Whittingham can’t figure it out.
It’s why all the Ferentz haters are idiots. They don’t realize the rarity of the stability and success this program has had. The Ferentz haters like @BigD think that since he hasn’t won the conference or made the playiffs that he’s ultimately a failure. They want him gone and are too stupid to see what’s happened to nebraska, Wisconsin, and now Penn State.
hawkinn3
Well-Known Member
I don’t believe any head coach could have done a better job at Iowa than Kirk. 90% of them would have failed at rebuilding and the other 10% would have left after 04.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Scanning a few of the PSU sites, the level of panic varies quite a bit.
Many are saying MC is a good coach, it's a talent problem and will get better.
Some are saying that, but then adding that recruiting is not going well so it may not get better.
Others are saying both the OC and DC are in over their heads. (this ain't the "big" 12)
A few have actually suggested Campbell should be one and done, which isn't happening. No AD is going to pull the plug that fast, essentially putting himself on the hotseat too.
I think they'll improve, but it's going to be Nebraska-like. The new normal won't be 10 win seasons (which Franklin had 3 of his last 4 years).
Many are saying MC is a good coach, it's a talent problem and will get better.
Some are saying that, but then adding that recruiting is not going well so it may not get better.
Others are saying both the OC and DC are in over their heads. (this ain't the "big" 12)
A few have actually suggested Campbell should be one and done, which isn't happening. No AD is going to pull the plug that fast, essentially putting himself on the hotseat too.
I think they'll improve, but it's going to be Nebraska-like. The new normal won't be 10 win seasons (which Franklin had 3 of his last 4 years).
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
I heard a commentator on CBS say that this year's version of ISU would beat last year's version of ISU and this year's version of PSU would get creamed by last year's version of PSU.
In essence, PSU hired a coach who was middling due to the economic changes that ISU could not keep up with, and then he brought his whole middling team to replace the departing roster made up of a lot of blue chip.
Right now it looks like ISU and Va Tech have upgraded coaches and PSU has gone the other way.
In essence, PSU hired a coach who was middling due to the economic changes that ISU could not keep up with, and then he brought his whole middling team to replace the departing roster made up of a lot of blue chip.
Right now it looks like ISU and Va Tech have upgraded coaches and PSU has gone the other way.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I'm not sold that Whittingham is really that great as advertised. I wonder if is a situation like Butler Basketball where the coaches within the program are much better than the head coach, like when Iowa hired Lickliter. Many thought that Stevens was the one who really made the program successful.
Utah had the assistant there for many years and the main reason Whittingham was let go so that guy could get the keys to the car. Was that assistant coach the one who really made Utah competitive? He prob got sick of waiting and told Utah you either hire me or I'm looking elsewhere since he was getting older and his window is getting shorter.
I keep coming back to this post.
And I keep going back to the well of....
"Since ~2000, name the teams you would rather be a fan of:
Oklahoma....ok, maybe
Alabama.....of course
Miami...not a chance in hell
OSU...of course
LSU...sure, they have had good runs and a lot of meh, but enough runs....of course
USC...vacated
Texas.....probably, even though Texas fans are annoying
Florida....we should have beat them in the bowl game the year before/after they won it...meh
Auburn....I mean, yah, they won it once and their games seem like a lot of fun
FSU....nah....
Clemson....same as Auburn, seems fun
Indiana....up until last year? not a chance
Michigan*....gets an asterisk because they cheated.
So that basically leaves 8 total teams who have delivered the ULTIMATE satisfaction AND delivered regular satisfaction year-in-year-out. Even in the worst of Deacon Hill times, Iowa was almost always "looming" with some outside chance (thanks to the East/West/Legends/Leaders) to go to the conference championship 70+% of the time up until the last week or 2 or 3.
MAYBE you consider Wisconsin, because outside of Michigan and OSU, they are the only other B10 team with a winning record against Ferentz. Michigan is only 9-8 against Ferentz, 2 of them being in Indy.
I just think of the misery of so many teams like Purdue, Illinois and beyond. That MAYBE....MAYBE....get a taste of it every 10 years.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
Obviously they look terrible, but Penn State retained 52 players from last year. Franklin recruited at a high level, too.
And everyone can hate on Campbell, but there is little doubt he is the best coach in Iowa State history. That is a really, really tough place to win. He only brought 24 guys from Iowa State, and almost all were pretty good football players.
I won't argue that they look like crap, but there isn't any reason why you'd think 52 players recruited by Franklin, plus 24 of the best Iowa State players, plus a $30 million payroll should get steamrolled by Northwestern. Anyone acting anything but surprised that Northwestern would run for 400+ yards on them while only giving up 40 on the ground is being somewhat disingenuous.
And everyone can hate on Campbell, but there is little doubt he is the best coach in Iowa State history. That is a really, really tough place to win. He only brought 24 guys from Iowa State, and almost all were pretty good football players.
I won't argue that they look like crap, but there isn't any reason why you'd think 52 players recruited by Franklin, plus 24 of the best Iowa State players, plus a $30 million payroll should get steamrolled by Northwestern. Anyone acting anything but surprised that Northwestern would run for 400+ yards on them while only giving up 40 on the ground is being somewhat disingenuous.
I mean, you have to give someone some grace. Good thing we gave Kirk a few years. Yes, different situation when he came in. But it's still an entire new organizational infrastructure you gotta learn. I mean, he's got to get used to Wawa over Casey's. And, I do agree that Franklin is a "process guy".
Also, can we REALLY evaluate in this era?
Who had Indiana coming off a solid year, a quite good year, then winning a national title, and looking to have another quite good year? And Michigan with the highest paid and most anticipated QB losing to Iowa, Minnesota, and Western Michigan.
Saw a stat that this was the first year ever in Big 10 History (or at least since PSU came aboard) that Michigan, Michigan St, and Penn State had 2 losses in the 2nd week of conference play.
I think NIL can be all about building a team around your process and you never have to adapt your process. ISU built a pretty good team with some Wash State players and then picked the best they could at each position that fit what they were trying to do. Virtually zero leftovers that you don't wanna cut, so you keep them around hoping they can learn your system. ISU went out and got guys that fit the system, not necessarily "the best" guys they could. They had to do it that way. PSU had a fair number of leftovers. Probably better served dumping them (like Deion did) in favor of all guys who fit your system, even if they're "not as good".
The Big 10 is a madhouse this year. I think it does show how important coaches who have systems (a la Kirk) can be. At least over coaches who just have gobs of money to throw at really good players they can adapt their system to. The best coaches are gonna be able to mix that together.
Yeah, but how many of those 52 player recruited by Franklin, started for Penn St. last season? Zero, I believe. So, they are basically the best 24 players from Iowa St., plus a few Penn St. backups and a few transfers. I felt all along their early season success was fool's gold -- I told family members there's no way ISU players are that much better than BTen teams -- and it turns out, they're not.
That said, NW hiring Chip Kelly was a genius move. In recent years, it was always their offense holding them back. Now, they're a legit team in 2026, new stadium or not.
As is Wisconsin. Everybody figuring them to be the same team they saw at the start of last season wasn't paying attention...they beat two Top 25 teams the last month of the 2025 season. Two years ago they started 5 Fr OLinemen and had an unbelievable run of QB injuries...now those linemen are veterans, and their LBs are both potentially All BTen.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
Firing Franklin was PSU pulling a Nebraska firing Frank Solich and Bo Pelini. Fired guys for only winning 10 games a season and choking in the big games. They needed to be replaced "to get to the next level." Its gonna work out the same way. Look OSU, Indiana, and Oregon are not going anywhere. The conference should be afraid of what they are showing at UCLA. USC and Michigan will keep throwing money at coaches until they get a good one. Absent a flukey year, I think Penn State's ceiling is third place in the conference and bubble for the playoffs. Campbell will be lucky if he makes a bowl this year. What if he goes 7-5 next year? How much patience can you have? And, imagine if Va Tech makes the playoffs?
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
ISU has not upgraded its coach. Campbell had the best record of any ISU coach in the last 100 years.
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NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
Time will tell. He took over a program with the fewest returning starters in the country and a low player budget and he's put a respectable product on the field. They gave Iowa all it could handle in Kinnick and there only other loss was to a ranked Utah team.
Campbell has twice the budget and a far greater recruiting base and is losing to Wisconsin at home and getting boat raced by the smart kids at NW.
Its a small sample size, but I was hoping ISU would make a bad hire and I don't think that they did. We will see how long a leash Campbell gets at PSU.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Small sample size is an understatement.
Secondly, that's not an apples-to-apples comparison. The comparison will be how Rogers does at ISU vs how Campbell did at ISU, not how he's doing at Penn St. Penn St has greater resources but it's also a much tougher job in a stronger conference than ISU.
As for the "smart kids" at NW. They're going to win a lot of games this year. They beat the #1 ranked FCS team, completely embarrassed Deion's Buffs and their only loss is by 6 @ #7 Indiana.
For the record I think PSU made a mistake by firing Franklin too and ISU lost out with Campbell's (inevitable) departure. We'll see about Rogers. Strikes me as a bit of a douchebag (which of course, makes him a perfect fit for ISU)
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Iowa State went 5-4 in the Big 12 last year. They weren’t that good there either.
I think it shows how important fit is too. I think Campbell is a terrible fit there.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
You say a few Penn State back-ups, but it is 52 players from recruiting classes typically ranked in the top 10 or top 15.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Mark your calendar, BryceC. We completely agree.
Campbell's move to PSU was a net negative for all parties involved. Though, he is in one of those wonderful professions where you can fail miserably, get fired in a few years and be financially set for life. So there is that. One thing that most don't mention, this can't be easy on his family. They had it made in Ames.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
Mostly fair. The only exception I would take is that comparing what Campbell did at ISU to what Rogers will do may not be totally fair given NIL. Campbell has a 56% winning percentage at ISU, which is respectable for a dump like that. But, a lot of that success occurred before the financial changes of NIL hit. Admittedly, his best year was '24, but he had steady success from 2017-21 during "the good old days" when ISU was under the same basic financial model as everyone else. ISU does not have the money to keep up with the Jones in the Big 12. So, if Rogers has similar success to Campbell when he clearly is at a recruiting/player disadvantage, that is something I would take into account when comparing the two. Again, time will tell.
And if Campbell pulls a Frost and gets fired after three seasons, that tarnishes his Wikepedia page for sure.
