Joe Wieskamp No. 25 in ESPN's New Top 60 for '18

[NikeHawk21]

I just don't see how anyone can't understand that Boho was not brought here to start and be that star player alongside Cook that Moore or Simpson would have been from day one.

Refer to my post about the top 50-100 PG recruits. I don't disagree that Jordan was a fallback, actually I wasn't very happy when we signed him. I disagree with the premise that those other guys were sure things / instant stars, which you guys keep telling yourself.

 

[AdamHawk]

It's like you guys are picking a fight for the sake of just picking a fight. 5656 hasn't made horrible comments on here or even come off like a POS ISU troll.

The sell to get a major PG recruit was:
--open position that you can have the keys to drive for 4 years or less depending on if you're NBA ready
--if you like to get out there and run, the system is perfect for just that
--if you want a program that is in the B1G and has amazing facilities, Iowa is right up there
--if you want to play in a program that is going to be consistently good for years to come (and maybe even great) then pick Iowa
--want to play with a Top 50 Big? Oh yeah, you can with Tyler Cook.

Fran missed on getting his true PG badly. And to ignore this and think Boho is going to come in here and be what Charlie Moore, Xaiver Simpson etc. will most likely be for their future schools is short sighted. Those players are a different caliber from Boho.

Reasons why Boho isn't a 1PG for Iowa or any other B1G school?
--athleticism
--strength
--agility
--SIZE

His best attributes?
--Doesn't turn it over a ton
--Amazing shooter

There's no reason to oversell Boho unless you want to ride the Fran-wagon. Boho is what he is. Iowa missed out on all of their other options and he was a sure fire fall back. Sherm tweeted out some photos of practice this week and Boho literally looks like a 8th grader compared to the rest of the players featured in the photo.

But if you are trying to tell yourself he is what Iowa needed at the PG position in this class, you're nothing but a Grade-A homer.

This whole post is way off. There are 12 pages of posts (I'm guessing you didn't take the time to read) and nobody said he was better than Moore or Simpson. What your boy 5656 did say though is that Iowa should be able to pull in any of those blue chips out of their home state or from a blue blood school just because we can sell playing time and an uptempo game. That has never been the case at Iowa. Fran has made some great headway in recruiting since he got to Iowa but to expect him to pull in upper echelon recruits is not realistic. Hell Tom Izzo, Jay Wright and Bill Self missed on these kids but Fran is a failure because he can't land them? That's ridiculous.

 

[Hawk5656]

This whole post is way off. There are 12 pages of posts (I'm guessing you didn't take the time to read) and nobody said he was better than Moore or Simpson. What your boy 5656 did say though is that Iowa should be able to pull in any of those blue chips out of their home state or from a blue blood school just because we can sell playing time and an uptempo game. That has never been the case at Iowa. Fran has made some great headway in recruiting since he got to Iowa but to expect him to pull in upper echelon recruits is not realistic. Hell Tom Izzo, Jay Wright and Bill Self missed on these kids but Fran is a failure because he can't land them? That's ridiculous.

Izzo landed top 50 PG recruit in Cassius Winston. Self has two really good PG's on his roster and I'm not sure he went after any of the guys we did. It wasn't a position of priority for sure. Same situation with Jay Wright, they really didn't even recruit PG's in this class with Brunson returning

 

[PCHawk]

I'm just an Iowa State troll though

I never called you that. I just assume you're a hawk fan who always sees the negative side.

 

[AdamHawk]

Izzo landed top 50 PG recruit in Cassius Winston. Self has two really good PG's on his roster and I'm not sure he went after any of the guys we did. It wasn't a position of priority for sure. Same situation with Jay Wright, they really didn't even recruit PG's in this class with Brunson returning

All 3 of them offered Pritchard. Do you really think Fran should have beaten all of those guys out (including Altman in his home state) just because he can sell playing time? As I already stated earlier, sometimes kids don't look at playing time as the end all be all when it comes to choosing a college.

Obviously Winston is a big recruit for Izzo but convincing a kid to go 90 miles to school is probably a little bit easier than convincing a kid to travel 2,000 miles.

 

[Hawk5656]

All 3 of them offered Pritchard. Do you really think Fran should have beaten all of those guys out (including Altman in his home state) just because he can sell playing time? As I already stated earlier, sometimes kids don't look at playing time as the end all be all when it comes to choosing a college.

Obviously Winston is a big recruit for Izzo but convincing a kid to go 90 miles to school is probably a little bit easier than convincing a kid to travel 2,000 miles.

Kansas offered three PG's total, Pritchard and two top 10 players. Villanova offered two PG's counting Pritchard and both have an uphill battle with starting PG's returning. Completely different scenario.

I think Fran needed a PG better than Bohannon and that's all I'm saying, you can disagree but I'm tired of talking about

 

[AdamHawk]

Kansas offered three PG's total, Pritchard and two top 10 players. Villanova offered two PG's counting Pritchard and both have an uphill battle with starting PG's returning. Completely different scenario.

I think Fran needed a PG better than Bohannon and that's all I'm saying, you can disagree but I'm tired of talking about

So you are saying that Fran failed because he wasn't able to beat these guys out for Pritchard. Got it.

Listen, I think Iowa needed a better player than Seth Gourney a few years back but sometimes it's just not in the cards. I'd love for Iowa to be able to out recruit MSU, Nova or Kansas and who knows, maybe it will happen someday. Iowa is currently not on their level and won't be for some time. They have made vast improvements over the last few years but to say you are disappointed in Fran's efforts is simply naive.

 

[Hawk5656]

So you are saying that Fran failed because he wasn't able to beat these guys out for Pritchard. Got it.

Listen, I think Iowa needed a better player than Seth Gourney a few years back but sometimes it's just not in the cards. I'd love for Iowa to be able to out recruit MSU, Nova or Kansas and who knows, maybe it will happen someday. Iowa is currently not on their level and won't be for some time. They have made vast improvements over the last few years but to say you are disappointed in Fran's efforts is simply naive.

I think Fran swung and missed on PG recruiting this year because he casted a wide net and missed on all of them. Of all the players he went after only one went to a blue blood and it was Indiana. He wasn't getting beat out by Izzo and Self on the recruiting trail. A lot of people were disappointed when we signed Bohannon and nothing has changed besides people talking themselves into something he's not. Improving your stats by 7ppg going from a junior to a senior in Iowa High School basketball doesn't really change what type of recruit you are. If you look at this objectively you'd agree it is disappointing too but I'm sure you won't and that's fine. We don't all have to agree, that's the beauty of a message board.

 

[Tierney]

The players develop differently from year to year. I think Bohannon is bringing a lot of attributes that will help the team a great deal. I'll agree to disagree with you. Maybe I'll change my mind after watching him play for a year, but there is nothing I've seen to think he won't make the best of his opportunities. Most of the other point guards Iowa was recruiting will never be heard from again. I'm looking forward to seeing both Williams and Bohannon play. Guys like Bohannon are going to have high basketball IQs.

 

[PCHawk]

I think Fran swung and missed on PG recruiting this year because he casted a wide net and missed on all of them. Of all the players he went after only one went to a blue blood and it was Indiana. He wasn't getting beat out by Izzo and Self on the recruiting trail. A lot of people were disappointed when we signed Bohannon and nothing has changed besides people talking themselves into something he's not. Improving your stats by 7ppg going from a junior to a senior in Iowa High School basketball doesn't really change what type of recruit you are. If you look at this objectively you'd agree it is disappointing too but I'm sure you won't and that's fine. We don't all have to agree, that's the beauty of a message board.

Do you realize how hard it is to score that many points per game as a slow unathletic shooter? Guys like Woody could maybe score a lot of points because he has something no opponents do. Every big high school in Iowa has a 6' kid who can play good defense.

 

[Hawk5656]

Do you realize how hard it is to score that many points per game as a slow unathletic shooter? Guys like Woody could maybe score a lot of points because he has something no opponents do. Every big high school in Iowa has a 6' kid who can play good defense.

Daniel Tillo put up 24.5 ppg, was Iowa's Mr. Basketball and had offers from Northern Colorado, San Jose State and South Dakota. High school basketball stats really mean very little in terms of what you project at at the next level, see Tyler Cook and Isaiah Moss for examples. Even Ellingson averaged 25 ppg in High School and most of the fan base thinks he's a slow unathletic shooter.

 

[AdamHawk]

I think Fran swung and missed on PG recruiting this year because he casted a wide net and missed on all of them. Of all the players he went after only one went to a blue blood and it was Indiana. He wasn't getting beat out by Izzo and Self on the recruiting trail. A lot of people were disappointed when we signed Bohannon and nothing has changed besides people talking themselves into something he's not. Improving your stats by 7ppg going from a junior to a senior in Iowa High School basketball doesn't really change what type of recruit you are. If you look at this objectively you'd agree it is disappointing too but I'm sure you won't and that's fine. We don't all have to agree, that's the beauty of a message board.

You're right, he didn't get beat by them on the recruiting trail but they were beat along with Fran so it's not to say that Fran should have easily been able to pull in some of these recruits. I disagree that you are the only objective one on here because you are calling Bohannon a disappointment. I think you are disproportionately negative about Iowa for some reason. The obvious reason is because you are an ISU troll but maybe it's something else. It'd be great if you could clear the waters for us.

 

[PCHawk]

Daniel Tillo put up 24.5 ppg, was Iowa's Mr. Basketball and had offers from Northern Colorado, San Jose State and South Dakota. High school basketball stats really mean very little in terms of what you project at at the next level, see Tyler Cook and Isaiah Moss for examples. Even Ellingson averaged 25 ppg in High School and most of the fan base thinks he's a slow unathletic shooter.

So where did Tillo go, what year is he, and how is he doing? I'm too lazy to google.

 

[PCHawk]

So I decided to google and I see he decided to play baseball. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing him up. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that good players can fall through the cracks and not get many offers. We already know Bohannon didn't get many offers. My point is he might be good anyway.

 

[Hawk5656]

So I decided to google and I see he decided to play baseball. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing him up. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that good players can fall through the cracks and not get many offers. We already know Bohannon didn't get many offers. My point is he might be good anyway.

I'm bringing him up to show you High School stats don't really mean anything. Tillo was not a major conference caliber player regardless what he did in High School.

 

[stomper90]

Kansas offered three PG's total, Pritchard and two top 10 players. Villanova offered two PG's counting Pritchard and both have an uphill battle with starting PG's returning. Completely different scenario.

I think Fran needed a PG better than Bohannon and that's all I'm saying, you can disagree but I'm tired of talking about

And @AdamHawk can attack anyone on here, claiming that anyone who disagrees with him is a troll, or claiming they don't know what they are talking about. Or in my case, flaming me and saying I haven't read 12 pages of blah blah blah and 10 different points which have continually changed the main point about Boho earlier in the thread.

When I logged in and read this thread today, that was the key point that stuck with me and the reason why I hopped on here and jumped in. The point of this thread that resonated as one of the key messages was that Fran needed another PG better than Boho. And then all of these Boho apologists came on here saying he'll be good to great. That's not the type of player you're getting. You're getting an guard who lacks athletism, size and strength, but who can shoot the heck out of the ball. Hopefully for everyone's sake it's a mixture of Ogs + Ellingson who can shoot. I'd even take a Brody Boyd out of him. But I am expecting very little and will be happy if by his junior year he is a meaningful contributor. That would show everyone how great of a talent developer Fran is and I sure hope he is.

 

[stomper90]

So you are saying that Fran failed because he wasn't able to beat these guys out for Pritchard. Got it.

Listen, I think Iowa needed a better player than Seth Gourney a few years back but sometimes it's just not in the cards. I'd love for Iowa to be able to out recruit MSU, Nova or Kansas and who knows, maybe it will happen someday. Iowa is currently not on their level and won't be for some time. They have made vast improvements over the last few years but to say you are disappointed in Fran's efforts is simply naive.

Correct--they have definitely made vast improvements -- nobody can disagree with that. But I disagree that the expectation should be that it "won't be for some time" -- yes, it's easier to recruit at a perennial winner or schools in warm weather (FL, USC, UCLA etc.) however, Iowa is a top 20 school in hoops attendance, have poured money into the facilities, have consistency at the coaching position, and have a pipeline of really good kids coming in-- Cook, Fran's kids, JW, and maybe even some of their friends.

Compare it to what Gregg Marshall has done with the Shockers. He is bringing in a couple of Top 100 kids to Wichita State every year or every other year and is competing at high levels. He's been in Wichita for 9 years vs. 6 for Fran in Iowa. In 3 years, would it be safe to say if Iowa is not consistently battling for high recruits and winning 1-2 a year while making consistent appearances in Sweet 16s that you can say this staff might want to rethink their approach / coaching staff to get stronger at recruiting?

I'm stoked he's locking down the state and Prohm isn't getting the kids that Iowa wants. But to hit that next level of elite, he's going to have to start winning some border wars and bringing in some recruits out of market. You've seen football have to do that. In the early 2000s they were bringing in kids from FLA and now they have started to go after Texas. At some point you have to bring in other kids who want to be apart of what you're building. Maybe St. Louis / Chicago could be that secondary market for the basketball program. Trying to fight for relevance out east is going to be continually difficult.

It's the constant battle of striving for excellence and I am hopeful that this staff can get there. But you've seen a lot of coaching staffs do it in the same amount of time in lesser markets and I think a portion of the fan base would like to see that happen here rather than "just hoping to make it to the tourny."

IMO The sweet spot for targets are kids ranked somewhere between 50 and 150 because those are the kids most likely not to be 1 and done and will stick around for 3 years. Iowa will never be in a position where they can bring in blue chip kid after blue chip kid and then restock after they turn pro early. It's just not that type of program.

 

[stomper90]

I think Fran swung and missed on PG recruiting this year because he casted a wide net and missed on all of them. Of all the players he went after only one went to a blue blood and it was Indiana. He wasn't getting beat out by Izzo and Self on the recruiting trail. A lot of people were disappointed when we signed Bohannon and nothing has changed besides people talking themselves into something he's not. Improving your stats by 7ppg going from a junior to a senior in Iowa High School basketball doesn't really change what type of recruit you are. If you look at this objectively you'd agree it is disappointing too but I'm sure you won't and that's fine. We don't all have to agree, that's the beauty of a message board.

The net was definitely cast wide. To your point though, Simpson to Michigan is kinda blue blood, no?

And anyone who was dissapointed in Boho should have the same feeling of dissapointment. You have not seen him in a uniform and all of his liablities are still the same ones as when he committed. And people who felt like he was underated and will turn out to be a contributor should feel the same way unless they've watched footage, listened to the Hawkeye Report podcast where they interviewed Barnstormers and felt swayed.

I think it's safe to assume that everyone in this thread will be rooting him on regardless and will give him a fair shake.

We're definitely going to see him for at least 10 minutes a game this year and he is going to play a role for better or for worse.

 

[Hawk5656]

The net was definitely cast wide. To your point though, Simpson to Michigan is kinda blue blood, no?

And anyone who was dissapointed in Boho should have the same feeling of dissapointment. You have not seen him in a uniform and all of his liablities are still the same ones as when he committed. And people who felt like he was underated and will turn out to be a contributor should feel the same way unless they've watched footage, listened to the Hawkeye Report podcast where they interviewed Barnstormers and felt swayed.

I think it's safe to assume that everyone in this thread will be rooting him on regardless and will give him a fair shake.

We're definitely going to see him for at least 10 minutes a game this year and he is going to play a role for better or for worse.

Michigan is a good basketball program but they're not a blue blood. I agree with everything else though, the people that think he's a different player since committing have just talked themselves into that idea

 

[stomper90]

Michigan is a good basketball program but they're not a blue blood. I agree with everything else though, the people that think he's a different player since committing have just talked themselves into that idea

After some thought, I think you're right. I just looked up all time college hoops wins and Iowa is in the Top 40 and Michigan is not in the Top 100. I had no idea that Iowa was up there that much, but think it has to do with when their program began. Their all time win % is .587 which puts them at the bottom of the Top 50.

I'm just curious: what would it take in your opinion for a team to be termed a "blue blood?"

Maybe this would be the list?
UK--most wins
UCLA--most championships
UNC--most Final Fours
Duke--One of the best coaches for 25 years
Kansas--
Indiana--last undefeated season
Syracuse?