History Repeats. Is this April 1975?

guffus

Well-Known Member
If history really is repeating itself, maybe some good will come of it. Vietnam was strongly affected by the American troops even though they ultimately pulled out.

American troops were in Afghanistan for 20 years. Hopefully they conducted themselves respectfully and ethically. Young Afghans may remember that and be influenced by that when it is their time to take over.
 

Luftgekuehlt67

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else getting the sinking feeling our politicians are essentially self interested morons who serve at the behest of a small cadre of hyper wealthy individuals and corporations? Well, that is if "individuals" and "corporations" are still two separate concepts. I can probably just start saying "the hyper wealthy".

Watching a country with a government this incompetent but with a defense budget so large is like being stuck, handcuffed, in the parking lot while you watch a 4 year old with a loaded, unsafed handgun walk into a busy shopping mall.
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else getting the sinking feeling our politicians are essentially self interested morons who serve at the behest of a small cadre of hyper wealthy individuals and corporations? Well, that is if "individuals" and "corporations" are still two separate concepts. I can probably just start saying "the hyper wealthy".

Watching a country with a government this incompetent but with a defense budget so large is like being stuck, handcuffed, in the parking lot while you watch a 4 year old with a loaded, unsafed handgun walk into a busy shopping mall.
It's really interesting listening to the left and right placing blame. The war in my mind was always about money flow.

I'm guessing their is an oil flow deal in this a somewhere.
 

okeefe4prez

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else getting the sinking feeling our politicians are essentially self interested morons who serve at the behest of a small cadre of hyper wealthy individuals and corporations?

Nah, what would make you think that? Was it the time the Uniparty ran two candidates who both demanded NAFTA? Or was it 30+ years of the Uniparty saying "We're gonna be tough on immigration" and then never doing anything about it? Or was it the time when the Uniparty "reformed" bankruptcy laws to turn the government into a debt collection arm of big banks who made bad loans? Or the time when the Uniparty tossed out $700 billion under TARP? Or the time when the Uniparty introduced a mandate that everyone had to buy health insurance and then premiums skyrocketed?

Don't worry, buddy. Good guys are in control now. They have your best interests in mind.
 

okeefe4prez

Well-Known Member
It's really interesting listening to the left and right placing blame. The war in my mind was always about money flow.

I'm guessing their is an oil flow deal in this a somewhere.

I don't think there are any economically viable oil reserves in Afghanistan.
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else getting the sinking feeling our politicians are essentially self interested morons who serve at the behest of a small cadre of hyper wealthy individuals and corporations? Well, that is if "individuals" and "corporations" are still two separate concepts. I can probably just start saying "the hyper wealthy".

Watching a country with a government this incompetent but with a defense budget so large is like being stuck, handcuffed, in the parking lot while you watch a 4 year old with a loaded, unsafed handgun walk into a busy shopping mall.

"Getting the sinking feeling" or confirming what we've always known about politicians?
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
I don't think there are any economically viable oil reserves in Afghanistan.
That is true. However, Iran is the biggest threat to the gas/oil industry and a destabilized Afghanistan impacts that. Iran is a threat to US interests in Iraq. Ultimately, the Ukrainian War, US destabilization of Syria is all related. Remember that Trump has ties to Russia. Russia has no other game for survival. Remember that Biden has connections to Burisma, which was developing the Donbas area of Ukraine. Bush had tight gas/oil connections. Trumps female Supreme Court Justice had heavy connections to gas/oil.

Remember that the Malasian Airliner had a lot of Royal Dutch Shell families on board and was shot down shortly after Biden's son and John Kerry's financial advisor become directors of Burimsa.

Outide of Bin Ladin who wasn't in Afghanistan and lived in plain site in Pakistan, we had no business being there. The US could never occupy the country fully. However, this all happened way to quick to be coincidence.
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
Watching people falling off of airplanes is sickening. I was in Kyiv during major protests and took photos. Lot's of chanting, sign carrying and protesting. I talked to protestors who told me someone was paying people on both sides $60 per day to protest. In the chants they weren't angry protestors. Just like the Taliban soldier today shouting "Death to America" outside the embassy. Same demeanor. They weren't angry. We know the protests eventually became violent at the Maidan in downtown Kyiv which I know very well. At the protests there were the Ukrainian Nationalists and pro Russian's.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
It's really interesting listening to the left and right placing blame. The war in my mind was always about money flow.

I'm guessing their is an oil flow deal in this a somewhere.
I don't think there are any economically viable oil reserves in Afghanistan.
Oil isn't an issue anymore.

It definitely was when dealing with Iraq in the early 2000s, and it was a motivator for occupation at that time, but not now.

With the field and rigs established up north we've got that base covered. People like to retort that the oil boom isn't happening anymore up there and they are correct, but that's not the point. At all.

The point is that the infrastructure is there now (and it's being maintained), paid for with what production does come out of there. So even if you're running at 10% capacity, we have tipped the scales in our favor which is evidenced by OPEC squirming in it's chair back in 2017-19. They finally figured out that their days of putting the screws to North America (with oil, anyway) are over. We're the biggest oil producer in the world now, not them.

Once the oil fields got up and running the price fell, and when OPEC saw it they said, "we'll show you fuckers." They cranked up supply and drove the price of oil down to where it was too cheap to produce here so we quit pumping. And we called their bluff, which is A-OK because the infrastructure is there. The expensive part is done. OPEC wants to shut the faucet off and drive up prices? We'll turn ours back on. If you ask me, it's enough of a national security issue that we should be using taxes to maintain oil pumping infrastructure instead of bailing out 9 figure corporations, but I digress.

Don't get me wrong...The Saudis were in the game long enough that they don't have to worry about oil anymore. They've got enough money to get into every other racket (which they are), and that poses it's own set of issues. Iran and its buddies however, they needed oil money and without the US to buy M.E. oil and keep prices up they're in trouble. That's going to cause us a few problems down the road in foreign relations, but domestically we have no real issues. All in all, when you exclude the M.E. oil is pretty much just a domestic security issue. Russia has enough for themselves and enough leftover to sell to Europe and keep things calm. We have enough for ourselves when it's needed and our storage is full.

But the M.E. has too much and not enough market for anyone but the Saudis, so at some point their frustration with that is gonna cause a ruckus to boil over. But it won't be because we need their oil.
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
Oil isn't an issue anymore.

It definitely was when dealing with Iraq in the early 2000s, and it was a motivator for occupation at that time, but not now.

With the field and rigs established up north we've got that base covered. People like to retort that the oil boom isn't happening anymore up there and they are correct, but that's not the point. At all.

The point is that the infrastructure is there now (and it's being maintained), paid for with what production does come out of there. So even if you're running at 10% capacity, we have tipped the scales in our favor which is evidenced by OPEC squirming in it's chair back in 2017-19. They finally figured out that their days of putting the screws to North America (with oil, anyway) are over. We're the biggest oil producer in the world now, not them.

Once the oil fields got up and running the price fell, and when OPEC saw it they said, "we'll show you fuckers." They cranked up supply and drove the price of oil down to where it was too cheap to produce here so we quit pumping. And we called their bluff, which is A-OK because the infrastructure is there. The expensive part is done. OPEC wants to shut the faucet off and drive up prices? We'll turn ours back on. If you ask me, it's enough of a national security issue that we should be using taxes to maintain oil pumping infrastructure instead of bailing out 9 figure corporations, but I digress.

Don't get me wrong...The Saudis were in the game long enough that they don't have to worry about oil anymore. They've got enough money to get into every other racket (which they are), and that poses it's own set of issues. Iran and its buddies however, they needed oil money and without the US to buy M.E. oil and keep prices up they're in trouble. That's going to cause us a few problems down the road in foreign relations, but domestically we have no real issues. All in all, when you exclude the M.E. oil is pretty much just a domestic security issue. Russia has enough for themselves and enough leftover to sell to Europe and keep things calm. We have enough for ourselves when it's needed and our storage is full.

But the M.E. has too much and not enough market for anyone but the Saudis, so at some point their frustration with that is gonna cause a ruckus to boil over. But it won't be because we need their oil.
I get what you are thinking, but Russian is only kept alive by an outdated industry and that dying industry has a lot of US political clout. Your assessment of Russia is correct, except the US doesn't want Russia to supply Europe with gas/oil. That will come from the middle east and Ukraine hence the connection. Agree about Corps, but there is such international connectedness. The Bidens were working for Royal DUTCH Shell in Ukraine. Shell was going to be overseeing the Donbas production.

Russia orchestrated the crushing of the Ukrainian Army (the US told the Ukrainians not to fall for the trap (Never trust the Russian's promising safe passage) out of the encirclement. Then the Ukrainian militia's with Swastikas as shoulder patches with US soldiers guiding them smashed the Russian's at Mariupol which is why things died down. The US also clobbered the Russian's in Syria. Just wait and see how this all pans out. It will be interesting times.
 

uihawk82

Well-Known Member
I don't think there are any economically viable oil reserves in Afghanistan.

The oil doesnt have to be in Afghan. to make some global oil deal. And I have heard there are large lithium deposits in Afghan. and if that is the case then the US should have helped put in an actual elected govt in Afghan. and then helped that govt extract some lithium to make money for their population.
 

uihawk82

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else getting the sinking feeling our politicians are essentially self interested morons who serve at the behest of a small cadre of hyper wealthy individuals and corporations? Well, that is if "individuals" and "corporations" are still two separate concepts. I can probably just start saying "the hyper wealthy".

Watching a country with a government this incompetent but with a defense budget so large is like being stuck, handcuffed, in the parking lot while you watch a 4 year old with a loaded, unsafed handgun walk into a busy shopping mall.

You mean that sinking feeling that Pres Eisenhower described as the military-industrial complex. The overall idea of America is great with its democracy and freedoms but much of the Constitution and our laws thereafter are about property rights, money and ownership as much as freedom of speech.

Money is the main thing that powers America and there are a lot of crooks in politics, industry, finance, etc. Who do you think most of the federal tax scofflaws are but none other than the really rich who just plain cheat.

this country is upside down in its priorities for sure and you are right on all counts
 
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