Has anyone heard any recent recruiting news Cayden Daughtry?

[NorthKCHawk]

I don't know that Ben is a better offensive coach than Fran. We'll see, but Fran set a high bar on that front and his offenses consistently ranked high nationally in pts/game.

As we all know, Fran's blind spot was defense and his stubborn refusal to hire a defensive coach and admit his own shortcomings in that area. And as the cliche goes, defenses win ________________ .....well, you know.

What makes a good offensive coach can be belied by general offensive statistics. A guy like Fran likes to push pace and allow his players to take early shots. Then, the defense is generally soft and can give up early shots as well. So, the fact that Fran plays fast and his teams give up a lot of points will lead to Fran's team scoring a lot of points. That doesn't necessarily make Fran a good offensive coach, but rather his teams just have a good deal more opportunities to score.

To me, offensive efficiency is a much better measure of coaching than total point volume. AI said this: "Northwest Missouri State ranked as the #1 team in Division II offensive efficiency for six consecutive seasons."

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Dude has blown up like no other. 247 has him as the 3rd overall recruit now. Allen Iverson is about the only player that can be compared to him. How a 6' 155 lbs kid can dominate in such a way is crazy impressive. I'm hoping Iowa can land him but pretty much every program out there would love to throw him a bag larger then we can offer. So far Iowa's the only visit he has scheduled (Iowa state game) but I expect he'll be lining up more soon enough.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Dude has blown up like no other. 247 has him as the 3rd overall recruit now. Allen Iverson is about the only player that can be compared to him. How a 6' 155 lbs kid can dominate in such a way is crazy impressive. I'm hoping Iowa can land him but pretty much every program out there would love to throw him a bag larger then we can offer. So far Iowa's the only visit he has scheduled (Iowa state game) but I expect he'll be lining up more soon enough.

Again, how do you know that? I understand we like to think of Iowa as this scrappy outsider unable to compete with the blue bloods, but if Iowa truly is not competitive with the blue bloods in today's modern NIL era, why is a kid like this even talking to us? The world has changed. Iowa has Big 10 money, Beth and the donors have committed to providing the funds to make Iowa competitive financially, and The House Settlement and oversight committee have theoretically evened the playing field.

The other thing to consider is the rest of the team. We paid a bag for McKeever. I am sure we have sweetened the pot for Koch. But beyond that, most of the rest of the team are Drake/Illinois State laterals or recent high school additions. We don't have 4 McDonalds All-Americans to pay like Duke.

 

[haydensly]

Again, how do you know that? I understand we like to think of Iowa as this scrappy outsider unable to compete with the blue bloods, but if Iowa truly is not competitive with the blue bloods in today's modern NIL era, why is a kid like this even talking to us? The world has changed. Iowa has Big 10 money, Beth and the donors have committed to providing the funds to make Iowa competitive financially, and The House Settlement and oversight committee have theoretically evened the playing field.

The other thing to consider is the rest of the team. We paid a bag for McKeever. I am sure we have sweetened the pot for Koch. But beyond that, most of the rest of the team are Drake/Illinois State laterals or recent high school additions. We don't have 4 McDonalds All-Americans to pay like Duke.

I'm just not sure the playing field is a level as you think it is. Different sport but in football, after hosting a number of recruits in early June, we lost out on a good number of them. One of the reasons cited that I've seen is that we were not able to offer the same financial package as some other schools.

And I don't trust that the measures taken have done enough to make every team at our level equal, or even close to it. And I certainly don't trust that there won't be schools out there looking for loopholes to get around the rules.

In this case though, I certainly hope that you are correct.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Interesting. Although a cousin (maybe second cousin even?) who played a different sport a quarter of a century ago at the school doesn't seem like it would have much impact.

Maybe not a huge impact but it doesn't hurt. It certainly eliminates the "Iowa?" angle. If he has any contact with them I'm sure they've said it's a great place to play and they loved it here. Banks still drew a standing O at the recent Savannah Bananas game 20+ years later

 

[Westernhawk]

What makes a good offensive coach can be belied by general offensive statistics. A guy like Fran likes to push pace and allow his players to take early shots. Then, the defense is generally soft and can give up early shots as well. So, the fact that Fran plays fast and his teams give up a lot of points will lead to Fran's team scoring a lot of points. That doesn't necessarily make Fran a good offensive coach, but rather his teams just have a good deal more opportunities to score.

To me, offensive efficiency is a much better measure of coaching than total point volume. AI said this: "Northwest Missouri State ranked as the #1 team in Division II offensive efficiency for six consecutive seasons."

I think this is spot on. I think Fran was a decent offensive coach, but ppg doesn't mean much if you lose 105-102. Lots of opportunities to score for all!

 

[Westernhawk]

Maybe not a huge impact but it doesn't hurt. It certainly eliminates the "Iowa?" angle. If he has any contact with them I'm sure they've said it's a great place to play and they loved it here. Banks still drew a standing O at the recent Savannah Bananas game 20+ years later

Hopefully the kid has a great visit and is won over by the hawkmania this fall.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I'm just not sure the playing field is a level as you think it is. Different sport but in football, after hosting a number of recruits in early June, we lost out on a good number of them. One of the reasons cited that I've seen is that we were not able to offer the same financial package as some other schools.

And I don't trust that the measures taken have done enough to make every team at our level equal, or even close to it. And I certainly don't trust that there won't be schools out there looking for loopholes to get around the rules.

In this case though, I certainly hope that you are correct.

Of course there are still some level of inequities in the process, but it is clearly better now that we can pay a reasonable amount of money to even things out with the cheaters from the SEC and Kansas who were always paying players.

I understand that some players may have not gone to Iowa FB because we did not offer as much. But, maybe KF did not value them as highly as others and maybe he wanted to invest more in his existing players staying. Iowa FB had one of the highest retention rates in the country. We can't draw from a few laterals saying others offered more than Iowa meaning that Iowa has less overall money to offer.

Again, I am sure there is still more dark money at Oregon, OSU, Texas AM, etc. I am not delusional. But, I know that the legal money that schools can pay players directly now is capped and Iowa pays the max out. And, on the dark money side, Ben's early success has probably gotten donor money commitments that can at least make Iowa competitive with select targets here and there. Again, Ben is only trying to buy one stud, not 4 like Kansas and Duke. All I know is that Iowa is clearly in the hunt, and this kid's agent would not be wasting his time talking to Iowa if there was no possibility Iowa could pay whatever his market rate is.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Again, how do you know that? I understand we like to think of Iowa as this scrappy outsider unable to compete with the blue bloods, but if Iowa truly is not competitive with the blue bloods in today's modern NIL era, why is a kid like this even talking to us? The world has changed. Iowa has Big 10 money, Beth and the donors have committed to providing the funds to make Iowa competitive financially, and The House Settlement and oversight committee have theoretically evened the playing field.

The other thing to consider is the rest of the team. We paid a bag for McKeever. I am sure we have sweetened the pot for Koch. But beyond that, most of the rest of the team are Drake/Illinois State laterals or recent high school additions. We don't have 4 McDonalds All-Americans to pay like Duke.

You noticed Alvaro is gone right? I'm sure we can offer the kid a nice bag. But if Uconn, Duke, Arkansas, Michigan etc etc all wanted to go all out we aren't gonna be able to match. Hopefully he prioritizes playing for Ben instead. That's our pitch we're selling. Play for Ben and he'll turn you into an all around great PG that'll be in the NBA soon. The kid is 6' 155ish so if he's gonna be an NBA player at any point he's gonna have to find the weight room and be special beyond belief much like Iverson was.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

You noticed Alvaro is gone right? I'm sure we can offer the kid a nice bag. But if Uconn, Duke, Arkansas, Michigan etc etc all wanted to go all out we aren't gonna be able to match. Hopefully he prioritizes playing for Ben instead. That's our pitch we're selling. Play for Ben and he'll turn you into an all around great PG that'll be in the NBA soon. The kid is 6' 155ish so if he's gonna be an NBA player at any point he's gonna have to find the weight room and be special beyond belief much like Iverson was.

Alvaro is gone because he valued himself more than Ben valued him and he found someone who would pay more. That is not to say that Iowa could not have paid him more money to keep him. He and Ben were, by most accounts, not a great fit. The kid did not prioritize defense and was not as coachable.

I am not saying there is an unlimited pot of gold for Ben. I strongly suspect that part of the reason Ben did not overpay Folg is that he knew he would need to have money to buy a center this year and a PG next year. There is only so much to go around.

I am making up numbers here, but if Iowa will only pay this stud PG a million, and Kansas will pay him 2 million, he is going to Kansas. Every blue blood program puts guys in the league, so Ben isn't selling what his competitors cannot. Ben can sell early minutes and not recruiting over the kid, and yes, a track record of getting non-NBA bodied PGs drafted in the first round. But, the money has to be competitive for those things to be determinative. Iowa would not be wasting its time, nor this kid and his agent wasting theirs, if there was not some belief both ways that the money from Iowa can be in the same vicinity as its competition.

 

[HuckFinn]

You noticed Alvaro is gone right? I'm sure we can offer the kid a nice bag. But if Uconn, Duke, Arkansas, Michigan etc etc all wanted to go all out we aren't gonna be able to match. Hopefully he prioritizes playing for Ben instead. That's our pitch we're selling. Play for Ben and he'll turn you into an all around great PG that'll be in the NBA soon. The kid is 6' 155ish so if he's gonna be an NBA player at any point he's gonna have to find the weight room and be special beyond belief much like Iverson was.

Yes. Alvaro is gone. Assuming it was a $$ issue, fine with me. He was not worth whatever we pd for him in the first place.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Alvaro is gone because he valued himself more than Ben valued him and he found someone who would pay more. That is not to say that Iowa could not have paid him more money to keep him. He and Ben were, by most accounts, not a great fit. The kid did not prioritize defense and was not as coachable.

I am not saying there is an unlimited pot of gold for Ben. I strongly suspect that part of the reason Ben did not overpay Folg is that he knew he would need to have money to buy a center this year and a PG next year. There is only so much to go around.

I am making up numbers here, but if Iowa will only pay this stud PG a million, and Kansas will pay him 2 million, he is going to Kansas. Every blue blood program puts guys in the league, so Ben isn't selling what his competitors cannot. Ben can sell early minutes and not recruiting over the kid, and yes, a track record of getting non-NBA bodied PGs drafted in the first round. But, the money has to be competitive for those things to be determinative. Iowa would not be wasting its time, nor this kid and his agent wasting theirs, if there was not some belief both ways that the money from Iowa can be in the same vicinity as its competition.

Well this Doughtry would be overlapping at least a yr with McKeever. Obviously Ben has to have the entire roster in mind when going after a big fish. Tate Sages price is going up probably significantly if he wants it to pretty soon. It's never ending. I hope we land the kid I really do. It's gonna be a tall task and the kid is gonna have to take a pay cut if he does. He just would

 

[NorthKCHawk]

AI says that a kid at this level, who probably is not a 1 and done, but is an elite college prospect, is probably in the 500k to 2 million dollar range. That seems about right. There is more and more focus on the transfer portal to the detriment of high school kids. I think Iowa can find low seven-figures to throw at this incredibly talented prospect. Couple that with a promise to start Day 1 and not recruit over the kid and you might be cooking. We just have to be in the ballpark on money.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Yes. Alvaro is gone. Assuming it was a $$ issue, fine with me. He was not worth whatever we pd for him in the first place.

Oh I think it was a money issue. For the right price you don't think Ben woulda wanted him back? I don't know what that number woulda been or how far from it they were but Louisville gave him a ton. One rumor I heard was 3 milly.

Granted with our roster as it sits losing him wasn't some huge insurmountable thing. Time will tell I suppose. But had he wanted to come back and the number was whatever Ben woulda been good with I think he woulda been back. Guess we'll never really know though

 

[BuiltLikeWilt]

Oh I think it was a money issue. For the right price you don't think Ben woulda wanted him back? I don't know what that number woulda been or how far from it they were but Louisville gave him a ton. One rumor I heard was 3 milly.

Granted with our roster as it sits losing him wasn't some huge insurmountable thing. Time will tell I suppose. But had he wanted to come back and the number was whatever Ben woulda been good with I think he woulda been back. Guess we'll never really know though

I think he was not all that wanted back, we have an ample amount stretch 3--4 guys that have years of eligibility and better potential, and used the Money on guy who can rebound and take up space. Good trade off in my opinion .

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I think he was not all that wanted back, we have an ample amount stretch 3--4 guys that have years of eligibility and better potential, and used the Money on guy who can rebound and take up space. Good trade off in my opinion .

By all accounts, Ben wanted him back, but wasn't willing to overpay to keep him given that he was not an ideal fit for his system. Let us not forget, the kid was isn't a starter for Iowa, mainly because his game did not align all that well with Ben's philosophy. As mentioned, given the breadth of forwards on Iowa's roster with similar skill sets, there was no guarantee he would start this season. You don't waste a third of your budget on a guy who might be coming off the bench! It was clear almost immediately after the season that an amicable departure was coming, and Folg would find a lot more money and PT elsewhere. But again, simply because Iowa did not want to overpay for Folg does not mean it cannot find competitive dollars to land an elite high school PG. If anything, it shows that Ben was saving his nickels for other players, and he said early and often in the off season that finding an elite high school PG for '27 was a priority.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

What makes a good offensive coach can be belied by general offensive statistics. A guy like Fran likes to push pace and allow his players to take early shots. Then, the defense is generally soft and can give up early shots as well. So, the fact that Fran plays fast and his teams give up a lot of points will lead to Fran's team scoring a lot of points. That doesn't necessarily make Fran a good offensive coach, but rather his teams just have a good deal more opportunities to score.

To me, offensive efficiency is a much better measure of coaching than total point volume. AI said this: "Northwest Missouri State ranked as the #1 team in Division II offensive efficiency for six consecutive seasons."

Excellent point & post. Ben's teams run a very efficient half court offense with pick & pops and efficient cutting. Seems to be more of a motion than what Fran ran and keeps the defense moving which should eventually brake down enough to get a good look.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Looking at the silver lining of this recruiting situation, If Iowa doesn't end up getting Daughtry, at least they were in the mix & conversation which can only help. They are at least in the game. Having the Stirtz and the run last year in the NCAA has undoubtedly helped. It's a foundation to build on.

He could come to Iowa and really shine for the next few yrs. An up and coming team. He could get more notice on an Iowa team than just another on a Kentucky or UConn. He could really stick out which would be his benefit. Also, people in Iowa really latch on, support and appreciate the stars. See Caitlin Clark, Bennett Stirtz. He could be the shit here, get paid and he'll have a shot at the NBA going here or anywhere anyway. This is my pitch to Cayden. Come here and you could be the man.

 

[Grady]

What makes a good offensive coach can be belied by general offensive statistics. A guy like Fran likes to push pace and allow his players to take early shots. Then, the defense is generally soft and can give up early shots as well. So, the fact that Fran plays fast and his teams give up a lot of points will lead to Fran's team scoring a lot of points. That doesn't necessarily make Fran a good offensive coach, but rather his teams just have a good deal more opportunities to score.

To me, offensive efficiency is a much better measure of coaching than total point volume. AI said this: "Northwest Missouri State ranked as the #1 team in Division II offensive efficiency for six consecutive seasons."

Perhaps. But if you confidentially asked each BTen coach and every coach from across the country who ever coached against Fran, I'm quite sure every single one of them would say that Fran is an excellent offensive coach. And I suspect any one of those coaches knows more about D-1 offensive hoops than all of us on this board combined.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Perhaps. But if you confidentially asked each BTen coach and every coach from across the country who ever coached against Fran, I'm quite sure every single one of them would say that Fran is an excellent offensive coach. And I suspect any one of those coaches knows more about D-1 offensive hoops than all of us on this board combined.

For sure Fran was a very good offensive coach. He was just attrocious at coaching defense.

Compare that to McCollum who is an ELITE defensive coach, and at least at lower levels, was also an elite offensive coach in the way that offensive success is best measured.

This is why one guy has won natties and made it to the Elite 8, and the other has taken 5 teams to the Dance but never made it out of the first weekend. Both are great basketball coaches, but Ben McCollum is simply on a whole other level compared to Fran.