Halftime and Pregame Shows Are Not This Important, Folks...

[Fryowa]

Fry....I'm gonna have to counter you on this one a bit. Not about anything specific to this weekend. I just mean in general. I do agree that most people don't really care. BUT.....I think people can and do care. And more people do now, than before.

I'm not a native, so I knew nothing about Iowa or the Hawks until I started as a freshman in '89.
I always thought HMB was pretty meh. I'm a proponent of marching bands in that it's always been part of the fabric of college football, etc. The fight song, On Iowa, and In Heaven There Is No Beer....are pretty significant parts of my (and many others) Hawkeye football experience. I was a band kid for 2 years in high school. Hated it. But it's better than stuff they do at NFL games or the complete horsecrap they do constantly at MLB games that are just disguised advertisements. But, the HMB always seemed like, as a band, it was substandard relative to the standard of the football product and for sure, the university as a whole. Not bad, mind you. Just not on par with the relative prestige of the university and football program. Just "meh", for lack of anything better.

But, this new director they have? They've gone outright viral with the Metallica challenge (they got robbed, should have won). They went viral with the Caitlin Clark tribute. And recently again appearing at the end of the Music Man production at Hancher. And in smaller ways they've gone viral on my algorithm in ways they never used to with some other things they do. In short, I think in the last few years, they've made major leaps and are now on par with what their platform makes available. In fact, they are now sitting at that tier that's just below OSU or USC in terms of status amongst university bands. And I think that's damn cool. And if they can keep it up, their value to the day increases.

Doesn't mean they can't address some things or that we can't live without 'em if the environment isn't conducive.

I just wanna stick up for the HMB. Because they've caught my eye about 100 times in the last several years, when I barely even noticed them or thought about them between say 1989 and 2020.

My viewpoint is that the reason for the event is a football game. A football game can still take place without a band, technically without anything not needed for a football game.

If it's a band competition and they determine it can be done safely, take precautions, etc...that's a different story. The number of people who go to Kinnick on a Saturday simply to see the spirit squad or band (I'm sure there are some like my buddy's wife who doesn't like football), is infinitesimal.

Why not invite everyone at halftime who wants to see the band perform to come to the rec center where it's climate controlled if it's a million degrees out and a dew point of 75? Good for the goose and the gander.

 

[Fryowa]

And for the record I'm not saying anyone was intentionally negligent or forced kids to march at gun point. Not at all. But when you have temps and humidity like this you gotta do something before kids start puking. That's why I'm suggesting having a set policy. It takes the human decision making and ambiguity out of it.

 

[Fryowa]

In fact, they are now sitting at that tier that's just below OSU or USC in terms of status amongst university bands. And I think that's damn cool. And if they can keep it up, their value to the day increases.

Skipping one halftime show isn't gonna ruin that. There's maybe 2-3 potential super hot dates on the schedule and I can't remember a time where it was that hot 2-3 weekends in a row.

 

[haydensly]

I am in no way comparing my post below to the comments on the band. Only a perspective.

My seats are in the north endzone in row 13, so right down on the field. No shade. No breeze. Shorts and T shirt, broad brim hat, sunscreen, couple of bottles of water. End of first quarter. Did the wave.
Decided to walk up the steps to the concourse, maybe return, maybe not. After about 10 minutes, I left the stadium and by halftime, I was able to get a golf cart ride to my Lot 75 .
The stadium was quickly emptying out in droves, including the band. I stay in CR, so headed to Scores sports bar and watched the rest of the game on tv.

This is the only time in two decades I have left early. Like, never. I handle heat very well. Lots of hot days in my fishing ventures. It was hot beyond belief. I just did not feel safe.

I sit in the West stands and was in the shade all day. Thankfully. I kept looking down towards where you were sitting and kept thinking that I could never last down there. Good choice to get out when you did.

I was hot but not unbearably hot sitting in the shade. But even at that, we left late in the third quarter.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

You are entitled to opinion, Fry, but again, you are taking an isolated tragedy and trying to make an exclusionary rule only as to that specific group moving forward. The kid died in the stands. Should we ban the fans if its over 95? What if Hawkeye Elvis was there and keeled over? Do we ban costumes? How about hoodies? Those can be dangerous on a hot day.

What happened to this kid could have happened to anyone in the stands or on the field if they have a bad heart to begin with. The fact that this kid happened to be in the band doesn't mean we get rid of the band because you don't deem the band essential or whatever word you used. Everyone, be they players, coaches, fans, refs, TV operators, band members, cheerleaders, etc who was there on Saturday needed to hydrate and take precautions because of the heat. I don't think the band should be singled out because it was their kid with the bad ticker.

 

[Fryowa]

You are entitled to opinion, Fry, but again, you are taking an isolated tragedy and trying to make an exclusionary rule only as to that specific group moving forward. The kid died in the stands. Should we ban the fans if its over 95? What if Hawkeye Elvis was there and keeled over? Do we ban costumes? How about hoodies? Those can be dangerous on a hot day.

What happened to this kid could have happened to anyone in the stands or on the field if they have a bad heart to begin with. The fact that this kid happened to be in the band doesn't mean we get rid of the band because you don't deem the band essential or whatever word you used. Everyone, be they players, coaches, fans, refs, TV operators, band members, cheerleaders, etc who was there on Saturday needed to hydrate and take precautions because of the heat. I don't think the band should be singled out because it was their kid with the bad ticker.

Again, more hyperbole. Should we get rid of the HS temp rules for sports because that’s a risk you take? HS kids have died in heat related incidents and that’s why they made those rules—are they bogus? Honest question. The band members aren’t paying fans that can just walk away at anytime with no repercussions

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Again, more hyperbole. Should we get rid of the HS temp rules for sports because that’s a risk you take? HS kids have died in heat related incidents and that’s why they made those rules—are they bogus? Honest question. The band members aren’t paying fans that can just walk away at anytime with no repercussions

I usually follow your arguments pretty well even when I don't agree with them, but I am struggling to see your position on this one. That's okay. We all agree this was a terrible tragedy and that prayers for the kid, family and his band family are in order. I think where we differ is that I don't think we should overreact to one tragic death.

 

[Hawkboys]

Definitely will be a lawsuit and maybe there should be.

Sad to say but almost every safety rule in the world is written in blood.

What's crazy is that there is a very visible progress from overheated to heat exhaustion to heat stroke. Somebody(s) ignore all sorts of signs.

 

[gjhawk]

I’m all for rules and regulations that concern the safety of our kids. That being said, I don’t think we should overreact to a tragedy until we know all the facts. Although heat more than likely was a contributing factor what about other complications. We all know that alcohol will dehydrate you. Was he partying the night before the game and didn’t rehydrate himself that morning? Did he have a heart condition unknown to anyone? Maybe just a terrible storm of factors that led to this tragedy. Let’s get all the information before we make wholesale changes and decisions.

 

[BuiltLikeWilt]

My viewpoint is that the reason for the event is a football game. A football game can still take place without a band, technically without anything not needed for a football game.

If it's a band competition and they determine it can be done safely, take precautions, etc...that's a different story. The number of people who go to Kinnick on a Saturday simply to see the spirit squad or band (I'm sure there are some like my buddy's wife who doesn't like football), is infinitesimal.

Why not invite everyone at halftime who wants to see the band perform to come to the rec center where it's climate controlled if it's a million degrees out and a dew point of 75? Good for the goose and the gander.

Well for most band members this is like what they went to college for (maybe on scollie ) to play in a marching band and to play at IOWA games or any other university and pursue their instrument just like the athletes of course no NIL . This is a one off

 

[longtimer]

This is a terrible tragedy. But to be clear, they did not play at halftime. This happened in the stands.

Wasn’t there by design. But I understood they did not play at halftime. As bad as it was for Band and fans imagine playing in those conditions. I agree not necessary to have band perform but kid it had been a player would we be suggesting to cancel games???

 

[Chickenlounge]

I usually follow your arguments pretty well even when I don't agree with them, but I am struggling to see your position on this one. That's okay. We all agree this was a terrible tragedy and that prayers for the kid, family and his band family are in order. I think where we differ is that I don't think we should overreact to one tragic death.

 

[dagdaj]

These are my ultimate conclusions.
(And I don't think anyone is doing this here, even remotely close to it.)

1. We don't need to second guess, or even first guess. The University, band, and any lawyers for the family will do any second guessing. (Again, I don't see anyone doing it here)

2. We don't need to come up with any solutions or changes. The University, the band, and insurance companies will do that. Even beyond insurance/liability concerns....nobody wants to see anybody die. We don't need all the damn virtue signalling by the performative good people. They will address it. We don't need to figure out the solution. We don't have the knowledge. (Again, I don't see anyone doing any of this. Even Fry isn't suggesting anything specific. He's stating a fact. Even if I disagree with the underlying premise, you can't argue his fact. And his fact makes no demands. The idea of Fry being a virtue signaler? Hahahahahaha. Not a chance.).

3. They should remove the decals for Saturday's game. I believe this firmly. Whether our Fry buys into it or not.....whether the band does anything for you or not, they are part of the fabric of both college football and Hawkeye football. It would be appropriate to remove the decals.

 

[Fryowa]

These are my ultimate conclusions.
(And I don't think anyone is doing this here, even remotely close to it.)

1. We don't need to second guess, or even first guess. The University, band, and any lawyers for the family will do any second guessing. (Again, I don't see anyone doing it here)

2. We don't need to come up with any solutions or changes. The University, the band, and insurance companies will do that. Even beyond insurance/liability concerns....nobody wants to see anybody die. We don't need all the damn virtue signalling by the performative good people. They will address it. We don't need to figure out the solution. We don't have the knowledge. (Again, I don't see anyone doing any of this. Even Fry isn't suggesting anything specific. He's stating a fact. Even if I disagree with the underlying premise, you can't argue his fact. And his fact makes no demands. The idea of Fry being a virtue signaler? Hahahahahaha. Not a chance.).

3. They should remove the decals for Saturday's game. I believe this firmly. Whether our Fry buys into it or not.....whether the band does anything for you or not, they are part of the fabric of both college football and Hawkeye football. It would be appropriate to remove the decals.

I absolutely believe the bands are part of the fabric of college football. They work their asses off. They do things that I could not do in a million years. My best friend's daughter and my neice are both HMB members.

All I was trying to say is the band/cheer squad is (was) not prepared to deal with that kind of heat index. It's not just the heat, it's the humidity in combination. Dew points of 75 with a turf temp of 110 are dangerous, period. As you also said, I don't have an exact criteria, but I do think there should be something put in place that says "At XYZ heat index point, here's our plan." That way we have zero pressure to continue on when we shouldn't, no hem-hawing, no people faced with a "what do we do?" scenario, no ambiguity. They don't have shade, ice, misters, an A/C'd locker room, and trainers/staff like the football team does.

I also think there should be a no questions asked, no consequences policy if you feel like you're not comfortable being out there. It should be explicitly stated. Maybe there is...I don't know. I do know from talking to my friend's daughter there were lots of band members who didn't want to be there after the initial practice that morning. Kids were feeling sick by then because it was miserable. Kids can also be dumb sometimes and try to tough things out when maybe they shouldn't. A go/no-go policy would help that issue somewhat. DISCLAIMER: that statement is not me saying any of the HMB staff pressured them into staying or said they'd get dinged for leaving. I didn't ask that question and I'm not going to. I'm making ZERO accusations towards HMB leadership. None. I know they feel like absolute shit that this happened to one of their kids.

Look, it isn't like this happens every year, but most years there's one hum-dinger of a hot game. All I'm saying is be smart. Tell the performers to speak up if they feel like crap and give them the hassle-free option to bail to the rec center if they choose. Make sure they have a plan, and that plan should include a limit like they have in high school sports across the entire country.

Again...is it going to be 100% fool proof and can it still happen? No, and yes. But it's better than nothing.

To your last point...I hope like hell they do something significant and respectful to recognize this young gentleman and the HMB during the game. I have no doubt they will.

 

[Fryowa]

Wasn’t there by design. But I understood they did not play at halftime. As bad as it was for Band and fans imagine playing in those conditions. I agree not necessary to have band perform but kid it had been a player would we be suggesting to cancel games???

Northern Illinois game was above the wet bulb temp threshold that Iowa high schools use and would not have taken place. Not saying should/should not have taken place, just stating a fact.

Iowa high schools also play at night so it's not usually that hot by then. Every game in NW Iowa last Friday had mandatory hydration breaks.

Maybe the Hawks game should've been moved to after dark. Maybe the Sept home non-cons should all be under the lights just in case. Lots of maybes.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Skipping one halftime show isn't gonna ruin that. There's maybe 2-3 potential super hot dates on the schedule and I can't remember a time where it was that hot 2-3 weekends in a row.

Especially the very first game against a directional school. As of odds, the first two games will games that have the best chance of being a scorcher with high dew points, to. With extreme temps/weather situations, I like your earlier idea of maybe having the band record a presentation (game worthy performance) and showing it on the Tron at half-time.

Too bad Iowa doesn't have the Tron Illinois has now!

 

[dagdaj]

I absolutely believe the bands are part of the fabric of college football. They work their asses off. They do things that I could not do in a million years. My best friend's daughter and my neice are both HMB members.

All I was trying to say is the band/cheer squad is (was) not prepared to deal with that kind of heat index.....

I'm with ya man. I admit I was a bit...I dunno....'defensive' regarding your initial comments. Only because for whatever reason, I've actually paid attention and cared about the band for the last few years. Because I think they are starting punch in the weight class the school is in these last few years. But as I've watched the internet do what the internet do, it is way easier to see and read the nuance in your post. That's why I said you weren't doing what the internet does. You never virtue signaled. Virtue signal isn't exactly your schtick.

You didn't 2nd guess. You didn't try to prove you're a better person and virtue signal with demands for change. The rest of the internet is doing that.

All you ever said, is...."they don't have to be there"
You didn't even say they shouldn't be there. You just said they have options.

I'm just bitching about the rest of the internet. Which is why I continually profess my love for this place.
It isn't like the internet.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I’m all for rules and regulations that concern the safety of our kids. That being said, I don’t think we should overreact to a tragedy until we know all the facts. Although heat more than likely was a contributing factor what about other complications. We all know that alcohol will dehydrate you. Was he partying the night before the game and didn’t rehydrate himself that morning? Did he have a heart condition unknown to anyone? Maybe just a terrible storm of factors that led to this tragedy. Let’s get all the information before we make wholesale changes and decisions.

This. I go back to the odds. There have been tens of thousands of players, band members, fans that have gone to Kinnick and in inclement weather. The vegas odds are unfortunately going to come to the surface at some point, and that's what happen last Saturday.

With many being older and with comorbid conditions attending the game Saturday, one would think there would have been more casualties. I have heard now it seems there are a number that did get ill including many who had to be carried up or down the stairs in Kinnick to get help.

What an unfortunate incident.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Wasn’t there by design. But I understood they did not play at halftime. As bad as it was for Band and fans imagine playing in those conditions. I agree not necessary to have band perform but kid it had been a player would we be suggesting to cancel games???

In addition, I understand the band members were in shorts and T-shirts. So, they didn't have their bulky hot uniforms on.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Northern Illinois game was above the wet bulb temp threshold that Iowa high schools use and would not have taken place. Not saying should/should not have taken place, just stating a fact.

Iowa high schools also play at night so it's not usually that hot by then. Every game in NW Iowa last Friday had mandatory hydration breaks.

Maybe the Hawks game should've been moved to after dark. Maybe the Sept home non-cons should all be under the lights just in case. Lots of maybes.

Unfortunately, there are so many TV/broadcasting games and schedules now, that will never happen. They can't just easily move games.

I have a son who plays at Iowa Western. Last Saturday, they moved the game from 1:00 to 10:00 for this reason. They have the option to do this sec to just the teams streaming on their sites for viewing.

The big boys don't have this option with all the broadcasting compaines.